OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Pull the spark plugs and turn the nut on the end of the crankshaft with a socket. If there's fluid in your cylinders, It'll come out the spark plug holes. So where is this nut? Is it at the front of the engine? Do I need to remove anything to get to the nut? What I was hoping would happen is that once I remove the spark plugs, enough fluid will shoot out of the holes so I can put the plugs back in. Can I just try another kickstart instead of turning the crank if I can find the nut? Sorry for being such a car repair n00b! NPORA rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Jesus.. the whole can... that possibility didn't even cross my mind. I'd just take out all (even the bitch one) sparkplugs and crank it by starting the ignition..... just make sure nobody's leaning over the engine while you're doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Jesus.. the whole can... that possibility didn't even cross my mind. I'd just take out all (even the bitch one) sparkplugs and crank it by starting the ignition..... just make sure nobody's leaning over the engine while you're doing it. Haha, you underestimated my stupidity, didn't you...big mistake! What you are saying makes sense...remove the plugs. But then you say crank it. Are you saying crank it using the key, therefore using the starter? Or do I crank it by turning the nut on the crankshaft pulley? Or can I simply kickstart the car like we tried before? Thanks so much for the help! :bow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Now I get it, turn the key, stupid!!! So what will the engine be doing at this point? Trying to turn over but spraying cleaner out of the plug holes? Will I ruin my starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) Once all the plugs are removed there is no danger to pistons or valves as the fluid would have an escape route. By cranking with the ignition it you'd actually make it shoot out from the combustion chambers... I'd actually disconnect the fuel pump relay before to prevent any other... stupid... urghh... interesting problems arising... like fire... LFMAO EDIT: starter will be fine.. Edited December 18, 2005 by Filthy Luker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 But then you say crank it. Are you saying crank it using the key, therefore using the starter? Yes.... Make sure no one is in the engine compartment, and there is no flame source near by. My guess is you will geyser 6 fountains of flamable mist several times... Do you have a fire extinguisher ? If not have a garden hose ready. Not that you should need it, but lets just not ignore safety... Crank it till the cylinders are not spraying out mist, clean the plugs with brake cleaner, reinstall and hopefully she'll fire right up. That being the case, you'll want to change the oil soon... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Unbelieveable! Sorry to sound lazy, I'm not when the Pathy is on the line, but how important is it to remove the 6th plug? I don't have the tools under the rear floor like I'm supposed too. Here's a fun story: August 2005- The day before I drive with Dad from Atlanta to IU for my freshman year I buy 6 NGK Iridiums to install. The first 4 go really quickly, #5 is a bit tougher due to the crappy tools I have. So when I put the socket over the plug, it falls from top of the hole onto the spark plug. This was just before noon. So now I'm freaking out, and I try getting my hand in there to pull it out, (you know how deep the plugs are in). So I go to the hardware store to get a long, extendable magnet and a pole thingy with mirror. The magnet gets the socket out, so I reattach the socket back onto the ratchet to get unscrew the plug. Well, for some reason the socket is not catching the plug. The plugs are in so deep I can't see in there even with a mirror and a flashlight. So I go to a mechanic running on five cylinders, and he has no idea of what happened. So, being 5:00, I call a dealership and set up an appointment early in the morning. Keep in mind I have a 600 mile drive to do today. I get to the dealer and the mechanic takes it in. An hour later I'm called to the serivce desk. I'm thinking that the truck is ready to go. No no, the problem is that the porcelain shattered when the socket dropped, surrounding the threads. The socket also bent the metal rod inside the porcelain, so there was no way to get a socket around the plug. They called a guy in with special tools. Another hour later, they got the porcelain out and were able to BREAK THE PLUG IN HALF!!! They changed the 6th plug too and only charged me for an hours worth of labor! Team Nissan of Marietta, GA saved my A$$! When I had my 4.0 Jeep, it was the first vehicle I had with over 20k miles. It had Bosch Platinums, but I wanted the original Champions in there. So I bought the Champion Truck series, but they were a little longer than factory. Well, the electrode hit the top of the piston (showed a lot of carbon on the electrode) so I loosened them a bit. I don't know what the hell I was thinking. On the way up to boarding school, #4 plug fell out on the highway, taking the wire with it! There was a loud popping sound, like a tire was flat. Long story short, I had to call my dad (an hour away) to take me to the auto parts store the next town over. We got a wire set and changed it on the highway at night. That 4.0 is tough as nails. Another time the Jeep overheated. I was in the fast lane as coolant was spewing everywhere (the radiator tanks seals had failed) so I, like an idiot, drove it to the Jeep dealer a half mile away instead of pulling over. The temp needle was in the red past 260 and the "Check gages" light was chiming. I shut it off just in time. The dealer raped me for $1000 for a new radiator and serp belt. They didn't even change the oil! The 4.0 was just fine after that. No head gasket issues, no complaints whatsoever. And it consistently got 20 MPG. I overheated my Mom's 2003 Grand Cherokee 4.0 when I spun into a ditch. The Jeep hit a ridge that busted the radiator and spilled allof the coolant. I didn't know the radiator busted at the time, I just thought there was a bent bumper cover. I left it running waiting for the Good Samaritan with a Trooper and a tow rope to get me out. We heard this boiling sound, and sure enough it was the Jeep. We switched it off, and of course, the 4.0 suffered no damage. Best engine ever to come from Chrysler. So, I don't like changing anything, but I want to learn. I can't tell you how frustrated Dad is, because whenever I come home I always start wrenching and end up immobilizing my car. EVERYTIME! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Was I supposed to have tools underneath my rear cargo floor to take out the 6th plug? I don't have those anymore, and I could have sworn I did last summer! I'm gonna take out the 6th plug so I don't bend an rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 So how does this gameplan look: Knowing that the engine has ingested an awesome amount of liquid I'm going to say that all of the plugs have to come out. I need to hand crank the engine over for a half dozen revolutions or so. Then with the plugs still out crank the engine over for 10-20 seconds with spark and fuel disabled (by taking out the fuel pump relay) until the air coming out of the plug holes feels dry. Then reinstall the plugs, reenable spark and fuel and try to start it. The battery could be pretty low by now, so it would be a good idea to put it on a charger overnight before attempting to use the starter. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmorgan4 Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 The one thing I'd be careful about is making sure not to keep the starter going for 10-20 seconds at a time. Just crank it over for a few seconds and let it sit. It wouldn't hurt putting a towel or some sort of rag over each cylinder to absorb some of the cleaner and avoid some of the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Cool, the towel is a good idea. Okay, one last question? Where is the crankshaft nut that I have to turn once teh sparkplugs are out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Update: This morning my Dad and I went out and took 5 plugs out. The plugs are 5k miles old. There was no cleaner in the cylinders, nothing shot up and nothing was under pressure. There was, however, a lot of carbon buildup on I think cylinder #4 (if you are in driver's seat, the plug on the right closest to the front bumper). We are just going to get it towed. I will need to ask the mechanic that I go to if he can do it. I really don't want to go to the dealer, because I'm sure they will either be so damn expensive or just say "Yeah, you need a new engine". Any more thoughts? We tried kickstarting it again and it the engine is still seized. It will not start with the starter either. I'm really scared on this one and it is a possibility that I won't have a car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Any more thoughts? Yea... You said that you took out only 5 plugs when repeatedly it was pointed out to remove all of them. You said nothing shot out and the combustion chambers were dry. How in the hell were you able to see that? You didn't crank the engine for anything to shoot out. You really don't need much to hydrolock your engine... in most cases 1 ml would do it. I am surprised that you're so quick to give up and be ready to be charged by mechanics through the roof without doing the extra work and troubleshooting yourself.... Bah.. it's not my money but yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 gees guys seems abit strange that people were so quick to jump to the hydrolocked story..... ok i did read the wheels locked apon a push start, but a seized engine from tb cleaner, pfffft. as for the tb cleaner, ive dumped a whole cans in numerous cars before, yeh there hard to start after, but hold the 'go peddle' flat to the floor and crank. and they always start. sort of seems to me if you gone digging in to tb you may have disturbed some wiring. and the computer is not letting the coils supply spark. if this is the case this offers a very simple explaination for the wheels locking upon a push start, being a fairly new pathy the engine will have good compression, once the clutch is released & in gear the wheels lock due to compression of the engine where normally there would be spark to kick the engine over. tip for noobs: dont leave the igintion on, for a petrol engine, for extened times - no good for the coil packs. hope it all works out for the best in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Yea... You said that you took out only 5 plugs when repeatedly it was pointed out to remove all of them. You said nothing shot out and the combustion chambers were dry. How in the hell were you able to see that? You didn't crank the engine for anything to shoot out. You really don't need much to hydrolock your engine... in most cases 1 ml would do it. I am surprised that you're so quick to give up and be ready to be charged by mechanics through the roof without doing the extra work and troubleshooting yourself.... Bah.. it's not my money but yours. Yeah, it seems like I'm just wasting away money and maybe I am...but was no way in hell I could get to that 6th plug...did you read about my story with the 5th? I'm so not technically oriented it's depressing...it was a huge feat for me to even take off the intake hose. I don't want to screw up anything else and I'm already afraid I've killed my engine. I don't mean to be rude and not take your advice or anything. I'm just saying I will only do more damage that only a mechanic can undo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 gees guys seems abit strange that people were so quick to jump to the hydrolocked story..... ok i did read the wheels locked apon a push start, but a seized engine from tb cleaner, pfffft. as for the tb cleaner, ive dumped a whole cans in numerous cars before, yeh there hard to start after, but hold the 'go peddle' flat to the floor and crank. and they always start. sort of seems to me if you gone digging in to tb you may have disturbed some wiring. and the computer is not letting the coils supply spark. if this is the case this offers a very simple explaination for the wheels locking upon a push start, being a fairly new pathy the engine will have good compression, once the clutch is released & in gear the wheels lock due to compression of the engine where normally there would be spark to kick the engine over. tip for noobs: dont leave the igintion on, for a petrol engine, for extened times - no good for the coil packs. hope it all works out for the best in the end Yeah, I've done TB cleaner before in my 1998 4Runner before. It cranked a few times but turned over with a big cloud of smoke from the tail pipe. When my brother and I were in the engine bay there were old shop towels from other mechanics still sitting next to the intake! Also there was a cap from a container of oil! I swear some of these guys do such sloppy work! I would cream my pants if all I did was disturb some wiring...and there sure is a hell of a lot of wiring just connected to the intake. But my truck still has a distributor. I'll take another look at the intake wiring and see, but I was under the hood for a few hours today and nothing popped out at me. I'll download that PDF again and see what wires are which before calling for the tow truck. I'm going to also go by the local community college to see if there are any Auto Shop classes I can take this summer. I want to learn so badly but screwing up is really, really expensive. If it turns out I blew the engine or something crazy I'll probably end up in a new Mazda 3 or something. I'm hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 i found all the efi cars ive worked on, they dont like the tps or iac unplugged. if running the car would stall instantly & then not start at all unitll i plugged them back in. maybe a first spot to start looking. you may have knocked without knowing. especially being that the tps & iac is always on the tb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Well, it is odd that the truck won't compression start. You should at least have gotten a rotation or two out of the motor. But other than hydrolock, nothing you did should keep the motor from cranking over. Your battery is fully charged, the connections are good and power is getting to the starter ? It will not start with the starter either. Does that mean it cranks over, but will not start ? I'm getting confused here... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 i found all the efi cars ive worked on, they dont like the tps or iac unplugged. if running the car would stall instantly & then not start at all unitll i plugged them back in. maybe a first spot to start looking. you may have knocked without knowing. especially being that the tps & iac is always on the tb. Yeah, I didn't knowingly unplug anything, but that could be the case. When you turn the key the symptoms are similar to a dead battery, but the battery is fully charged. We didn't even go near the battery. Are the sensors I should look at all on the intake? I know there are a hell of a lot of wires there but I don't know which is which and what I should be looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well, it is odd that the truck won't compression start. You should at least have gotten a rotation or two out of the motor. But other than hydrolock, nothing you did should keep the motor from cranking over. Your battery is fully charged, the connections are good and power is getting to the starter ? Does that mean it cranks over, but will not start ? I'm getting confused here... B Yup, no rotation at all from the motor. I haven't tested if the battery is getting power to the starter, but there isn't a logical reason why. The battery is a strong Red Top and the connections to the battery are corrosion-free. When I turn the key, it's kinda like I have a dead battery. I can hear the fuel pump, but there is nothing from the engine. Just turning the key and silence. No cranking, no turning over, nothing. All of the warning lights, etc. light up just as when you normally turn the key. It could be a sensor, that would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 When you turn the key the symptoms are similar to a dead battery, Absolutely nothing ? A rapid clicking noise ? The motor turns over, but slowly ? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Absolutely nothing ? A rapid clicking noise ? The motor turns over, but slowly ? B Well, I think that it's the fuel pump relay that I'm hearing when I twist the key. There is absolutely no turning over. Not a peep from the engine. It sounds like the engine has seized. There is no rapid clicking like you would get from a dead battery either. We hooked it up to jumper cables and tried to start it to no avail. It would be a reasonable guess that the computer is not letting it start. A sensor is a good guess, but I just don't know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Sorry, we overlapped posts there... Ok, the motor will not crank but you have power to everything else. Make sure the starter/selenoid is getting power... I'll look for a thread about a 'hot wire' test. B This isn't the one, but it may help you... http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?showto...l=test++starter This is the one, try it... http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?showto...l=jump++starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thanks a bunch for searching on that one B. Yeah, my 1996 Jeep ZJ had a bad starter at 130k. Now that I think about it, my symptom's now with the Pathy are the same as the first time the Jeep wouldn't start. The Jeep's starter was really easy to get to, but then again the 4.0 was such an easy motor to work on. The Jeep starter was down low on the passenger side, toward the rear of the truck. You could tap it with a crowbar from above or from under the truck. Where is the R50 starter? I'll tap the solenoid in the morning. I just think it would be way too coincidental for the Pathy starter to crap out when I start working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR99.5Speed Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 One more variable into the equation: low fuel Last night, first time I opened the hood to spray the TB, the low fuel light was on. The needle is at the last hash mark. I was parked facing uphill, maybe 30 degrees. Does that matter any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now