94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 ok, i've noticed this not long ago and it has been worrying me somewhat so i thought i'd ask. the tires on my truck lean in two different directions. seems there is a bit of a "pigeon toe." they both kind of "plow" or are closer to each other in the front then they are in the back. the other lean is that the tops of each front tire are sticking out more past the truck then the bottoms. not sure if either condition is normal. i noticed this since i took off the fender flares. any idea if this is normal or what may be the cause? please share your thoughts thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 ok, i've noticed this not long ago and it has been worrying me somewhat so i thought i'd ask. the tires on my truck lean in two different directions. seems there is a bit of a "pigeon toe." they both kind of "plow" or are closer to each other in the front then they are in the back. the other lean is that the tops of each front tire are sticking out more past the truck then the bottoms. not sure if either condition is normal. i noticed this since i took off the fender flares. any idea if this is normal or what may be the cause? please share your thoughts thanks all. How far are your TB cranked mz? That may be effecting your camber. ie. Wheels sticking out more at the top. This will wear your tyres on the outsides. The wheels pointing in toward each other is toe. Your wheels are toeing in. You will find that most front wheels toe in so you car will drive straight woithout wandering. BUT this should not really be noticable. You might have too much toe. If so your tyres will wear on the outsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 There are three angles in regard to tires/suspension.. 1 Toe this adjustment will provide either Toe-In (fronts of the tires point inward) or toe-Out (the fronts point outward) Toe effects the vehicles tracking - helps drive straight. Excessive Toe (+ or -) will increase overall tire wear and cause uneven wear patterns 2 Camber This will be either Positive or Negative. Camber determines the amount of lean the tires have. The tops of the tires will either lean in (-) or out (+) Camber effects the cars ability to corner at speed, Negative Camber helps keep more tread on the ground on the outside tires while cornering. Like with Toe, to much Camber (+ or -) will increase overall tire wear and cause uneven wear patterns. 3 Caster This is more a steering related angle than tire related.. it is the angle at which the steering angle operates. Caster changes the effectiveness of the steering system and also the tracking of the vehicle. It also effects how well a car will re-center itself. Caster does not have much effect on overall tire wear. It is normal for vehicles to have Toe-In and Negative Camber... however most (if not all) 4x4 have no or very little Camber and it is not normally adjustable. If they lean in or out, it's time to look for worn or damaged parts (i.e. Wheel bearings or trunnion bearings on a solid Axle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 no idea on the TB crank. i have never done it but maybe one of the previous owners did. kind of make me wonder since even after replacing the rear springs i still have the nose up higher then the butt. the toe didn't seem to be there before but now it's noticable. crap. i wonder if i messed something up when i burried it in mud during last outing. have really, really bad creeks and squeeks now. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 V6 is right, if the T-Bars are cranked to far it may have thrown the camber off... this is something that replacement UCA's should address... at least eh better ones He is also on target with the toe, it should not be obvious that they are pointed at each other. When was the last time you had an alignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 never. i'll have to come back in a bit and read your prior post. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) Trucks that have large tires, are used off-road and especially driven off-road with big tire are often knocked out of alignment. That maybe the reason you are noticing the increased Toe-In Edited May 10, 2006 by RedPath88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Here is a link that should help explain wheel alignment Wheel Alignment - A Short Course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) Trucks that have large tires, are used off-road and especially driven off-road with big tire are often knocked out of alignment. That maybe the reason you are noticing the increased Toe-In my TRE assemblies look just like they did before. the other thing i thought of was that i did have my tires rotated at the tire shop v. recently (since my muddy excursion) but i doubt that'd make any difference. they are not noticably worn but i'll have to check the rears tomorrow. it's awfully hard to tell with these knobby monters though, we'll see and i'll report back tomorrow. btw. the truck tracks just fine but it definitely has quite a + campber and seems like rather excessive toe. any idea on the numbers that it should have for either of those? Edited May 10, 2006 by mzxtreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'll check my FSM. I would imagine that information is in there... it seems like Aaron said not to long ago that he eyeballs (adjusts) his alignment in the driveway because it would cost to much to have an alignment done every couple of weeks. There is also a write up on another board... it's a How-To for Nissan truck alignments done at home. I'll see if I can find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 thanks man. any idea how to adjust the camber? i might have to look into the longer UCAs but man, the money is v. tight right now. darn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 As far as I know the camber is non-adjustable on our trucks... though you might be able to use shims (I will have to look at my truck when I go out to the garage to get my FSM after I post this) Driveway Alignment Written by Garbacho Posted by Desert Lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Yes the info is in the FSM and the Camber is also adjustable using shims... I'll see if I can get some quality scans of these pages for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Ok, well I checked my FSM (1989) and then compared it to the 1995 FSM PDF. They are a "little" different but not much. However, since you truck is a four door and only one year off of the 1995 manual I took these tables from the '95 FSM If you would like the numbers for an '89, let me know. On a side note, if you look at the bottom of the second image you will find the specs for how the front end should sit This is something I have wanted for a long time and here it is, in the FSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 You can adjust both camber and cater using shims behind the UCA bolts. When I originally cranked my T-bars I catually had to remove shims (usually you need to add) so It made me wonder about who did the last alignment on the truck before I had gottne it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Good info RP88. mz, time for that wheel alaignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Check that center link. When mine went out after wheelin, the tires pointed in on each other and it was all over the road. Raise the front of your rig off the ground and see if the tires striaghten out, or move seperatly. Caster. camber and toe all all adjustable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 new CL. rides like a dream. no wandering or anything. i'll try to take a pic with the POS digi camera i have tomorrow and i'll post up. i will lift it anyway since i have to take a looksy at the e brake again and check a few other things underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 As far as I know the camber is non-adjustable on our trucks... though you might be able to use shims (I will have to look at my truck when I go out to the garage to get my FSM after I post this) Driveway Alignment Written by Garbacho Posted by Desert Lady oh, that's awesome red. thanks for all the links my man. i'll definitely take a better look tomorrow if it doesn't rain. i don't want to have to shuffle all my cars out of the garage right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 just a side note. when dealing with shim's. you can get in trouble if you dont tighen the upper arm bolts down tight enough. (nothing surprising there) however theres been one or two on here & my self (as of last night....) and another pathy owner i know where we have run into trouble cause the treads in the chassis where the upper arm bolts go into have been damaged by crummy tyre shops. they have stripped the treads so its not possible to put proper torque on the bolts. without proper torque on those bolts the shim's can fall out. the easiest and best solution to this is to 'helicoils' the holes. i helicoiled my holes last night, and put my top arms back on, then tighened them up. i was very inpressed how tight i could go. i stopped when i physically could not budge the rachet any further after leaning on it with my whole body weight. now another side note..... (keeping in mind im running higher than stock and in oz where no aftermarket arms are available) with regards to camber and caster. most shops round here dont wanna know about modified cars, ie. you take your car in for an alignment and all they do is toe adjustment. so i ve taken it apon myself to get the camber and caster right. now obviously the only way this is gonna work is by making adjustments then going to an alignment shop and getting a print of whats happening. now for the useful bit..... what ive done to get the camber right is to cut a plate of steel thats 5mm think to fit behind the upper arm then drilled holes in it the same as the bolt patern for the arm. ive made 6 of these so i can add or subtract plates as necasseray (sp????). once the camber is close by eye then i check it out at the tyre shop. the reason ive use plates is that a plate with a hole will NOT fall out unless the bolt holding it completely falls out as well. if a bolt falls out youve got more to worry about then losing a plate..... for caster same process as above HOWEVER instead of plates that go from BOTH bolts, i will be using half plates ie. one bolt hole only. this in turn moves one side of the upper arm away from or closer to the chassis. which leads the axis of the wheel forward or backwards. now basically ive just been working the plates into combinations where both camber and caster are as close as i can get to spec then get the toe set. sorry for the long post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Martin: You probably have loose tie rods, idler arm, or CL. Have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth (engine off) while you look underneath at the joints to see where the play is coming from. I know you say you just replaced the CL, but I've had 'em go south in fairly short order when offroading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 i didn't have time to check anything and it poured buckets yesterday. not sure if i'll have time to look into this any further today either but as soon as i do i'll update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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