Precise1 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 The GF just came home and can't get the ignition key out of the cylinder. It withdraws 2/3-3/4 of the way then stops. There is plenty of side to side (across the blade direction) motion; I can move it in at least a 30 degree arc that way and there is some lateral play also but nothing out of the norm. I've messed with it for 10 minutes, played with the shifter position (auto tranny), blown the tumbler cylinder out with compressed air, worked the key back and forth, in and out, etc and there has been 0 change. It resists removal with an estimated 20-25 lbs pull. I can't see anything with a flashlight... My two thoughts are that some tumblers are stuck/can't be retracted or something with the shifter linkage not disengaging the ignition lock completely. Any experiences or ideas?? I'm going to google before I start pulling the steering column apart.. Thanks. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 did u try turnign the steering wheel back and forth while trying to remove it...it sounds like the lock to keep the key in the ignition may have messed up as you mentioned...you may try starting the car and truning it back off to see if that does anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Good call. I tried starting, etc already but I just checked for the steering wheel lock (didn't notice when I was fiddling earlier) and there is none. It shouldn't lock until the key is fully retracted, but perhaps that isn't lining up or broken. The key is still stuck and 3 possibilities now... *sigh* B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 so you can start it?.. PB time .. or some graphite.. something... is the key regular straight key or does it have some funky twist to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavefromOZ Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I'd go with stuck/dislodged tumblers, the lock to keep the key in should hold it all the way in, not allow you to pull the key 1/2 way out. The deadbolt on my front door at home did the same thing, ended up having to pull the thing apart just to get the key out. I have a buddy who is a locksmith, I have sms'd him, if I hear back I will let you know what he suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavefromOZ Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 What is make & model of the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 What is make & model of the car? ahem: Title: Ignition key stuck, 2004 Toyota Matrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 maybe push the key all the way in and tap gently or if you have something that vibrates pretty violently maybe like a jitterbug (sander) and if it were stuck tumblers maybe the vibrations will get them to go down and let the key out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavis0076 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) did u try rocking the car back and forth? maybe that would disengage the shifter linkage? and put it in neutral with foot on the brake? Edited June 6, 2009 by beavis0076 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 I tried every combination of anything I could think of and nothing changed. so you can start it?.. PB time .. or some graphite.. something... is the key regular straight key or does it have some funky twist to it? Yes, the car starts, drives and acts normally in all other ways and it is a regular straight key... I'd go with stuck/dislodged tumblers, the lock to keep the key in should hold it all the way in, not allow you to pull the key 1/2 way out. The deadbolt on my front door at home did the same thing, ended up having to pull the thing apart just to get the key out. I have a buddy who is a locksmith, I have sms'd him, if I hear back I will let you know what he suggests. Thanks Dave, I pulled the ignition/tumbler assembly and the key is still stuck in it, so it's not something else; it's definitely the tumblers. A locksmith is my first stop tomorrow if I can't figure out how to disassemble the unit myself tonight without damaging it. It has a cap on the key end with 2 dowel pins holding it in place and a C clip on the opposite end securing the barrel. Looks like they made this so it can't be easily disassembled, but I'm a machinist with a mill in my garage so it's hard to keep me out... Good point about not being able to pull the key 1/2 way out, that's what confused me the most. I've considered going into locksmithing so this is actually informative experience, but not when I need the car for vacation soon... Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it. Feel free to continue contributing as it is all good info. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I know your talking about a Matrix here but I found something that might point to the problem "T.S.B.::EL004-05: 01-05 RAV4: Difficulty Removing Ignition Key" It's possible that they share cylinder designs and may have the same issue. All I found in a quick search was the title, and so far, no actual link to the TSB. I also found a post on another forum that said the issue was resolved (on another model) by the dealer with a new lock cylinder, under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Thanks Red, I read those already which was why I pulled the lock assembly. This was purchased as a preowned, certified Toyota with a brief warranty and I don't think it will be covered. Rock auto has the replacement lock cylinder for $60 so I may just get that and be done with it... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Could always try calling the service department tomorrow.. or stopping by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Oh, I will, trust me... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadm4x4 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) hello. I worked as a locksmith for a few years. Sound as if one of the top pins is stuck. Never use an oil based lubricant on them..... Its a big no no.... Us a small amount of silicon spray onside the tumbler. And dont use graphite powder. You will need to remove the ignition switch and take it to a locksmith for new pins. They can re do this by using the existing key. It will cost you but if you drill out the tear away bolts and use an easy out to remove them. The locksmith or a parts supplier can get you new bolts. Good luck. Its actually an easy thing to do, locks are a very basic mechanical item for what they do. Any probs pm me and ill try help you further Edited June 6, 2009 by jadm4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 this same situation happened on my pathy years back, idk what we had to do to fix it, but it cost 150 bucks in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Our Dodge Dakota did the same thing, ended up being a stuck tumbler. Changed it out and all was well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 So I took the ignition lock cylinder to a lock smith and paid $25 to a lock smith to butcher drilling out the pins, and then telling me it wasn't the tumblers but something with the key lock actuator mechanism. He suggested simply buying a new one as he couldn't be certain that the problem wouldn't happen again. Since it is the GF's car and she has the mechanical comprehension of a salamander, it needs to work all the time, period. What the lock smith did point out was that I could always swap the old tumblers into the new cylinder so one key fits all again. First, I soak the the old unit in solvent tomorrow, fiddle with with everything and see what I find. If I'm not certain of a fix, then I'll order a new cylinder that I won't mess with until after my vacation... hello. I worked as a locksmith for a few years. Sound as if one of the top pins is stuck. Never use an oil based lubricant on them..... Its a big no no.... Us a small amount of silicon spray onside the tumbler. And dont use graphite powder. You will need to remove the ignition switch and take it to a locksmith for new pins. They can re do this by using the existing key. It will cost you but if you drill out the tear away bolts and use an easy out to remove them. The locksmith or a parts supplier can get you new bolts. Good luck. Its actually an easy thing to do, locks are a very basic mechanical item for what they do. Any probs pm me and ill try help you further Thanks much jadm4x4!! I know better than oiling up a lock or using graphite, but didn't know silicon spray was the stuff to use. Thankfully, I have a can. As I said above, I'll take a close look at it tomorrow. I am a machinist and am pretty good at figuring out mechanisms but there is nothing like experience. I'll certainly PM you with and questions!! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Never use an oil based lubricant on them..... why? i have always done that and never, ever have i had any problems.. hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Oil base lubricants tend to be thicker, attract dust and grit and can reduce down to a tacky goo over time all of which can make the tumblers, pins, wafers, springs, etc stick sometimes. It's not that oil will destroy a lock, it just isn't the ideal lubricant. At least, that is what I understand... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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