syazoo Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Yikes. Posts like this one makes me just want to bring my truck to a mechanic to get the T-belt and waterpump changed. I know I'd screw something up. Plus I don't have all the tools. dont feel that way. ya this is tricky, only because I made an error not lining things up prior to removing the belt. My bad. I didnt anticipate things moving or not being correctly aligned. tools ... 10, 12, 14, 15 and I think 17 mm ... all you need. specialty ... the 27 mm for crank I had from working on my race bikes ... the harmonic puller was 24 bucks ... and I am having a great time cuz the help here makes things very easy ... ya time intensive ... but 5-700 for a shops efforts ... no way ... this is way more fun than entertaining the woman. I will align everything when I get home from work tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuperSon Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 More beer money left if you do it yourself Please take pics and Im sure youll get it all sorted out tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 2 Line up dimples of cam sprockets to dimples on housing. This should force belt marks to line up with sprocket marks. \ ok. right now you need to to the belt like in the pic and make sure it and all the sprokets lineup. the left one you're gonna have to turn just a tad to the right and the right one a tad to the left. the bottom one is just as it needs to for now. do not rotate any of these in circles.. just a tad back to allignement. marking all this was smart as it really should save you from more serious work to get everything back and.. at this point you don't need to dive into that. after you get everything back to the exact same position as it was before, move on to the TDC and on. basically i'd start over. all the dimples and such are kind of approx.. don't stress it to be nutz on. this is not a swiss clock. superson, The most important thing is its at TDC first before lining up those 2 cam shaft sprockets? yes, TDC is where you start this job besides unhooking the battery... in the condition we have in the original post, i think, he needs to go back as per above and others before trying/doing anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuperSon Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 mz ill be doing mine soon and with your help I feel that I can do this without having any problem Just in case since im going to be at the base and theres no available internet connection there would you mind guiding me thru over the phone just in case problem arise:type: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yikes. Posts like this one makes me just want to bring my truck to a mechanic to get the T-belt and waterpump changed. I know I'd screw something up. Plus I don't have all the tools. Good luck. I gotta ask you.... Have you ever actually found a mechanic more intelligent, careful, and patient as yourself? (And no, "wishing" them to be so won't make them so....) If so, you're doing right to turn it over to them when you can afford to. If not, you may want to rethink your decision. I'd reckon you are far more capable of learning and doing it right than they are. And buying the tools will be less than the cost for their labor. For me, I've found 2 I will trust. And both charge appropriate amounts for their experience and skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuperSon Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 amen to that Just this afternoon I figured id stop by my local tire shop just to ask how much it will cost me to have the UCA and coils replaced on my pathy and the guy quoted me about 4 hours for the UCA and 2.5 for the coil :o This is the reason why I dont support local businesses here.It might be different in some states but here in spokane everything is a rip off. I dont buy anything here locally if i can help it. businesses should support us too not just us supporting them so ebay is the place for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Bottom line: When it is all said and done and regardless of how you get there, all that matters is: 1) There needs to be exactly 40 belt teeth between the mark on the RH cam pulley (passenger side) and the LH cam pulley (drivers side). 2) There needs to be exactly 43 belt teeth between the mark on the LH cam pulley (drivers side) and the mark on the crank pulley. 3) The tension needs to be right per the BRILLIANT instructions posted up above. 4) And NO forceful rotating of ANY shaft with the belt removed. It is unlikely you could cause damage to interfering valves and crank, but possible. And really, that's all there is to it. You can remove and install the belt with the engine at ANY point in it's rotation if you follow those rules. But at some positions, the cams may want to rotate due to spring pressure pushing on the cam lobes so it will be more difficult. And belt tension should be set at TDC - all the divots lining up. Note: The Gates belt we are in the process of installing has lines marked on it at the proper 40 and 43 tooth spots. And a forward indicator to assure the belt is installep properly. So relax.... Step back and think about that for a minute, and you'll realize it's all going to be OK. Wrench on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathFound Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I gotta ask you.... Have you ever actually found a mechanic more intelligent, careful, and patient as yourself? (And no, "wishing" them to be so won't make them so....) If so, you're doing right to turn it over to them when you can afford to. If not, you may want to rethink your decision. I'd reckon you are far more capable of learning and doing it right than they are. And buying the tools will be less than the cost for their labor. For me, I've found 2 I will trust. And both charge appropriate amounts for their experience and skills. I see what your saying. I would do the work myself if I had somebody that had a little knowledge about these things with me. The only person I know is my dad, but he is 4000 km away. The cost of the tools is nothing. I already have most of them. I don't know any mechanics (well, aside from my dad). I've always had newer cars that didn't need anything major replaced or was fixed under warranty. I bought the Pathfinder partly to learn more about fixing cars. I did a lot of work helping friends out when I was younger (suspension, brakes, gas tank fun, tune-ups, body work). I really, really want to do the job myself, but I'm running into the dillema that if I change the T-belt myself, seal the engine back up and start it I will have messed up and there goes my engine. Atleast if a mechanic does it and the engine get messed they will have to repair it for improperly installing the belt. I could wait until my dad comes out this summer to help me change the belt. But I live in fear of it breaking because I don't know when it was last changed. Plus the water pump is leaking. I'd hate to be 100 km from nowhere and be left stranded. Also, I checked at the Nissan dealership yesterday: Timing Belt: $61 (good for 100,000 km) Water Pump: $109 That's more than I expected - especially for the belt. Are you guys putting Nissan T-belts and water pumps, or aftermarket brands? I assume aftermarket brands are cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) ok... I think this is it haha if I actually have this now, I feel like a total drama .. well not queen thats for sure ... because this method was so easy and fast its nuts ,,, -I counted teeth on the belt to find the marks with 40 and 43 between them. This way I knew what way the belt goes on. -I lined up the dimple marks on the camshaft sprockets. The L moves the distributor of course, so I positioned it so dimples lined up and rotor is pointing at 1 wire. I turned the crankshaft until cyl 1 was at TDC. **** here is the only thing I am uncertain of at this point** I believe it is at TDC on comp stroke because when I put the belt on, all the marks on the belt line up with marks on sprockets, they shouldn't if it is not on comp stroke. Is this correct? If so, I am just putting it all back together now .... Edited February 7, 2007 by syazoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 i am putting on an aftermarket one. ~$30.. gates belt may be even more the nissan one but they are good i just don't have the money. if you have the cash, go with nissan pump as the remanufactured ones aren't exactly the same; they don't move the same volume of water through (less.) found, what year and how many miles on your truck? btw. you can do it. just start at TDC man and mark everything like zoo and then refer to this thread. supreson, i can help you but i am on EST. you said base.. what kind of base? as in mountain or military. if mountain, work on your vehicle a little closer to civilization, ok? please. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 syazoo, 4) And NO forceful rotating of ANY shaft with the belt removed. It is unlikely you could cause damage to interfering valves and crank, but possible. ok. right now you need to to the belt like in the pic and make sure it and all the sprokets lineup. the left one you're gonna have to turn just a tad to the right and the right one a tad to the left. the bottom one is just as it needs to for now.do not rotate any of these in circles.. just a tad back to allignement. did you miss these? next time around the marks on the belt and the sprokets will not allign. only every so many revolutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) I dont understand what you are saying M .... I did not force anything when turning the sprockets .. there was an anticipated resistance I suppose .. but did not force .... are you saying something else? In my last post I meant to just review that I had followed suggestions and wanted my work double checked so that I am confident that I am not 180 degrees out on my timing ..... do you think I mis understood that it is fine to turn the cam sprockets to align them? Edited February 7, 2007 by syazoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) how much did you turn them? and why did you turn the crank? the idea is to turn all of those in sync not seperately. at this point i really can't tell if it's all good or not. you may be if everything else checks out. turn the whole assembly by hand now.. it should be pretty uniform. no stubborn spots. if piston is at top of stroke and rotor points to #1 plug wire, you should be good. Edited February 7, 2007 by mzxtreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fondo Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I have a question about ignition timing when going about this procedure(please forgive me, as I don't want to confuse anyone who's in the middle of this project even more and then I throw another curve ball sending them in distraught). If you advance or retard the valve timing in such a way that it is out of sync with the ignition (distributor) timing, do you need adjust the ignition timing so that it is in sync with the valve timing (retard or advance to compensate)? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) I dont recall anyone mentioning that these had to be turned in sync. The emphasis has been on number of teeth between marks and dimples aligning. I lined up the cam sprockets (I turned the L about 3/4 turn clockwise and R about 1/4 turn counter clockwise This seamed reasonable to me since the purpose of the dimples is to TDC the cams right?) I made sure that the L was pointing at wire 1 because that is where it should be pointing when cyl 1 is at TDC on comp stroke. I turned the crank ... I think it was 2 turns to get to what I believe to be the comp stroke. ( I am certain it is TDC on Cyl1 ) This is the spot where I was asking previously if the following logic is reasonable. This is the spot where all lines line up on the belt. I know the belt is positioned correctly by counting the 40 and 43 distances. The dimple on the crank ended up at about 5 oclock. I dont know if that is consistent when it would be at TDC at cyl1 comp stroke. I will attach some pics that may or may not help to verify all is well b4 I put it all together. Since I took these pics with the belt on, I have rotated all three sprockets together and there is nothing that feels like anything is hitting anything. Edited February 7, 2007 by syazoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 the L sproket and rotor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) The R sprocket Edited February 7, 2007 by syazoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Looks like everything's set there. As long as you've cranked her over by hand a couple times, with no crashing, heavy binding, and you've got your tension set properly on the belt (no more/less than 90 degree twist between the camshafts) and your tensioner tighetened up, looks like you're ready to piece it all back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 zoo, i think you're there. check in after you fire it up. on sync movement: it's really hard to get every point accross via the internet, isn't it? for those who work on stuff that part kind probably seems natural. it did to me as all those things, under normal conditions momve together. but that's why you keep asking questions and we keep trying to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I have a question about ignition timing when going about this procedure(please forgive me, as I don't want to confuse anyone who's in the middle of this project even more and then I throw another curve ball sending them in distraught). If you advance or retard the valve timing in such a way that it is out of sync with the ignition (distributor) timing, do you need adjust the ignition timing so that it is in sync with the valve timing (retard or advance to compensate)? Thanks not sure what you're asking here exactly. but, when you get your truck to TDC then you'll also find out that all the sprokets also should be in the right position. dimples should all be ligned up. that's why you need to start with the engine at TDC. it makes stuff way simpler off the bat. this way you also should be in time.. there is really never a need to adjust the timing. the only time you'd have to do it is if you ever move the dizzy, like to remove the heads or cams.. otherwise i have never, ever had a vehicle just go out of time. never. if it ever does, you got some issues. if you have marked the dizzy position before loosening it, you probably won't have to time the engine then either. just move the dizzy back to it's mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Thanks boyz. I will start the assembly tonight ... maybe even finish. I am so sick of driving the spare car ... 92 buick ... land yaht .... What I learned doing this: I am sure that I made this way more difficult than need be. I resolved that perhaps I should not count on the positioning being correct as it was when I marked the sprockets prior to taking belt off originally. The reason I did not trust that positioning is because the lines on the belt did not line up with the marks on the sprockets with cyl 1 at TDC (the teeth were more than 40 between L and R cam sprockets from dimple to dimple). People here emphasized this being the most important issue. I should have been able to make this decision within about 5 minutes of inspection. When I do this again, I will go to TDC, check belt alignment and if it isn't correct I will just go straight to the aligning the two cam sprockets and verify teeth between marks being accurate. I am betting I could have this all completed and a belt replaced in less than 30 mins in the future. I will let ya know if it explodes or not Edited February 7, 2007 by syazoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 the marks (factory ones) on the belt will only allign with the sprokets once in a while.. not at every TDC. what i wanted you to do originally was for you to match up the marks YOU made and then go to TDC. allignement of the cams and crank is what you're after here as that's what is imperative. it won't blowup but just in case have an extinguisher ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fondo Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yah sorry about that last question from me. It was late, what can I say. I'm awake now and understand the basic principal of a 4-stroke again...lol :confused: :idea: sorry again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Looking at the pictures and assuming: - nothing was moved between photos - the white marks on the pulleys are right at the dimples Then you're good to go! Can we add those photos to the write up in the stickies? Those photos are crystal clear and really illustrate the proper alignment of a new belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syazoo Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Any tip on holding torquing the crankshaft bolt to 98 lbs? .. I mean to keep it from turning the engine ... I havent got an impact at the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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