Manual Hub/year/spline Information

[Slartibartfast]

 

I haven't heard of that issue before. Maybe they were designed to fit later trucks that didn't come with auto hubs? I don't know if the R50 spindles have those castellations or not. I imagine you could get away with grinding the spindle so long as you keep the shavings out of the wheel bearing. Does the snap ring look like it'll line up if the hub is seated the rest of the way? It would suck to modify the spindle just to find out that something else is wrong with them.

 

I don't know of a source of new auto hubs, but the last time I checked (which was at least five years ago), new clutches to rebuild them were still available from Nissan. IIRC they were similar in cost to the manual hubs I wanted, so I just bought the manuals instead. Even when they worked how they were supposed to, the autos were more of a hassle than they were supposed to save.

 

There's a writeup here with info on four different manual hubs (no idea if they're available/affordable down under). The hubs in your picture look a lot like the Rugged Ridge hubs Hawairish reviewed. In that thread, I linked to an old video I did when I installed my Mile Marker 435s, which also shows the setup I used to modify the hubcaps to fit. I don't know if the earlier style of hubcap has the convenient ring to run the router bearing around, though, so you may need to get creative there. 

 

I think the 435s stick out slightly more than the auto hubs did. Hasn't been an issue for me. 

[Terrano1991]

Great writeup about hubs Slartibartfast!

My theory is that those castellations at the ends of spindles are to engage automatic hubs. It will take a disassembly to cut them off; I don't need dust in moving parts.

You convinced me to return the FWH011 and get one FWH012. Will need to get 6 high-tense bolts though. Of course it will also pose problem of removing dirt from all its recesses when going through mud, and will be more prone to rust. As for reliability, searching for hubs I came across an opinion that you are better off with the hub being the weakest link in the transmission. Of course it will be nasty if it breaks on a steep slope.

 

Hubs I've seen all appear to be made in China. They will put any name on them for an extra dollar. Nameless hubs are plentiful at Aliexpress, but only 2 kinds I already know.

 

Do you think I need a snap ring? I thought it was exclusivemy for the automatic hub business. I may be wrong?

[hawairish]

The R50s don't have those castellations, but I've seen them on Xterra spindles.  There's mating ring that goes on, then the snap ring.  I'm not sure that's the problem though.  I wouldn't cut the castellations because you still need some spacer for the inner snap ring.  You'd have to use the 1st style so that you could still attach the snap ring to something, but not sure it's advisable to only use the outer snap ring land.

 

That ring washer doesn't look like the newer ones I've seen because of the way it has recesses for the screw, but more specifically the ring seems thicker and may be why the hub doesn't sit flush.

 

Quote

 

Finding proper bolts in city of hipsters is not as easy as may seem to US dwellers.

 

 

Sydney doesn't have the internet or access to metric bolts?  Upgrading to socket bolts was the way to go for me, but you can probably get studs and nuts for a R50 drive flange out there and use them on yours for the 1st style of hubs.  P/N here is 01151-00271 for the studs, and 08911-6081A for the nuts.  Appears to same for European and Japanese Terranos.  Need 12 of each.

[hawairish]

4 minutes ago, Terrano1991 said:

Do you think I need a snap ring?

 

Def need a snap ring.  At minimum the inner snap ring.  It's what keeps the CV shaft in the spindle.  Only time I've seen the outer ring land used is when the hub or drive flange has it accessible.  Not sure what extra insurance it actually affords.

[Terrano1991]

I wonder if anyone could share a picture of a spindle of Terrano that had factory manual hubs. Just to see difference in snap rings locations (if any) and how it looks without those castellations.

[Slartibartfast]

You do need that snap ring. It retains the axle and keeps the back side of the wheel bearing sealed. It does not however stay in that inner groove when you switch to manual hubs. For the auto hubs, the snap ring goes in the inner groove, capturing the inner workings of the hub (the cup, the coppery looking deal, and the splined washer in front of that). If you're running manual hubs, the snap ring goes in the outer groove, capturing a larger part of the mechanism (the whole body on aftermarket hubs, or just the drive clutch on the factory style). 

 

If you're trying to fit the manual hub with the snap ring still sitting in the inner groove, that's probably what's stopping you. Remove the snap ring, remove the dial assembly from the hub, install the hub, install the snap ring, make sure it's actually snapped in and not just sitting next to its groove (might need to reach around and pull the axle towards you while you push the snap ring home), and then reinstall the dial. Check the torque on the hub bolts after driving it for a bit, especially if the hub has a paper gasket, as those tend to compress after a bit.

 

The service manual wants you to check endplay on the CV after installing the snap ring. Should be 0.1-0.3mm (4-12 thou). If it's wrong, you can replace the snap ring with one of a different thickness to dial it in. The manual also wants you to replace the snap ring each time you take it off. I didn't do either of those things, and I don't think many people do, but, yeah, there is a spec for that. I assume it keeps the seal at the back of the hub tight enough to do its job but not so tight that it burns up.

 

WD21s aren't usually powerful enough to hurt themselves (at least not the drivetrain), but from what I've read, it is usually a hub that lets go if anything does. I've seen one picture of a broken CV shaft (wasn't even the joint that failed, the shaft itself snapped off), but that was on a heavily-wheeled truck with a hotrod VG34 and the factory manual hubs, which are supposed to be the strongest you can get for these. I doubt you will have that problem with Ali Express hubs and what I'm guessing is a TD27 or a carb'd four-pot. 

[adamzan]

Like Slartibartfast said you need to remove the face of the hub first, then slide it on, and the snap ring goes on the outer groove on the stub shaft, vs the inner groove with auto hubs.

 

 

Then it will look like this once on and you can put the snap ring back.

 

This is from an Xterra board, but it is the exact same process (I own a wd21 and a wd22).

 

https://www.clubxterra.org/threads/how-to-replacing-stock-auto-locking-hubs-with-manual-locking-hubs.8356/

[Terrano1991]

Thank you for the advice my Northern brothers!

I was wondering why that hub is coming with those 2 thin bolts fitted and the rest enclosed?

Will order the hubs today and keep you posted.

[Terrano1991]

Finally had time to fit the ordered hub. It took some peruasion for the shaft to show the groove for the snap ring, but that worked. Now need to get a new 27mm snap rings and should be good to go. Any opinions on snap ringa are welcome.

Can't attach any image. This site tells me I exceeded 2.809kB.
 

[Slartibartfast]

I reused my old snap rings. 

 

The picture upload here isn't really functional--best to host pictures elsewhere and link them in.