k9sar Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 My auto tranny has been doing something strange starting today. While driving down the highway at normal speeds, everything seems fine. If I sttep on the gas, I can see the tach and hear the engine speed up but the truck doesn't seem to lurch forward. I can easily fluctuate the rpms between 3500 and 5000 without any significant change in speed. Trying to diagnose it, The tranny seems to shift through all the gears and the OD engages and disengages when I play with the switch. Accellerating from a stop seems ok. going into second happens but there is some slop in the accelleration. Same with third etc. Before I break out the FSM and crawl through the AT section, I was wondering if this sounded like a torque converter issue or something like that. I know auto trannys are designed to slip to cushion the shift but it seems to not lockup. Thoughts? oh yea... I had lost second and third a little over a year ago and had the tranny rebuilt (12 month warrenty). They said they replaced the guts (clutches etc) but I am almost positive they didn't replace the torque converter. I also have an aux cooler installed, bypassing the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It definitely sounds like the torque converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 yep trq converter but it still could be the solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 just got back from lunch and paid attention to the following... Reverse - jumps backward like a champ. no "slippage" at all First ( 1 - selector) accellerates fine and the engine retards the speed when I let off the gas Second (2 - selector) accellerates in first then shifts into second without issue. May be a little sloppy if I cruise at speed then hard accellerate First and second (D selector) accellerates fine in first, shifts to second but if I hold that speed and then hit the gas hard, there is no downshift (as expected) and the engine races with little change to forward speed Third and above, Shifts fine up into gear, downshifts if I stomp on it and grabs moderately (I think) but if I strongly accellerate while in 3 or 4, the engine revs without much forward change. I also looked at the work order from last Jan when the tranny was rebuilt. It says they did replace the TC. hmmm... If the TC is bad, wouldn't it slip in all gears? The more I look into this, the more pissed I am that the rebuild only lasted 16 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 maybe it is internal it may not necessarily be the trq conv. it would slip in all gears if the torque was similar otherwise no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Have you checked the fluid level/condition? It could be one more clue... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I think if it was the torque converter it would be slipping in all gears. It doesn't know which gear the transmission is in, so it shouldn't make any difference. The place that rebuild your tranny, are they known for using high quality parts or cheap ones to keep the cost down? Like B said, check the condition and level of the fluid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 Have you checked the fluid level/condition? It could be one more clue... B level is perfect and fluid is clean and red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Well, no real leaks or evidence of friction burned parts then. Tilts things towards electrical or hydraulic? Well, I've exhausted my knowledge. Keep a MT handy like I do... Good Luck. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 solenoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I donno a whole lot about autos but I know my buddy just did a converter in his F250 and he was having the same thing...going from 2nd to 3rd it would RPM up and not shift...They diagnosed it as a bad TC and changed it and its been working fine ever since...not saying that is your problem but when I 1st read your post I was thinking torque converter...Try reading the FSM and go through the diagnosing steps...i'd def try to get a 100% diagnosis prior to pulling it all apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 I ran the self test and all the electrical monitored systems checked out. I ran the diag procedures and it shifts at the proper speeds based on the auto/power setting and OD on/off. Electrically, it seems sound. I was thinking the TC but there are a couple reasons I don't think that is the issue... 1. if I jump on the gas from a stop, it takes off fine, no slippage. 2. If I get it up to speed on the highway, the TC should lockup. I can't tell if it does or not but I have no reason to believe it doesn't. If I hit the gas (moderately) so I don't kick down to D2, there is still slippage. A locked TC would not allow that. All diagnostics point to the high clutch. Now I have to decide what to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 well, I called the shop that did the rebuild back in Jan of 08 and spoke to the owner. I told him that I am pissed because I had my wife's van tranny rebuilt in Nov 07 and it leaked when I got it back (2400 bucks). Then I had the pathy done in Jan 08 (2500 bucks) and 16 months and 11000 miles later, it's screwed up. Of course, it's a 12 month warrenty. So anyway, I asked him for an estimate so I could decide if it was something cheap for them to do or if I was going to order a rebuild with an 18 month warrenty from Phoenix AZ and have it shipped to me for a little over $800. I can swap the tranny's but I just wasn't looking forward to rebuilding one. He couldn't give me an estimate without taking a look at it so I drove it over in 2nd gear and left it there on Wednesday evening. I got a call this morning from him confirming that it was something internal and it was a 3-4 problem/failure but he can't imagine why it would happen now and not immediately (if there was a problem with the rebuild). I voiced my dissatisfaction and distrust of their ability to solve the problem correctly and he made me an offer. He says he feels bad that I had so much done and it was not problem-free. A normal tranny job involves about $750 to remove and install and $800 or so to do the rebuild on the bench. He told me that he would do an after-warrenty adjustment and pull it apart, figure out what is wrong, fix it (if it's isn't something catastrophic) and reinstall it for an estimated price of $800. Now... I can either spend $800 (approx) to buy one and have it shipped and do the work myself -or- I can spend $800 (approx) and let someone else do all the work and rebuild mine. I told him to go ahead but to pay very close attention to what he finds and to call me and let me know because I post to the offroad board and this problem (and it's investigation and solution) may be of help to other pathfinder owners. He said it wouldn't be a problem and asked that I work with him on giving him extra time to do the job right. Duh... I should get it back late next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 with my frame fixed and a tranny rebuild, all I need to do now is put the skids back on (there are 3 or 4 broken bolts that will make that a PITA) and I'm ready to hit the trails again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 My only concern would be if he opens it up, at that price he quotes you only to find out that there is something VERY wrong and that your going to have to buy another anyway. At which point it would have been cheaper to just pick one up and do it yourself.... If that is something you can handle in your own garage, with Time permitting, etc. Nothing worse then Scabby Workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 I thought of that. I figure the worst case is that I order a replacement tranny and have it shipped to the shop and they put it in. So yea, I'd have to pay for the replacement and decide what it's worth for me not to have to do it myself. I work in my driveway because my garage is full of bikes, sports gear, my larger woodworking tools, a set of replacement garage doors, lots of tools and an engine. Though the weather is getting nice, I'm getting a bit too old to do another job like my wife's van (rebuilt the top end in November/December in 16 degree weather with wind and snow). My time is better used residing the house and I can afford to just throw money at this issue. If they are not going to do any repairs, I can probably get some more $$ off and the worst I'll be out is maybe $1400 and have a full rebuild w/ warranty. This shop is not some dad's garage. They have something like 10 bays and it's very well run. I just had a bad sequence of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 ever considered a MT swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 yea but... not sure it's worth the effort being that it's 15 years old and starting to fall apart. The only reason I bought an auto was the price. It was on the lot of a dealership that was moving and Nissan would not pay to trailer their inventory so they had a helluva blowout sale. I did my research and got it well below sticker price, nicely below invoice price and only about $150 over their actual cost (taking into consideration their volume kickback from Nissan). Did some last second negotiating over a POS Honda civic that barely made it to the dealership and probably ended up in Mexico as a taxi, had them throw in some touch-up paint, a full FSM set (the 94 service manual and the 94 update/95 delta book as well) and the roo-bar for the front at no additional cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 if you can find the MT...the work really isnt that much...I've got pretty much everything you need to do the swap if you find a transmission and we could work something out on that...just figured i'd throw it out there...i'm completely biased to MT's anyways and hate that they had no MT camry's here in CA when i got mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 I much prefer MT's also. Make driving more personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Just got a call from the garage...they found the problem but do not know why it happened. The intermediate band and the 3/4 clutch pack were burned up. I told him that this was probably due to my driving for 2 days with slippage in the high gears. They also found check balls stuck in the valve body plate which may have been the original source of the problem. We juggled the cost of the parts and when I pick it up, it will be a total of $965 out of my pocket. Maybe this one will last more than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Yeah, I hope so!! $1k and a week or two a year for trannys would be rediculous... Good luck. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) so bitching at the owner does actually help. Picked up my truck and got a heartfelt apology and 40 bucks off the bill. They still won't get any business from me (after 12 months or 12k miles). Edited June 1, 2009 by k9sar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Ouch Scott, sorry to hear about the cost. A Grand because its just out of warranty! Good luck this time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well, Driving home from work on Monday, I was in bumper to bumper traffic. Once it began to thin out, I was able to accellerate from a crawl to over 35 mph. unfortunately, the truck decided that shifting into third was not an option. SH!T. So I ran through the basics that I could ( checking each available gear, shift points, listening for slippage, shift into 4th after winding out 3rd, overdrive on/off, freewheeling vs engine breaking, etc. Got home and ran self diagnostics with no failure indicated. Not in limp mode because that is locked in third and I have just the opposite. Called the garage that did the rebuild and told them it's f'ing broken inless than a month and I'm getting tired of their crappy work. The asked me to drop it off so they could diagnose the issue (I had my suspicions of what the problem was but didn't want to get dirty when I could have the fun of yelling at them) Dropped it off Tuesday morning and started making arrangements to borrow a car for a week or so while it was at the shop. Got a call today from my son sayign that the garage had called and the truck was done. DONE? I was waiting to hear back from them with the results of their diagnosis and if they were going to tell me how much it would cost, I was going to go ballistic on them. Now I'm thinking, they fixed it and when I go to pick it up, I can argue that I never authorized the repair, just the diagnostics so I wasn't paying for it. I called the garage and talked to the manager. My suspicions were correct. The third gear shift solenoid had failed in the open position causing all kinds of strange behavior due to the changes in fluid pressure (acts like a bad vacuum leak and has low pressure so reverse was intermittent as well). Now I was thinking... they replaced the solenoid pack back in Jan 08 when they rebuilt the tranny the first time. The most recent repair was clutch pack and valve body but not the solenoids. Out of warrenty damnit! Expecting an argument, I asked if this was a warrenty repair or if there was a charge. i was shocked to hear that they were going to cover it and there is no charge. Now I just have to get out there to pick it up sometime between work and my ballgame today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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