Turbo idea?

[Simon]

I spoke to a Nissan Master tech on this yesterday, who's put a supercharger on a NA VG33 motor in the past. He said that you'd need the ECU and harness.from a SC model in order for it to work properly. the fuel rail, ECU, harness, lower plenum, SC, and accessory belts would be all that's required.

[MY1PATH]

How will your MPG's be Impacted? anyone know MPG's of a VG33e vs VG33ER (SC fronter vs N/A frontier)?

replying to myself lol I compared SC and N/A Frontiers and Exteras on KBB.com the listed MPG differances are only about a mile.

N/A Frontier 16-18

SC Frontier 15-18

N/A Extera 15-19

SC Extera 15-18

[GrimGreg]

I spoke to a Nissan Master tech on this yesterday, who's put a supercharger on a NA VG33 motor in the past. He said that you'd need the ECU and harness.from a SC model in order for it to work properly. the fuel rail, ECU, harness, lower plenum, SC, and accessory belts would be all that's required.

 

By the time you buy all those as just parts you could probably get a nice used SC Frontier or Xterra.....

[purdyboy89]

By the time you buy all those as just parts you could probably get a nice used SC Frontier or Xterra.....

 

Or just drop in a whole SC engine and such from one, if that is possible?

[Simon]

By the time you buy all those as just parts you could probably get a nice used SC Frontier or Xterra.....

You're probably right. Unless I found a blown SC motor for a decent price.

[GrimGreg]

Or just drop in a whole SC engine and such from one, if that is possible?

 

Even then...it's like us 2DR auto tranny owners, the tranny by its self is worth more than the vehicle whole!

[CrazzyMax]

URRRaaaaa for the TD27T

[Mr. Pickles]

By the time you buy all those as just parts you could probably get a nice used SC Frontier or Xterra.....

 

Or a dry NOS kit for $500, at least you'd get WOT power.

 

 

Honestly guys, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig. Yes, you can dump tons of money into these engines with turbos and superchargers and such, but why? Swap in a SBC if you need. There are gearing options that should be great, but that's about $1000. There are remote turbo kits that would keep most of us happy, along with other stuff. But really, you're driving a 15-20 year old+ brick of a V6 truck. Its slow, underpowered, but fun, and good enough. Throw it in 4WL and it will get the job done, if not pretty. Why stress on making it a hot rod? If you want, cool, but most of us just want to wheel it and get through winter. Otherwise, please post pics! :0

[Mr. Pickles]

By the time you buy all those as just parts you could probably get a nice used SC Frontier or Xterra.....

 

Or a dry NOS kit for $500, at least you'd get WOT power.

 

 

Honestly guys, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig. Yes, you can dump tons of money into these engines with turbos and superchargers and such, but why? Swap in a SBC if you need. There are gearing options that should be great, but that's about $1000. There are remote turbo kits that would keep most of us happy, along with other stuff. But really, you're driving a 15-20 year old+ brick of a V6 truck. Its slow, underpowered, but fun, and good enough. Throw it in 4WL and it will get the job done, if not pretty. Why stress on making it a hot rod? If you want, cool, but most of us just want to wheel it and get through winter. Otherwise, please post pics! :0

[MY1PATH]

Honestly guys, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig....

...But really, you're driving a 15-20 year old+ brick of a V6 truck. Its slow, underpowered, but fun, and good enough. Throw it in 4WL and it will get the job done, if not pretty. Why stress on making it a hot rod? If you want, cool, but most of us just want to wheel it and get through winter. Otherwise, please post pics! :0

your funny, and you double posted haha!

I want a hot rod that does all the above and more and I want the Pathy thats had my name on it since i was 4 years old to be come it (funny I still had to pay for it, I think that was just sopposed to be a lesson in resposibility & ownership)

[88pathoffroad]

I have my grubby hands on a good turbo off of an old Dodge Charger Shelby Cobra turbo. I should find out what the specs for this thing are. It's still on the car. My stepbrother bought this trashed-ass looking Cobra and started working on it (mostly "taking it apart") and then got kicked out of the house. He then got a new WRX. The bastard. Mom and stepdad paid for the Dodge, so they said I could have it, but I gotta take the whole car...d'oh...

 

I've really been thinking about a remote turbo setup, DIY style. Do it dirty with exhaust pipe and silicone couplers, heh. The TBI flows more than enough fuel and air to take it up to around 12 psi... (according to Lee, formerly of L&P) I'd rather shoot for a nice low-RPM boost of 4-5 psi across the board, see how that works out...maybe use the old Eclipse intercooler I have laying in my garage somewhere...

[bitemedoughboy.com]

I have my grubby hands on a good turbo off of an old Dodge Charger Shelby Cobra turbo. I should find out what the specs for this thing are. It's still on the car. My stepbrother bought this trashed-ass looking Cobra and started working on it (mostly "taking it apart") and then got kicked out of the house. He then got a new WRX. The bastard. Mom and stepdad paid for the Dodge, so they said I could have it, but I gotta take the whole car...d'oh...

 

I've really been thinking about a remote turbo setup, DIY style. Do it dirty with exhaust pipe and silicone couplers, heh. The TBI flows more than enough fuel and air to take it up to around 12 psi... (according to Lee, formerly of L&P) I'd rather shoot for a nice low-RPM boost of 4-5 psi across the board, see how that works out...maybe use the old Eclipse intercooler I have laying in my garage somewhere...

the stock dodge turbo's are crap from what ive seen/read, they are really restrictive on the turbine side... you need a t3/t4 hybrid or something similar. or dual t-25's, they should spool up fairly quickly.

[crazyhayseed]

There's no hope for the V6. Nissan's heart went into the 4 bangers... Ask the 500hp SR20 guys.

Even with it's higher displacement, the VG could never hope to make those numbers for more then the five seconds it would take to explode.

 

 

On the other hand. SBC parts are dirt cheap and the motors are lying around everywhere... Torque enough to make Pathies climb trees w/ little to no engine modification...

I'm starting to think that's not a bad idea.

 

I had a link to a company that made adapter kits, but I lost it.

Any help?

[MY1PATH]

There's no hope for the V6. Nissan's heart went into the 4 bangers... Ask the 500hp SR20 guys.

I guess you haven't snooped much of the z31 forums have ya. the stock vg30 bottom end is bullet proof coming with forged internals and rated up to 600hp stock. these motors have been pushed very hard in other vehlicles, don't let the pathfinder/pickup shell fool you. It may cost a bit but the is hope.

http://www.vg30et.com/

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/2N6VG30.html

http://z31.com

just look for stuff that worked for the Z31; cam-gears, cams, ecu, z31 heads... we've got more room in our engine bays than the z31.

...the VG series engines are highly upgradable. A very stout cast iron block coupled with an equally strong girdle type iron main cap assembly, along with hi-alloy forged steel crankshafts, rolled fillet radius throughout, and long 6.071" rods have potential for around 600hp and 25+psi on the stock bottom end. Modified versions have made it to 1000hp. Maximum RPM is around 9000. Aftermarket parts for these engines include...

...low compression forged pistons for extreme boost applications

...4340 H-beam connecting rods (not required until you reach 700+hp)

...intake manifold for 2bbl holley if you want to run a carb

ok srry to rant. I just don't want ppl thinking its totally hopless, its not cheap either but things can be done.

[crazyhayseed]

I guess you haven't snooped much of the z31 forums have ya. the stock vg30 bottom end is bullet proof coming with forged internals and rated up to 600hp stock.

ok srry to rant. I just don't want ppl thinking its totally hopless, its not cheap either but things can be done.

 

Oh no, I'm quite happy to stand corrected. I'd love to see a 1000HP VG30, but how do we apply this to the truck?

 

All of the modifications I've looked at previously (cams, pulleys, intake/exhaust changes) only yeild fractional power increases.

Forced induction and high-dollar head/valve train replacements don't seem to put the power to the low-end where we need it. Reving to 9k seems like a waste when you're crawling through a mud hole.

This is all gravy for the Z, but race cars don't climb rocks.

 

Any help on those SBC links?

[bitemedoughboy.com]

Oh no, I'm quite happy to stand corrected. I'd love to see a 1000HP VG30, but how do we apply this to the truck?

 

All of the modifications I've looked at previously (cams, pulleys, intake/exhaust changes) only yeild fractional power increases.

Forced induction and high-dollar head/valve train replacements don't seem to put the power to the low-end where we need it. Reving to 9k seems like a waste when you're crawling through a mud hole.

This is all gravy for the Z, but race cars don't climb rocks.

 

Any help on those SBC links?

all that horsepower is great but its useless in a trail rig if its not in the lower RPM range.... would be great for GT or drag racing, maybe CORR... a good ole N/A high compression engine making around 200-250 hp would be plenty for a properly geared trail rig. but if your building a mall cruiser go for the top end high reving engine.... but thats just my $.02 worth.

[MY1PATH]

I think the key term we want here is torque and I'll agree that its harder to get low end torque I hear turbo and I think high rev hig hp street fast etc...but forced induction can put power in the low end if its a super-charger because it is always on does not need "spool time"

You may think that a the mods you looked @ individually dont do much, but remeber that all mods effect eachother and add up more when there are other mods already in place.

For example; lets say you have to vg30's 1 stock and one with headders. the stock one puts out 150hp and the one with headders puts out almost 160hp. now throw the same cam in both of them. the stock vg30 gained 15hp but the one with headers gained 18hp.

In this scenario (using fictional numbers for gains) you can see how mods may interact with eachother for a few more gains. And the gains get bigger the more mods you have that work well together.

IMO I think a modest cam, cam-gears, headders and full exhaust running single pipe with 2.0 pipe or 2.25" pipe max (esp w/ headders too big and you'll lose bottom end), a decent intake mod (simple as a k&N if u like) and maybe an MSD Ignition box all working together would give you more than just a "fractional power increase" I think it might surprise you.

My thorley headers made a noticable differance as well as full exhaust (I have also been getting better mpg too) and the rest of those mods I'm holding off on untill I do a 3.3 swap.

[88pathoffroad]

the stock dodge turbo's are crap from what ive seen/read, they are really restrictive on the turbine side... you need a t3/t4 hybrid or something similar. or dual t-25's, they should spool up fairly quickly.

 

Thing is, I'm basically doing it for free and I want to see how it works, or if it doesn't. I'm not down with spending $1100 on a turbo just to mess with.

[crazyhayseed]

Yeah but then you'd have chevy in your truck

 

I'm a teenager, and according to the stereotype we are lead foots, but I find my 95 path has plenty of power Although if it had 200hp, it would be purrrrfect. Only "performance" mod I have is a drop in K&N filter that I clean religiously.

 

Custom stuff is always sweet tho.

 

Having to mod to get 200hp out of a v6 is a joke... But that's kind of my point.

 

I've built engines before. I'm no stranger to Nissan tuning. There is absolutely no way that you're going to get high power numbers out of this engine w/ commercially available bolt-ons. Even if you add them all up. It's not that responsive.

 

I think we all agree that turbo chargers aren't the answer for this truck.

Supercharger swaps haven't netted very impressive results.

 

The next best thing is a swap.

 

So what if you have to put a Chevy engine in your Nissan? We have less girth to drag around, so we should be able to turn out more impressive results than the donors.

Edited September 7, 2008 by crazyhayseed

[MY1PATH]

I think we all agree that turbo chargers aren't the answer for this truck.

ditto

So what if you have to put a Chevy engine in your Nissan? We have less girth to drag around, so we should be able to turn out more impressive results than the donors

I like the idea but; I think I read about a few ppl doing this on differant forums(can't remember which) and I think their biggest problem was heat. the 350 block is so big that even pushed against the firewall it did not leave enough room behind the radiaor for anykind of fan to effectively move air.

I'll see if I can find where I read that...

[Dowser]

I thought I would Bring this back from the dead to see if anyone could continue this conversation with some fresh Idea's.

[slade420]

the best boost in limited room. Centrifugal SuperChargers. They are simply put a belt driven turbo with a pulley instead of an exhaust side. less heat, contained cooling, saves space. i have a complete list of parts for a vg30e turbo swap called "NA & TT differences and Conversion hints.

Russell Floyd

ZX Connection (Exclusively Z32)" if you want it.

[Dowser]

the best boost in limited room. Centrifugal SuperChargers. They are simply put a belt driven turbo with a pulley instead of an exhaust side. less heat, contained cooling, saves space. i have a complete list of parts for a vg30e turbo swap called "NA & TT differences and Conversion hints.

Russell Floyd

ZX Connection (Exclusively Z32)" if you want it.

 

Lets add to this post then if you woudn't mind. It would be great for the forums for people wanting to do some unique things but need direction to do so. There's a lot of good ideas in this thread So its good to keep it all in one good one rather in several posts.

[Tungsten]

Having to mod to get 200hp out of a v6 is a joke... But that's kind of my point.

 

I've built engines before. I'm no stranger to Nissan tuning. There is absolutely no way that you're going to get high power numbers out of this engine w/ commercially available bolt-ons. Even if you add them all up. It's not that responsive.

 

I think we all agree that turbo chargers aren't the answer for this truck.

Supercharger swaps haven't netted very impressive results.

 

The next best thing is a swap.

 

So what if you have to put a Chevy engine in your Nissan? We have less girth to drag around, so we should be able to turn out more impressive results than the donors.

 

The V6 is built for reliability, not performance. It has a relatively low compression ratio and tiny intake and exhaust valves. While high compression motors will be choking on carbon deposits, my VG30E will take on anything. The only reason our V6 is of such small displacement is because of international tax codes regarding large displacement engines. Nissan wanted to sell the truck worldwide so they had to keep it under 3.0L.

 

So yes the only option remaining is to swap in an American V8 crate engine and be done with it.

[slade420]

Here is the list of parts needed.

 

NA & TT differences and Conversion hints.

Russell Floyd

ZX Connection (Exclusively Z32)

Used parts, service, performance, sales.

zxparts@mindspring.com

770-562-8668

I have gathered all this info over the past couple years. I have tons of TT and NA parts to look at and a Nissan Computer system at my disposal, so you can bet that this info is accurate.

 

ENGINE

1. The blocks are the same. They both have oil squirters that direct oil towards the underside of the piston, although they point at slightly different angles, they are still interchangeable. They have all of the same oil passages. Two passages are plugged with a bolt on the NA block (one on each outside face that feed the turbos on a TT). The TT has two oil passages plugged inside where the oil filter bracket mounts, the NA has two small check valves in this location. They are plugged in the TT so that the oil will go through the lines to the oil cooler, which returns back to the oil pan.

2. The crankshaft is the same.

3. Connecting rods ARE the same!! (Same Nissan part #)

4. Piston rings, and Crankshaft (main) bearings are the same. The rod bearings are the same size but the TT ones are a different alloy.

5. Of course the pistons are different because of lower compression ratio in the TT.65. Oil pumps are different. They mount the same but I assume the TT one is higher capacity.

6. Oil filter bracket on a TT is different it has an outlet that accommodates the hose going to the oil cooler.

7. Cams, Lifters, and valve springs ARE the same (90-93)(same Nissan Part #) The Auto TT has different intake cams (lower lift) but the intake cams on the 5 speed TT, NA, and auto NA are the same. All the exhaust cams are the same. The 94-95 cams were different than the 90-93 but just like the earlier ones they are all the same except for the intake cams on the auto TT. The 96 cams were all the same.

8. The valves are all the same size. But the exhaust valves on a TT are made from a stronger alloy.

9. Nissan claims the bare heads are different but I no longer believe it. I used to think the thickness was different but after some measurements I believe they are the same and have been using them interchangeably (just making sure the exhaust valves are the stronger TT ones)

10. The oil pan is different because the TT one has 2 tubes protruding on the sides where the oil return hoses for the turbos mount and another one for the hose returning from the oil cooler.

11.The turbo engine obviously has a few different accessories and systems to accommodate the turbos. The exhaust manifolds on the TT are much shorter than the NA ones, which go all the way down and tie into the exhaust section including the catalytic converters. The turbos are oil lubricated and water cooled. So there are oil and water feed and return lines.

12. The throttle bodies are the same size but the passenger side one is different on a TT simply because one of the water lines attached to the bottom of it has a junction in it to feed water to one turbo.

The upper and lower intake manifolds are the same TT and NA although the 94 up ones are different from the earlier ones.

 

 

 

 

 

ELECTRICAL

1. Nissan claimed the TT coil packs were different a couple years ago and charged a lot more for them. I checked them and found that they were the same and now Nissan lists them as the same.

2. Of course the ECU is different.

3. The Main engine harness is different also, but a NA harness will work in an TT, you just wont have the connections for the boost control solenoids which you don’t need anyway if you have a boost controller.

BTW, you can change the Engine harness without removing the dash, but you must remove the glove box and maybe the AC Evaporator unit under the dash.

4. If converting NA --> TT, I would leave the interior harness and gauge cluster alone. They will work with the TT setup. Get a stand alone boost gauge because the stock one sux. You probably wouldn't add the Hicas system or stock electronic adjustable suspension to a NA so you will not need the TT interior harness.

5. MAF, PTU, TPS, IAA, AIV, EGR, O2 sensors, Detonation sensor, Coolant temperature sensor are all the same.

6. The electrical AC Condenser fan is different on a TT. The motor has three wires (2 speed) going to it as opposed to two (one speed) on the NA.

7. The starters are all the same

 

OTHER DRIVETRAIN

1. If converting most people would keep the NA rear differential, because a lot of TT owners switch to it anyway. It has a lower ratio (4.08 compared to 3.67) that will decrease your top speed but enhance take off.

2. As long as you keep the NA rear diff, the NA driveshaft will work. The TT driveshaft will not work with an NA diff.

3. The NA and TT have the same 5 speed transmission model #, same splines on input and output shafts, etc. and the housings are the same except for one small difference. The spot where the starter mounts on the bellhousing on the TT is machined a little differently so that the starter will properly engage the slightly larger diameter flywheel and so that the flywheel teeth won’t scrape the inside of the bellhousing. You can use an NA 5 speed in a TT but you just have to shim the starter out a little with some flat washers and sometimes grind a little out of the inside of the bellhousing so the TT flywheel will fit inside.

If trying to use a TT trans in an NA you would either have to grind down where the starter mounts so that it could engage the smaller NA flywheel or just use the TT flywheel, which could be used with TT or NA clutch.

The automatic transmission is different for a TT, but the NA auto would still fit in place behind the TT engine. Although, they are different lengths and you would have to use the corresponding driveshaft. Both autos are geared virtually the same but the TT one is built for heavier duty.

4. The speed sensor

in the transmission is also different, which has a different size gear for NA and TT because of the different ratios in the diff. But if you are using a NA diff you need a NA speed sensor.

5. For the five speed the TT clutch has a larger contact face, a stronger pressure plate and a slightly larger diameter flywheel. You can use a TT flywheel in an NA by shimming out the starter but can’t use a NA flywheel in a TT without cutting down the spot where the starter mounts to the TT transmission. The TT’s also included a clutch booster assembly because of the stronger pressure plate. The clutch pedal and master cylinder were different because of a vacuum assisted clutch booster inside the firewall. The booster included two plastic tanks for vacuum storage also, one under the drivers fender and one under the clutch master cylinder and a network of hoses connecting them all. You don’t have to add this setup when doing a conversion the clutch pedal will just be stiff but its not unbearable.

 

OTHER STUFF

1. The Radiator and AC Condenser are MUCH different. They are much narrower on a TT so the intercooler piping can go around each side. The front lower core support is also different (but can be modified to work with a little cutting and welding) because the TT radiator and condenser mount farther down into it because they are taller to make up for the difference in width. There are some differences in the AC lines also.

1. You can use the NA power steering pump

and system with the TT as most people know. Many TT owners buy the NA system and eliminate the HICAS. The mounting brackets for the PWS pump are different for the TT and NA.

2. The TT alternator is higher output but they are interchangeable.

3. The AC Compressors are the same.

4. The TT has all of that intake/turbo/intercooler piping, intercoolers, and recirculation valves. This can be the most expensive and difficult thing to put on a NA. It isn’t easy to find used and is one of the main reasons I recommend buying an entire wrecked TT for parts if you are trying to convert from an NA.

5.The exhaust is all different for the TT. Although if you get the J-spec downpipes (which are stock in Japan in the place of our precats) an NA exhaust will bolt right up and work fine but I recommend at least getting the performance cat-back which with the J-spec down pipes and NA cats will be a nice free-flowing setup.

6. The fuel system is also different. The fuel pump

and fuel pump control units are different corresponding to the higher output TT injectors. The fuel rail, filter, pressure regulator, and dampener are all the same.

 

 

to anyone that does try this, check out a program called Nistune