Starting engine project

[Earth1]

My replacement engine showed up today, so let the madness begin. I'm going to have a lot of questions. I'll try to be as specific as posible but I'm learning as I go here so bare with me. Now without further a do, my first hiccup...

 

What is the best way to attach the engine to an engine stand? The FSM mentions an engine attachment and sub-attachment in the "SPECIAL SERVICE TOOLS" list in the front of section EM, but do I have to get those from a dealer? Is it OK to bolt the stand to the transmission mounting holes? If so does anyone know the thread pitch for the transmission-to-block bolts?

 

I got it up on the hoist tonight and started to take off some of the cut hoses, wires, exaust, etc. I'm going to be woking on this a little every night after work until it's done. Should get to the actual install next weekend if everything goes fairly smooth. I'm taking pics but it may take me a while to get them up. This is costing a fortune.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Earth1

[88pathoffroad]

Bolt it right to the stand using the tranny mount holes, yeah. I dunno what size, never been in there. Sorry.

[Earth1]

I just took one of my tranny bolts off to get some longer ones like it. Engine is on the stand and pretty much free of all the unusable hoses, wires, etc. They just cut off everything instead of disconnecting stuff, including the engine mounts which aren't useable now . This engine is amazingly clean. It still had a Japanese oil filter on it which made me feel a little more sure it came from Jap. and not some junkyard in New Jersey.

 

So far I'm down to the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat area. I was alarmed to find quite a bit of wet rust/mineral deposits in the water inlet hose. The camshaft and crankshaft sprockets had a little bit of surface rust, just wire brushed them a little. The thermostat housing looks like it will need replaced, it too has some corrosion. When I got the water pump off, the mating (seal) and inside areas have some surface rust. The waterpump bolts are all pretty corroded, hopefully I can find some new ones in the next few days.

 

The exaust manifolds had 1 broken stud. Rear passenger. It was broken while the engine was running, the area around that side of the hole is black. The broken stud came out no problem with an extractor.

 

I removed a back camshaft bolt and the camshaft sprocket turned just a little, maybe 10 degrees. :X Is that a problem? The FSM said not to let the camshaft & crankhaft sprockets move once timing belt is off.

 

My questions:

 

1. For aligning the timing belt for removal, both camshaft punchmarks can't really line up at the same time, so I split the difference. Should just one be lined up to the mark exactly, or is this OK?

 

2. Is some rust in the t-stat/ water pump area normal? A little on the sprockets? Will cleaning these up with some emery cloth and fine wire brushes be OK?

 

3.There are some burrs on the water inlet on the block. Should I knock those down for a smoother flow?

 

4. How much can one camshaft turn seperately of the other shafts without screwing anything up?

 

5. Will the camshafts slide out of the heads without taking off the intake manifold and taking heads off? If I have to take the heads apart I will replace the lifters and probably do some smoothing in the manifold. Since this engine is at about 50K miles I was hoping to leave the heads on and not change lifters.

 

6. If cams will slide out, how do I get them started?

 

I have never done anything like this. I am actually having a lot of fun with this. I was going to download pics today, but I forgot my camera over at my buddy's garage lastnight. I'll try to get those up tonight. Do any of the free photo hosters offer longer hosting than a month?

Edited March 12, 2006 by Earth1

[Slick]

I just took one of my tranny bolts off to get some longer ones like it. Engine is on the stand and pretty much free of all the unusable hoses, wires, etc. They just cut off everything instead of disconnecting stuff, including the engine mounts which aren't useable now  . This engine is amazingly clean. It still had a Japanese oil filter on it which made me feel a little more sure it came from Jap. and not some junkyard in New Jersey.

 

So far I'm down to the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat area. I was alarmed to find quite a bit of wet rust/mineral deposits in the water inlet hose. The camshaft and crankshaft sprockets had a little bit of surface rust, just wire brushed them a little. The thermostat housing looks like it will need replaced, it too has some corrosion. When I got the water pump off, the mating (seal) and inside areas have some surface rust. The waterpump bolts are all pretty corroded, hopefully I can find some new ones in the next few days.

 

The exaust manifolds had 1 broken stud. Rear passenger. It was broken while the engine was running, the area around that side of the hole is black. The broken stud came out no problem with an extractor.

 

I removed a back camshaft bolt and the camshaft sprocket turned just a little, maybe 10 degrees. :X  Is that a problem? The FSM said not to let the camshaft & crankhaft sprockets move once timing belt is off.

 

My questions:

 

1. For aligning the timing belt for removal, both camshaft punchmarks can't really line up at the same time, so I split the difference. Should just one be lined up to the mark exactly, or is this OK?

 

2. Is some rust in the t-stat/ water pump area normal? A little on the sprockets? Will cleaning these up with some emery cloth and fine wire brushes be OK?

 

3.There are some burrs on the water inlet on the block. Should I knock those down for a smoother flow?

 

4. How much can one camshaft turn seperately of the other shafts without screwing anything up?

 

5. Will the camshafts slide out of the heads without taking off the intake manifold and taking heads off? If I have to take the heads apart I will replace the lifters and probably do some smoothing in the manifold. Since this engine is at about 50K miles I was hoping to leave the heads on and not change lifters.

 

6. If cams will slide out, how do I get them started?

 

I have never done anything like this. I am actually having a lot of fun with this. I was going to download pics today, but I forgot my camera over at my buddy's garage lastnight. I'll try to get those up tonight. Do any of the free photo hosters offer longer hosting than a month?

here comes slick to save the daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!!!! lol. kidding.

ok.. pm me your address and i can mail you spare t'stat housing bolts. You can also get them at any local parts store. :contract:

FYI: GASOLINE IS YOUR FRIEND. i should know.. cleaning stuff i went through 3 gallons of it. sly no need to chuck your t'stat housing... carb cleaner is also your friend. spray some down it... you'd be suprised. If you are careful not to get the hose part of the housing tube wet with gas, then gas is MUCH quicker and cleans them up nicely.

don't worry about rust deposits.. the motor has been sitting for a while... hell.. my motor i turned into the purple turd had been sitting 5 years... mmm....

you will have to drain the radiator every 300-500 miles for the first 1,000 or so anyway cuz wait til you see what yer rad looks like after just 1/2 hour of running the motor... mmm.... ugly....

drop yer cam sprockets (and bolts) into a pan of gas... and clean them.. come out nice n shiney

no worries on the cam.. you can simply loosen up the valve rail a little to free up some movement and put her back to TDC (just that cam if everything was TDC before).. then tighten the rail back down. you may need to loosen it again when you torque back down the sprockets on reinstall. i had the same problem.

Both cams (after doing above mentioned maneuver) should be on the marks... make sure the crank is at TDC. are you pulling the heads? if so, you can check TDC (as well as checking crank marks) when #1 & 4 pistons are 'up" at the top, you know you have TDC. (See pic) If it's not.. simply put the timing pulley back on the crank and flip her over til she is.

answered Q #2 alread.

#3. not quite sure what you mean.... but yeah.. oh.. ok.. :idea: my light just came on.. be careful not to change the shape of the surface.. i had a itty bitty burr and i left the sucker.. had other things to do.

#4 answered above... no worries

#5 you can take the cams out with heads off, FYI.. while you're there i highly suggest you change the head gasket. i can hook you up with a link to parts dinasaur in AZ who i got a complete gasket overhaul set from for $113 and it arrived in 3 days. -study-

 

Host all your pics on photobucket.... it's free, and allows LOTS of pics to be hosted.

 

good luck, ask away, and check out my pics n posts here on my motor build:

 

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=7681 -bounce-

 

#6

Edited March 12, 2006 by Slick

[Earth1]

Thanks Slick! I thought you may jump in.

So the valve rail has to be loosened before turning back to TDC? I turned it back a little without doing that first.

 

I'll try and clean up the tstat housing. Is it bad to get gas on the housing hose?

 

Didn't think about changing the coolant a few times, good info.

 

#5 you can take the cams out with heads on block, but you WILL have to take everything off around them. FYI.. while you're there i highly suggest you change the head gasket

Do you mean take off rocker panels, etc.; or cam sprockets, bolts, and outter stuff? I was hoping to not pull the heads.

 

Oh and the cyls are 5,3,1 back to front pass side and 6,4,2 back to front driv side right?

[Slick]

Thanks Slick! I thought you may jump in.

So the valve rail has to be loosened before turning back to TDC? I turned it back a little without doing that first.

 

I'll try and clean up the tstat housing. Is it bad to get gas on the housing hose?

 

Didn't think about changing the coolant a few times, good info.

 

 

Do you mean take off rocker panels, etc.; or cam sprockets, bolts, and outter stuff? I was hoping to not pull the heads.

 

Oh and the cyls are 5,3,1 back to front pass side and 6,4,2 back to front driv side right?

gasoline if left for any amount of time will eat any hoses/lines/rubber. oh yes. if you dry it quick it will do no harm.. i got my big ol brush up in there in the gas (i held the hosed end out of the gas) and cleaned away, then immediately dried it off with a rag.

 

Sometimes the cams will not eaily rotate (they will keep "jumping") and so if they jump, you will not be able to get it lined back up without loosening the valve rail. If you can turn the cam without it jumping, more power to yah!

 

Pulling the heads is simple really... if you have most everything else off up there it is a wise idea to just git-r-done on the head gaskets.. you don't want to get 1,000 miles down the road n blow the head gasket out.. that would royally suck fo sho.

 

yes. when standing in front of your pathy, to your left (which is the RH side of the motor) it is 1, 3 & 5. to your right (motor LH side) is 2, 4 & 6.

 

if you are gunna change cams, and go to alllllllll that trouble, then i would pull the heads, cuz unless you are a very experienced mechanic, someone will have to do the valve job for you thus needing the head and all.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Slick

[Earth1]

if you are gunna change cams, and go to alllllllll that trouble, then i would pull the heads, cuz unless you are a very experienced mechanic, someone will have to do the valve job for you thus needing the head and all. 

 

Nope I am not a very experienced mechanic, in fact I am a very UNEXPERIENCED mechanic. I wish I had my manual here (its at the garage). This is all still so new to me so I have to refer to the illustrations to make sense of anything. So at the least I have to remove the intake mainfold and upper head stuff as a bare minimum to get the cams out/in? If so I'll definately do the headgask. What exactly does a valve job entail and is it necessary when replacing cams? Maybe I should just go to the garage before I ask anymore questions. Problem is there is no inernet at my buddy's place where I'm doing the work.

[Slick]

Nope I am not a very experienced mechanic, in fact I am a very UNEXPERIENCED mechanic. I wish I had my manual here (its at the garage). This is all still so new to me so I have to refer to the illustrations to make sense of anything. So at the least I have to remove the intake mainfold and upper head stuff as a bare minimum to get the cams out/in? If so I'll definately do the headgask. What exactly does a valve job entail and is it necessary when replacing cams? Maybe I should just go to the garage before I ask anymore questions. Problem is there is no inernet at my buddy's place where I'm doing the work.

let me ask you this......... WHY are you changing cams? is there a specific reason? are you upgrading? and yes, a valve job is highly recommended with a new cam. even I can't do a valve job.. though i may try to experiment on my other set of heads.... for replacing a cam, it is not a simple job of popping the valve rail n presto new cam.. there is much work that goes into it.

[Earth1]

Yeah I have upgraded cams. I thought the valves would be OK on this 50K mile engine. So I am officially in over my "head" ?

[Earth1]

Per Slick's advice I'm going to start calling some mechanics to get the price on headwork.

[Slick]

Yeah I have upgraded cams. I thought the valves would be OK on this 50K mile engine. So I am officially in over my "head" ?

you are by no means "in over your head".. have faith.. no.. per our conversation on the phone earlier.. you can get away with using the original valves, but they will still have to be reseated after the cam is in place.. so still in need of someone to do that for you, but definitely cheaper

[Earth1]

OK, thanks guys a ton for the help. :bow: I'm probably gonna give it a whack. I'll call around & see what it'll cost to have someone else do it, but I think I can figur it out. I have the FSM and a pretty handy friend to help. At this point I'm in no hurry so (worst case scenario) even if I screw something up I can always hire a mechanic to finish up.

 

Didn't get too far tonight, it's unusually cold here and the garage isn't heated.

 

[Slick]

OK, thanks guys a ton for the help. :bow: I'm probably gonna give it a whack. I'll call around & see what it'll cost to have someone else do it, but I think I can figur it out. I have the FSM and a pretty handy friend to help. At this point I'm in no hurry so (worst case scenario) even if I screw something up I can always hire a mechanic to finish up.

 

Didn't get too far tonight, it's unusually cold here and the garage isn't heated.

 

even if you screw something up you have a spare set of heads right? sly

[Earth1]

even if you screw something up you have a spare set of heads right?

True. Although with all the problems I'm havin with the engine in my truck now, they may need some TLC. I can't wait to get back in the garage tonight and start taking stuff apart. Hoping to at least get the intake and rocker covers off and get a better idea of what I'm dealing with.

 

When I started taking all the gargbage off, the manifolds were some of the first to go. FSM says to keep the manifolds on the head when removing. The manifolds might still be around, but I kcufed up the stupid little studs getting them out. Should I go find some bolts to temporarily reattach the manifolds? I can see how the heads might get warped during removal if they weren't on.

 

For removing the hydraulic lifters, how do I attach the wire and not scratch the surface of the lifters?

 

When checking the head for warpage, do I just use a regular metal straight edge like a ruler? I have no idea.

 

What should I expect to pay for a dial gauge and micrometer?

 

Oh and what all did that gasket kit come with? Sounds like the way to go, if I don't end up with a bunch of stuff I don't need.

[unccpathfinder]

For removing the hydraulic lifters, how do I attach the wire and not scratch the surface of the lifters?

 

i never used the wire i've used thread and then flipped them over so they wouldnt fall out...i think it says not to do that but i've never had a lifter tick and u can always prime them which i think the manual talks about

 

What should I expect to pay for a dial gauge and micrometer?

 

dial gages are like $50 if they're cheap they can go on upwards not sure about micrometers

 

Oh and what all did that gasket kit come with? Sounds like the way to go, if I don't end up with a bunch of stuff I don't need.

 

i got a full gasket set from napa and it came with head gaskets, exhaust gaskets for the manifolds to heads plus the connections, intake gaskets, thermostat gasket, rear main seal plus that lil gasket in the back, some seals for the oil pick up, oil pan, cam oil seals, valve cover gaskets, water pump gasket and some other things that i know im forgetting and some i have no clue what they went to

[Slick]

K9 might be able to better help you with teh lifter thing.. haven't gone into taking my heads apart yet... (check my thread as K9 gave me advice on that procedure)

 

gasket set.. here's a linky to the one i bought... most excellent

 

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product372.html

 

as for you heads.. a machine shop will be able to test them for any cracks/leaks, but you can flip a sucker upside down, (make sure surface is completely clean with no gasket left on it) take a straight edge metal ruler and lay it from corner to corner.. there is a certain size feeler gauge you stick in the center of the head (you are allowed so much of a gap there) but i can't remember what size gauge it is.. it does say in the manual.. even my haynes manual had the gap...

 

 

manifolds on with heads? WTF...... noooo..... i took all the crap n doo dads off then pulled my heads..... easy peezy.... just check the untightening order

like i would leave my thorleys on there to pull my heads off.. makes noooo sense to me on that one.... the less crap that's left on there the easier it is to remove heads -study-

Edited March 14, 2006 by Slick

[Earth1]

Spent a while last night cleaning stuff up, removing old gaskets (PITA) and unhooking harnesses, lines etc. It's taking me a while because I'm stoping to take lots of pics and meticulously labeling EVERYTHING I take off with tiny little stickers and listing a description of what the stickers are for. A1, A2,A3, A4... I'm pretty much doing this by myself and asking my friend stupid little questions here and there. Still unpluggin away.

[unccpathfinder]

well dont give up and thats always good its better to have too much information to look back to on paper than not enough to remember in ure head

[Slick]

that's exactly what i did when i first pulled my motor, and good god will help upon reinstall... you'd be suprised how much you forget in a week or so.... bit tedious but well worth the trouble in the long run.

[unccpathfinder]

you'd be suprised how much you forget in a week or so

 

well its been a while since i've messed with mine...about a month or so whenever the funds ran out and i get paid tomorrow...so this weekend if its nice im gonna see about getting the starter back in and fillin her up with some fluids...im just hoping i remembered to do everything im going to spend a lot of time double checking everything...hope i dont miss anything and it fires up...but it'll prob be cold and rainy all weekend

[sw]

gotta hand it to you guys.

 

jumping in feet first is the way to go. the amount of stuff you are going to learn is tremendous.

 

keep up the good work

Edited March 15, 2006 by sw

[Earth1]

K. Got down to the rocker covers. I'm going to have to clean the garage some tomorrow before I take one off. I can imagine what a mess a little dirt could cause. :oops: I think I am going to chance using the original valves partially because I don't have the money for much more work without putting the project on hold for a while. I'm due for an emission test in 3 weeks and there's no way my current engine will pass. So I'm getting in a bit of a bind.

 

I think I'm missing something here. Why do the valves have to be reseated after the new cams are installed? The manual doesn't say anything about that.

 

Yep I am learning a ton. I already feel like I know so much more about my engine. I never really did too much wrenchin before the Pathy, and never took machine shop in HS so this is like motor 101 for me.

[Slick]

K. Got down to the rocker covers. I'm going to have to clean the garage some tomorrow before I take one off. I can imagine what a mess a little dirt could cause. :oops: I think I am going to chance using the original valves partially because I don't have the money for much more work without putting the project on hold for a while. I'm due for an emission test in 3 weeks and there's no way my current engine will pass. So I'm getting in a bit of a bind.

 

I think I'm missing something here. Why do the valves have to be reseated after the new cams are installed? The manual doesn't say anything about that.

 

Yep I am learning a ton. I already feel like I know so much more about my engine. I never really did too much wrenchin before the Pathy, and never took machine shop in HS so this is like motor 101 for me.

ok. you must put each and every valve back EXACTLY where they came from. VERY important.

check VERYclosely to the vales, valve springs for any warpage, burrs, damage or burning. if, after cleaning, they all look good, clean the valve seats really well and all the valves, etc.. and reinstall where they originally came from.

make sure you check the valves closely for any warpage/burrs.

[88pathoffroad]

Why do the valves have to be reseated after the new cams are installed? The manual doesn't say anything about that.

Technically speaking, you can install new cams with the heads still on. You just have to replace the lifters to go with the new cams. If you take the valves out, put them back in where they all came from, yes. A bit of lapping compound on each and a few spins and it should be nice and tight again. Clean off the lapping compound before reassembly...

 

Slick, define "reseated" for us, please.

[Slick]

yes. A bit of lapping compound on each and a few spins and it should be nice and tight again. Clean off the lapping compound before reassembly...

 

Slick, define "reseated" for us, please.

sly you just did tyvm