Vsicks Pathy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Final stake in the heart my butt. People in the US are ADDICTED to Ford and Chevy. It matters not whether the Chevy has an Isuzu-produced diesel in it, people don't care as long as they see the bowtie they can safely reminisce about the good ole days when Chevy and Ford were about the only trucks you could get that were worth a damn to haul stuff with. We don't have anything else that will do heavy loads or towing! Addicted to them? I think not. Camry has been number 1 in the US for ten years. That alone must surely speak for itself. If people were addicted to them (like the good old days) they wouldn't be in the position they find themselves in today. Nah, that addiction has long passed. Actually, the addicion is the reason they are in the poo. The sales were expected, not earnt. Nothing else for towing of heavy loads? You will soon, a Toyota! Quality, ecconomical and reliable. That's a far cry from what's on offer at the moment. And how many people can really justify owning such large and no-nenviromentally friendly trucks (and that is exactly what they are, trucks) for towing anyway? Over here most of us will hire a truck if we need to move house or the like. We don't drive a truck every day because there is no real reason to use it like that. As for towing.. A tow bar and a trailer work fine. The good old ute too, is a very handy car to have. If Chrysler, Ford and Chev don't pull their finger out, then reminiscing is all that will be left. As I said earlier... The only way when you hit rock bottom is up. BUT the changes have to be recognised and iimplemented. If not just sit back and remember when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Addicted to them? I think not. Camry has been number 1 in the US for ten years. That alone must surely speak for itself. If people were addicted to them (like the good old days) they wouldn't be in the position they find themselves in today. Nah, that addiction has long passed. Actually, the addicion is the reason they are in the poo. The sales were expected, not earnt. Nothing else for towing of heavy loads? You will soon, a Toyota! Quality, ecconomical and reliable. That's a far cry from what's on offer at the moment. And how many people can really justify owning such large and no-nenviromentally friendly trucks (and that is exactly what they are, trucks) for towing anyway? Over here most of us will hire a truck if we need to move house or the like. We don't drive a truck every day because there is no real reason to use it like that. As for towing.. A tow bar and a trailer work fine. The good old ute too, is a very handy car to have. If Chrysler, Ford and Chev don't pull their finger out, then reminiscing is all that will be left. As I said earlier... The only way when you hit rock bottom is up. BUT the changes have to be recognised and iimplemented. If not just sit back and remember when. Toyota's got NOTHING on what an F350 or HD3500 diesel will haul or tow. Toyotas aren't even considered in the same category, and as you said they aren't even available yet. Domestic trucks are also the ONLY platform for building industrial HD trucks that are used in aerial construction, hospital services and towing, general construction, etc. I have yet to see anything BUT a domestic truck on a job site around here. Sure, people drive their own import trucks to work but companies don't generally buy them to use in the same fields. And Camry? WTF? Are we talking about cars or trucks here? I was just talking about trucks. Cars are a different story. Camry is the #1 SMALL CAR sold in the US, Honda is close behind, I don't dispute any of that. Good cars, long legacy of quality and longevity, etc. I don't have much to say about domestic cars, I've driven and owned a few but they were all used 80's cars, so no real way to comment on quality or anything IMHO...they were thrashed before I got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 And Camry? WTF? Are we talking about cars or trucks here? I was just talking about trucks. yes, we must seperate that. Car and Truck sales are difficult to compare as there is a broader market appeal to the camry as opposed to a 3/4 tonne pick-up truck. Personally, I would never buy an American car outside of the full-size pickup truck category. I don't like they way they drive, they feel cheap, handle poorly, look ugly, fall apart, and can be a nightmare to repair. There new <5 year old line of SUVs is absolutely terrible. So much so that even the Kias are starting to look appealing. Maybe this article can shed some light on that: SUVS The one thing i have noticed about an american car is it's rare to find one that's underpowered. I don't think Amercians will ever truly let go of their admiration of American pickup trucks. That is pretty much that last vestige they have against the imports. Like 88 said, if you need a vehicle heavier than a Titan or Tundra (fullsize Jap pickups) your only choice is American. Fleet vehicles whether government or private industry will always turn to the American manufacturers for their needs. There will always be a demand for American vehicles. It's whether or not these manufacturers are going to be able to meet it. I don't know much about how they treat their workers, but the Japanese plants seem to do quite well. We have a Toyota plant which builds the corrolas and Lexus RX's in town here, which a couple of my friends are employed at. They seem to really enjoy the money, but they work incredibly hard for it. Sometimes they are on mandatory 60 hour weeks, but they reap the rewards on the pay stub on which the government reaps thiers (that's another story). I like the way unions protect their workers against poor working environments, unsafe equipment etc. I also think it's important to have a close, open relationship with managment. It's a wise idea to listen to the worker's opinions when it comes to making changes. They are ultimately responsible for the quality of your product, provided the design is good. Give them proper training, the right tools, and a clean, healthy, welcoming environment and they will give you the best they have. If you've ever driven a 2003+ corrola or Lexus RX, you'll know they do a good job over there. But sometimes the unions can be damaging. They can lower the productivity and make haven for loafers. I've also seen unions abuse thier power by striking for higher pay. I'm a firm believer in earning your wage and letting your actions and numbers speak for themselves. I'd rather be paid bonuses for harder work than jeapordize the future of the company to get a group-wide pay increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Final stake in the heart my butt. People in the US are ADDICTED to Ford and Chevy. It matters not whether the Chevy has an Isuzu-produced diesel in it, people don't care as long as they see the bowtie they can safely reminisce about the good ole days when Chevy and Ford were about the only trucks you could get that were worth a damn to haul stuff with. We don't have anything else that will do heavy loads or towing! i live in ford tk country and guess what.. all of a sudden it's toyota everywhere. they are just simply better. they are also made here so not as japanese as they used to be. they are spanking the us junkers like there was no tomorrow. you'll see toyotas replacing the small 3 soon enough. Fleet vehicles whether government or private industry will always turn to the American manufacturers for their needs. There will always be a demand for American vehicles. It's whether or not these manufacturers are going to be able to meet it. simple not true.. just you wait. i see fleets of yotas more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Toyota's got NOTHING on what an F350 or HD3500 diesel will haul or tow. Toyotas aren't even considered in the same category, and as you said they aren't even available yet. Domestic trucks are also the ONLY platform for building industrial HD trucks that are used in aerial construction, hospital services and towing, general construction, etc. I have yet to see anything BUT a domestic truck on a job site around here. Sure, people drive their own import trucks to work but companies don't generally buy them to use in the same fields. And Camry? WTF? Are we talking about cars or trucks here? I was just talking about trucks. Cars are a different story. Camry is the #1 SMALL CAR sold in the US, Honda is close behind, I don't dispute any of that. Good cars, long legacy of quality and longevity, etc. I don't have much to say about domestic cars, I've driven and owned a few but they were all used 80's cars, so no real way to comment on quality or anything IMHO...they were thrashed before I got them. It is exactly this line of thought and closed minded tunnel vision that has put Chrysler, Ford and Chev in the sh!t. You make it sound like these 3 only produce trucks? I would have thought that car sales (lack of) would have been a massive part of the equation. No-one wants the big pollution, slapped together, fuel guzzeling, bigger and uglier than the last model CAR, TRUCK, or SUV (or whatever you'd like to call them) dinosours anymore. That is why the Japs are raking it in and taking over! Trucks and SUVs.... You better had start comparing them to cars, and quickly too. You say camry is the number one small car? Over hear it is classed as a large car. So tell me, what is the number one large car and by how many units does the Camry beat it or fall short of it. As for Toyota, no need to scream they have got nothing? We all know that. All I said was that they will, and very soon too. And when they do, look out! Their diesels are way more refined than that produced in the US. Their fuel ecconomy is way more refined too. And as you said yourself. "Good cars, long legacy of quality and longevity, etc. I don't have much to say about domestic cars,". With that in mind, what model "full sized" pick up would you be looking at? be honest now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) As I typically disagree with Vsicks, (NOT TODAY!!!)Yotas are on the move, and frankly I can't wait...bring the german/japanese/korean/chinese vehics here and allow the US to understand that you can only piss off your customer with bs for so long before you just lose....un-gracefully (is that a word?). Did everyone forget about the early 90's chevs/chryslers/fords with their re-diculous paint fade through and such that was never really addressed or corrected?? How many civics/accord, and camry/corollas have you seen that rusted to death before the paint just looked like hell with a severe fade through or a monster chip/peel problem...BS They banked our granddaddy's $$$, sucked off us in governmental times of need and blind us with fleet sale numbers about best selling bla bla bla. Pisses me off to the core. Anyone here have a 8.1 liter GM?? Did you replace your crank sensor yet, and not have the warranty pick up the tab at 20K miles, or 40K miles or a thrid round at 60K miles?? I've heard too many...... FORD, how about the 4.6, 5.4 tritons with the magical self trashing heads that once you change the plugs 1 time, you have a better chance of blowing the next set through the poor quality aluminum heads than changing them?? Too much $$$ for BS "throw Americans under the buss" AFTER taking their middleclass--lowerclass money mentality!!! They used to support American and get them great jobs helping the middle class, now they make the gap bigger by selling the middleclass trucks/cars that hold no value at all and make them buy gap insurance. Ever wonder why they offer $6000 off of a Tahoe?? Hmmm, gap. Edited February 4, 2007 by 98silverpathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 It is exactly this line of thought and closed minded tunnel vision that has put Chrysler, Ford and Chev in the sh!t. You make it sound like these 3 only produce trucks? I would have thought that car sales (lack of) would have been a massive part of the equation. No-one wants the big pollution, slapped together, fuel guzzeling, bigger and uglier than the last model CAR, TRUCK, or SUV (or whatever you'd like to call them) dinosours anymore. That is why the Japs are raking it in and taking over! Trucks and SUVs.... You better had start comparing them to cars, and quickly too. You say camry is the number one small car? Over hear it is classed as a large car. So tell me, what is the number one large car and by how many units does the Camry beat it or fall short of it. As for Toyota, no need to scream they have got nothing? We all know that. All I said was that they will, and very soon too. And when they do, look out! Their diesels are way more refined than that produced in the US. Their fuel ecconomy is way more refined too. And as you said yourself. "Good cars, long legacy of quality and longevity, etc. I don't have much to say about domestic cars,". With that in mind, what model "full sized" pick up would you be looking at? be honest now. What other companies produce heavy-duty trucks for the US, though? Isuzu and Nissan make the UD and FPR/FRR diesel series, but they stink(literally), the mileage is still low and they have very little power, especially when loaded. I've driven several. 99% of them are simple box trucks, some are used for lawncare/landscaping. I've only seen a very few used for anything else. That's what I was getting at. You can't buy anything but domestics here that are heavy-duty, that's the market corner we're missing. Name me one more company to choose from, please. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, just clarifying what I was saying. By the way, what kind of fuel mileage/kilometerage are YOU getting with your Nissan? Mine gets around 10-12 but I plan on getting some nice 31's for around-town driving after I get 'er fixed. Sorry, but Nissans aren't any better than Fords or Chevys when it comes down to mileage, power output and cost of maintenance. People complain about new Nissan build quality all the time, from what I've seen. Chalk it up as pickiness or just plain being produced in the US now, I suppose. I'd take a Chevy 2500 with the Duramax if someone gave it to me. I won't buy new, though. The markup is ridiculous and the depreciation is horrific. I HATE the way the new Toyotas look, nasty. New Nissans aren't much better. BTW, my brother has a '07 Tacoma, it has a stock stereo you can't change out with anything aftermarket and the 4.0L V6 gets 15 MPG. Lovely...where's that wonderful fuel mileage you're spouting about? His '03 Chevy 1500 4x4 truck with the 5.3L V8 gets 20 MPG and has yet to break anything. *shrug* Depends on what you get, I suppose. Oh, and we've never had a Toyota diesel in the US, either. Same with Nissan diesels in domestic trucks/cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 OK, Top 10 vehicles in overall sales in 2006 in the US from Edmunds.com: 1. Ford F-Series 796,039 2. Chevrolet Silverado 636,069 3. Toyota Camry 448,445 4. Dodge Ram 364,177 5. Honda Accord 354,441 6. Honda Civic 316,638 7. Chevrolet Impala 289,868 8. Toyota Corolla 272,327 9. Nissan Altima 232,457 10. Chevrolet Cobalt 211,449 In the large-car class, I couldn't find a top 10 list but the major sellers in the US for 2006 were (alphabetically) from MSN Autos: Audi A8 BMW 7-Series Buick Lucerne Cadillac DTS Chevrolet Impala Chrysler 300 Dodge Charger Dodge Magnum Ford Crown Victoria Ford Five Hundred Hyundai Azera Infiniti M Infiniti Q45 Jaguar XJ Series Kia Amanti Lexus LS 460 Lincoln Town Car Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class Mercedes-Benz S-Class Mercury Grand Marquis Mercury Montego Toyota Avalon Small car top sellers, also from MSN Autos: Acura TSX Audi A3 Audi A4 BMW 3-Series Chevrolet Aveo Chevrolet Cobalt Chevrolet HHR Chrysler Crossfire Chrysler PT Cruiser Dodge Caliber Ford Focus Ford Mustang Honda Civic Honda Civic Hybrid Honda Fit Hyundai Accent Hyundai Elantra Hyundai Tiburon Infiniti G35 Jaguar X-TYPE Kia Rio Kia Spectra Mazda Mazda3 Mazda Mazda5 MINI Cooper Mitsubishi Eclipse Mitsubishi Lancer Nissan Sentra Nissan Versa Pontiac G5 Pontiac Vibe Saab 9-2X Saturn Ion Scion tC Scion xA Scion xB Subaru Impreza Suzuki Aerio Suzuki Forenza Suzuki Reno Toyota Corolla Toyota Matrix Toyota Yaris Volkswagen Golf Volkswagen GTI Volkswagen Jetta Volkswagen New Beetle Volkswagen Rabbit Volvo S40 Hope that helps a little. Now we can see what the offerings were, pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 OK, Top 10 vehicles in overall sales in 2006 in the US from Edmunds.com: 1. Ford F-Series 796,039 2. Chevrolet Silverado 636,069 3. Toyota Camry 448,445 4. Dodge Ram 364,177 5. Honda Accord 354,441 6. Honda Civic 316,638 7. Chevrolet Impala 289,868 8. Toyota Corolla 272,327 9. Nissan Altima 232,457 10. Chevrolet Cobalt 211,449 wow.. no wonder 'they are winning.' -thnkboutit- tell me this: how does the rest of the world do all this stuff without these huge gas hogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 tell me this: how does the rest of the world do all this stuff without these huge gas hogs? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Cushman carts! Those things rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 besides: here is the 07 tundra small 3 getting smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 besides: here is the 07 tundra small 3 getting smaller. Just as ugly as the rest too. They should sell like hot cakes then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 (edited) besides: here is the 07 tundra Do they offer it with a diesel yet though? Untill they do the 3 builders in question will still win when it comes to ranchers and farmers out in the boonies. Or all the suburban guys around here that have a fifth-wheel, 4wheelers and a boat to pull Edited February 5, 2007 by Harbinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavelow Leaks Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I used to work part time at a dodge dealership..detailing cars. People would buy these huge 3500 dually's and I'd say..what are you pulling? The overwhelming answer to that question was "nothing." That really used to burn my biscuits...why the hell do people buy trucks made specifically to haul extremely heavy loads..and use it to take the family to the local wal mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 It's called "compensating". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 *snort* My other car is a VW Bug... Do they offer it with a diesel yet though? It's like the VW diesel... Gets 40-50 mpg, and then Cali bans the importation as it doesn't run clean enough. But a Cummin's TD in a Dodge 2500 getting 20 mpg burns cleaner ?? WTF ?? Politics have a big play in whats sold here, never think otherwise... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It's called "compensating". lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Chrysler lost more than $1 billion last year http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/14/...in2472978.shtml And the saga continues... Anyone ever read Snow Crash ? I get the feeling that I'll see the day that all the US can export for sale is pizza and movies... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) BMW sure as hell did clean up this year; Porsche ain't doing too bad either. They've got massive profits per vehicle. EDIT: I read the whole thread. Ford is doing FAR, FAR worse than GM. There is a small light at the end of the tunnel for GM. Not so much for Ford. Christ, they're bringing back the Taurus name for the 500. How lame. I doubt GM will buy Chrysler, which would the exact thing that GM shouldn't do. They don't need another mess on their plate. Y'all need to read the reviews on this site: Best car site EVER Edited February 17, 2007 by OR99.5Speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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