Starting engine project

[88pathoffroad]

you are by no means "in over your head".. have faith.. no.. per our conversation on the phone earlier.. you can get away with using the original valves, but they will still have to be reseated after the cam is in place.. so still in need of someone to do that for you, but definitely cheaper

So...you basically told him he needed to take the heads off to replace the cams, which isn't true. Did he just do a bunch of unnecessary work or was he going to do that anyway?

[Slick]

it is a damn site easier to take them off for a first timer and do that kind of work than it is to leave them on and fiddle fart around with them to get everything off and if you just bought a motor you knew nothing about and someone told you it had 40,000 miles on it but you have noooooo idea how that motor was treated wouldn't you want to take a few x-tra bolts out n change the head gasket while you were there? i sure as hell would

[88pathoffroad]

I was hoping to not pull the heads.

 

Hmm.

[Slick]

my advice is purely just that. advice. take it or leave it. this is my second motor and i am purely advising josh to take the extra time and do it right or possibly end up like me having to pull the motor out a year later to do the things i should have done in the first place. I said the same thing as him last year..... crap... i don't want to pull the heads. so i didn't. and here i am $600 poorer with another motor to replace the motor i should have taken care of the first time. that is why this time i did it ALL. (within financial reason, but all gaskets and other parts were changed. my original motor will be built right with much more $$ spent on it) no bein lazy, no skipping things....

I am purely trying to keep josh from getting into a situation that could easily end up like mine. because it really sucks, and for the extra few hours of work (not like it's hard), and a bit more fiddle fartin around, he can have a much clearer picture of his heads and the cam job will be easier to do as he will understand it better, whilst also ensuring not having to possibly remove/work on his motor again in 6 months/a years time for something he could have done while he "was there".

 

i have hopefully learned from my mistakes, expensive mistakes that should never have arisen had i taken the extra bit of time.

i am by no means saying anything will go wrong with his motor in a years time just because he choses not to do the head gasket or change his t'stat, but it sure is good insurance to know it's done. :bow:

Edited March 15, 2006 by Slick

[k9sar]

digital camera was my friend when I tore into mine. Nothing like standing with a part saying "hmmm... now where'd this come from?" or having your kids mix your neatly sorted piles of bolts etc so now you'll never know where they go.

[Earth1]

Thanks for the advise Slick and I see what you're sayin. Heads are still on the new engine. I'll wait until I get a look in there before I decide what to do. If it turns out to be something that I want done, but have to pay someone else and wait to get it back then I don't knowif I'll do it, honestly. IF I think I can do it without much extra $, and can still get er to emissions in time than I will. Thanks. It would be a gamble and I appreciate your concern.

 

I have a lot of digipics- and all the hardware labeled in a ziplock and taped to its corresponding part. Hopefully I don't end up with extra crap or missing anything.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Earth1

[Slick]

Thanks for the advise Slick and I see what you're sayin. Heads are still on the new engine. I'll wait until I get a look in there before I decide what to do. If it turns out to be something that I want done, but have to pay someone else and wait to get it back then I don't knowif I'll do it, honestly. IF I think I can do it without much extra $, and can still get er to emissions in time than I will. Thanks. It would be a gamble and I appreciate your concern.

if you decide not to do it at the immediate moment, you can use your other heads as guinea pigs and do the cam job on them, (that's what i'm doing )leaving you more than enough time to get through emissions, while still allowing you to try to do the job yourself, lest saiving you $$ and stress.

then you can pull the heads (with the motor still in) and install the other heads with new cams when you have time. just an idea. Bit of extra work there, but at least you'll make all deadlines with no stress

i do not, however, know the condition of your other heads,etc.. so that would be something to be taken into consideration there.

 

[Earth1]

Made my first dumb move tonight. I thought the rocker cover seal was like RTV or something because it wouldn't come loose so I sliced through the middle of the gap. Guess what? IT'S A RUBBER SEAL! I guess I'll borrow one from my old engine.

 

I got the rocker arms and shaft out of one side tonight. Didn't take the lifter assembly off tonight because I couldn't find any wire to hold the lifters.

 

One of the rocker cover screws on the Left side is under the distributor. One of the distributor bolts has a little foil band around it with Japanese writing. Is this a like a warning seal not to re-use? Didn't see anything about it in the manual, and my Japanese aint so good. Just wanted to make sure before I take the dist. off. Here's what I'm talking about.

 

Sorry about the huge pic, photobucket wasn't resizing. I'll resize and get some more pics up tomorrrow.

 

Edited March 17, 2006 by Earth1

[k9sar]

I believe that it is a warning that if you remove that bolt, you release the ancient evil Gods of the Pathy.

[Earth1]

I thought it might be something like that.

[Earth1]

new engine

 

up on the hoist

 

got it mounted on the stand

 

some of the stuff off

 

broken exaust manifold stud

 

rust in the water pump area

 

got the intake manifold off

my first look into a head

 

rockers off

[Slick]

I believe that it is a warning that if you remove that bolt, you release the ancient evil Gods of the Pathy.

i almost wet myself!!! rolmfao!!!!!

 

anyhoo.. that just means the seal is OEM or whatever.. bust it off n carry on. yes..the dist has to come out before the LH valve cover can be removed. remember to mark both the dist and the base plate it comes out of for easier install

[Earth1]

I've been getting a little distracted with snowboarding, but things are moving along.

Here's where I am. New cams installed. Valve covers on. Intake mani on. Most wiring harnesses, etc. connnected. I just realized that somewhere during that process one of the cam sprockets turned off it's mark. Now I'm concerned that I may have installed the cams off TDC. Just to be sure I'm going to do it again. Now I know what I'm doing it should be easy. Until that no real problems. Is there another way to make sure I'm all lined up?

 

Some of the gaskets are hard to find.

1. Intake manifold gasket. I just made one from hi-temp roll gasket. Should work, right?

2. Rear camshaft plate gaskets. Made 2 from the same stuff.

3. Front water pump gaskets. FSM shows 3; 1 lower & 2 sides. I don't recall seeing any on the old w.p. and the new w.p. only came with a rear gasket. I can't even tell where they attach. Maybe they mate to the rear belt cover. Two stores I've asked don't have any like that. Could I just use RTV? Does anyone remember seeing these?

4. Lower water pump seals. They are about 2" pieces of rubber coated metal rod. The originals are in decent shape so I was thinking of reusing with some RTV. Or should I keep looking for new ones?

 

Thorley headers come with a hot air pickup tube. They say to install it with a clamp on what looks like the RH side. Does this tube really do anything? Looks kinda janky.

[k9sar]

I've been getting a little distracted with snowboarding, but things are moving along.

Here's where I am. New cams installed. Valve covers on. Intake mani on. Most wiring harnesses, etc. connnected. I just realized that somewhere during that process one of the cam sprockets turned off it's mark. Now I'm concerned that I may have installed the cams off TDC. Just to be sure I'm going to do it again. Now I know what I'm doing it should be easy. Until that no real problems. Is there another way to make sure I'm all lined up?

 

Some of the gaskets are hard to find.

1. Intake manifold gasket. I just made one from hi-temp roll gasket. Should work, right?

2. Rear camshaft plate gaskets. Made 2 from the same stuff.

3. Front water pump gaskets. FSM shows 3; 1 lower & 2 sides. I don't recall seeing any on the old w.p. and the new w.p. only came with a rear gasket. I can't even tell where they attach. Maybe they mate to the rear belt cover. Two stores I've asked don't have any like that. Could I just use RTV? Does anyone remember seeing these?

4. Lower water pump seals. They are about 2" pieces of rubber coated metal rod. The originals are in decent shape so I was thinking of reusing with some RTV. Or should I keep looking for new ones?

 

Thorley headers come with a hot air pickup tube. They say to install it with a clamp on what looks like the RH side. Does this tube really do anything? Looks kinda janky.

intake manifold gasket should be fine

cam plate gaskets just retain grease so should also be fine

water pump... the gasket goes between the wp and teh block. The other things are rubber seals that are probably stuck on your lower timing belt cover.

The rubber coated sticks... I recall seeing them and reused mine. Smeared a little RTV on them first but I don't recall if they are any more than a dust protector

hot-air pickup.... might be to run to your EGR valve. Drivers side?

[Earth1]

Thanks k9.

So is there an easier way to make sure the valves and cylinders are in the right spot without taking the valve covers off? I'm probably just being paranoid, but I want to be sure.

[Slick]

we got that handled last night right josh? is it all ok now?

[Earth1]

Yup thanks Rachel. Heading to the garage now to gtrdun.

[Slick]

Yup thanks Rachel. Heading to the garage now to gtrdun.

schweeeeeeeeet. good luck!

[k9sar]

just don't paint the damned thing purple!

[Earth1]

Ok guys I think I may have figured out my hangup. LH and crank sprockets are where the should be. I used the new t-belt (with the marks) and the t-belt cover (by holding in front of the cam sprockets) to check alignment. When the RH sprocket is on the 'stock' mark the lifters are not down. When the lifters are down, the RH cam sprocket is off by a couple of teeth. Since my aftermarket cams are changing the intake/exhuast cycle, I think that would change the timing belt alignment. Since the crank and LH cam haven't moved, the RH cam is off the 'stock' mark by the difference for the new cams position.

 

The lifters have to be down (flat) to tighten the rocker shafts. When the shafts are tight, the sprocket won't move. When the lifters are down shouldn't the camshaft be in the correct position, regardless of the 'stock' marks on the t-belt?

 

Oh duh. I guess I could always slide the old cam in the RH side to see if that changes anything. Anyway, will aftermarket cams change the alignment of the t-belt marks from stock?

 

I hope this revelation is right, and I won't be so confused.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Earth1

[88pathoffroad]

The marks all need to line up, regardless of lifter position or cam design. It shouldn't be off by that much.

[Earth1]

I'm confused. If I put the cam that's off in the right position, how do I go about tightening the rocker shafts while a couple of the lifters are up? Won't that bend the the R-shaft? I don't think if I start cranking down the R-shaft bolts that the lifters will move. I think I'm missing something here. When I turn the cam without the rockers, shaft, and lifter assembly on, it doesn't seem to change where the lifters sit when it's all back on. When the R-shaft is down tight (lifters down) the cam won't move. :confused:

 

Could something be off somewhere else that's messing me up?

Edited March 25, 2006 by Earth1

[Slick]

ok. this is ONLY my OPINION..... as i have not done a cam job yet, i do not have hands on with the intricate workings.

at TDC i had 2 rods/valves UP when you look at the head from below.

remember, you have new cams, they will not turn easily. when i went to adjust one of my cams back to TDC (it was 1 tooth off) i had to loosen the rocker arms so i could turn the cam without it "clunking" forward n backwards. then i tightened it back down to torque (12-14lbs i believe) and all was good.

without being there i can only guess at what your issue is and from my experience.

[88pathoffroad]

She's right. You have to loosen the rockers up and then put on the belt, tension it up, THEN tighten up the rockers when the cams are able to rotate without causing interference problems.

[Earth1]

Allright I'm gettin close to being ready to put this thing in. I was being shtoopid about setting the cam angle. when the rocker shafts are tightened, they pull down the springs like you all told me. I don't know why I thought the rocker arms would bend.

 

I got the t-belt on and tensioned. When I turn the crankshaft a few times to settle the belt, the belt moves forward on all 3 sprockets just a smidge. I was expecting the belt to sit in the middle of all sprockets. The belt is on with arrrows forward. The tension is set with just about 14mm of deflection (using a 14mm wrench as a guide), and will twist just about 90'. Is it normal for the t-belt to sit over the front side of the sprockets by maybe about 1-2mm?

 

Also, how do you hold the crankshaft still while tighening the bolt? I guess it would help if I took the covers off.

 

That reminds me... Are the rubber washers for the screws on t-belt cover just standard rubber washers? They are pretty dry and def need replaced.

 

I forgot to put that long water inlet tube on between the block and heads (from the t-stat to the back of the engine) before I put the rear t-belt cover, cam sprockets and tbelt/tensioner on. What a annoying way to waste time.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Earth1