unccpathfinder Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 as posted before i noticed after a min or so of idle i'd blow a puff of blue smoke on initial acceleration and that was all of the blue smoke...i had lost about 3/4 a quart in 500 miles which seemed like a lot yest i crawl under to do an oil change and notice oil had been blown everywhere along the front side of the motor (dripping off of alternator as well but none on the belts) so i go to look at my known to sometimes leak valve cover and it doesnt seem to have noticable leaking happening as of now (but sure that'll happen really soon with winter coming on) my question is tho could i have somehow half assed blown a head gasket to where its shooting oil out between the head and block and maybe at idle a lil into the cylinder? or any other idea's? i havent had time to pull the timing belt cover to see if its indeed leaking between the head and block :sniff: my baby's doing evil evil things and have a feeling everything is about to get a whole lot worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revco Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hmmmm...blue smoke is usually not a good sign. It's almost always caused by oil mixing with gasoline in the cylinder and being burned off with the fuel. You're on the right track with the head gasket. I would also consider cam seals just in case you're seeing two problems - such as minor piston blow-by and a separate leak. You will be able to see that by pulling off the rear TB cover...which it sounds like you may have to do anyway. Either way, your situation doesn't look great. Have you checked your plugs lately? (Oil) How's the vehicle running? (Smooth/Rough) Has the truck lost it's power at all? From my experience, once you see blue smoke...it's a rapid downward spiral into engine rebuild time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 yeah, doesn't sound too good. truck running like crap? you didn't mention that. you can do a compression tests on each cilinder and see if there is a problem. you may actually get a clue when you pull the plugs. busted head gasket - truck runs like crap.. possible mixing of fluids also.. otherwise it could be rings, or valve guides or some other internal stuff.. keep us posted and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 For the oil leak on the front of the engine, you may want to pull the timing cover off to take a peek. I've seen a pretty nasty leak from the Crank seal but it's not that common. As already mentioned, the puff of blue sounds like your rings are going. A headgasket leak would show more signs of white smoke out the tail pipe and you would see it on the oil dipstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLApathy Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Valve guide seal? but woundnt that smoke all the time, unless one of them is shrunk but expands once it gets hotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) this sounds really similar to what is going on with my pathy.. have you smelled the oil to see if there is fuel mixing with it as is happening to mine? is the smoke only at idle then burns the fuel off once you start driving? does your pathy stink of gas when you start it? My pathy runs excellent, but i am having similar problems without the oil leaks and excessive smoke after running... I changed my plugs and they looked good... when i check my "running" codes I'll let you know if anything comes up.. i would suggest you do the same to closer pin point the problem.. good luck.. keep us informed! BTW: I don't have the oil loss you seem to be suffering... What year is your Pathy? Edited November 22, 2005 by Slick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Possibly to the head gasket, probably to the cam seals, maybe to rings and/or valves. It puffs every time ? I'd start by pulling and examining the plugs and doing a compression test. 3/4 of a quart in 500 miles is definitely bad but you may be leaking far more then you are burning. How many miles on the motor ? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Have you checked your plugs lately? (Oil) How's the vehicle running? (Smooth/Rough) Has the truck lost it's power at all? From my experience, once you see blue smoke...it's a rapid downward spiral into engine rebuild time. checked a couple plugs and they look good but didnt have time to check all of them but fixing to do that here in a couple mins...the truck runs great shes smooth and no unusual effects...i have picked up the same problem i had about a year ago and when im accelerating hard it doesnt seem like it wants to go but thats only every now and then and last time i changed plug wires dist cap and rotor as well as the coil and that fixed it im thinking my plug wires are bad again... i've been wanting to run a compression test but havent had time to do it...i dont have a mixing of fluids which i thought would exclude the head gasket but i didnt know if it were possible to blow it out on the outter side and not have the cooling ducts hit the oil ducts the top half was rebuilt about 25k ago or 3 years... well i wasnt loosing oil until i noticed the other day the leak that had been coating everything...the oil smells like normal used oil to me but i guess there could be a hint of "fuel" smell to it but im pretty sure thats just reg oil...but the way it smokes is i can crank it up without any smoke (besides the cold weather condensation evaporation) and the truck doesnt smoke at all while running but if i let it idle for a min or so if i hit the gas its just 1 puff then as im driving no smoke...i know i do have a rich condition b/c of a warped exhaust manifold....its an 87 with 250k on it with the top half rebuild at 225k after i broke a timing belt and bent 3 valves... yea i was initially thinking rings but thought that i would see smoke all the time and voided out valve seals due to no smoke on startup after sitting (sometimes up to 4 or 5 days)...i've also heard of trucks sucking oil up into the intake at idle but changed the pcv and that didnt help...and i also noticed that it wont ever smoke even if it idles until the truck is at running temp... but for now going to investigate the oil leak and check the plugs will post (pics if needed) about my discovery's (we need a figners crossed smiley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 pulled the timing belt cover and some good news there...it was looking nice and clean no oil splattered all over it...so i still think the oil is coming from some counterpart of the driverside head on the front side (maybe cam seal)after taking off the driver side valve cover and dist cap thinking this would let me see a lil better i quickly realized that this wasnt the case and i just wasted about 20 mins to take it off and put it back on... pulled all of the plugs and besides from pulling some of them apart and having to recrimp the wire back to the connector (i really wish those plug wire grabbers would work a lil better)...they were all good looking...only thing was a lil white color which is a norm when i change the plugs no oil or anything like that...they looked good to be in there for 2 years... ...still didnt fully locate the oil leak tho...its blown oil all over the place but i think i nixed the crank seal b/c the oil is def coming from either around the oil pan or above but im sure its above b/c the alt has some on it and i can kinda see up to where that backplate is for the timing belt cover and think thats where its coming from which i would susped is the cam seal...im gonna try to upload some of the pix if they seem to be helpful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 where i think the leak is coming from i tried to orient the 1st 2 so that its how you would see it if you laid under the truck from the front with ure feet in front of the truck close up of area whatta mess (oriented looking from the fan back to the motor sorta) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Ok, I'm dizzy from looking at the picts... I'll have to slide under mine tomorrow to look and reference, but wouldn't that be the oil pan seal ? Just guessing, I need to eye ball it... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 lol, yeah B, oil pan but it also looks like it maybe leaking up above.. notice it in pic one.. looks wet above (where he circled) it's still kind of hard to tell but as much as it looks like it's dumping at the alt get'r done and it must be something big or even multiple hole.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 well either i dropped something in the head when i had the valve cover off inspecting (really dont think happened) or something fell down in one of the spark plug holes (i really dont think happened) or she just decided to break when i cranked it up tonight... all kinds of knocking and raquet from under the hood...looks like im not goin home for thanksgiving updates tomorrow after i check it out but i think the motors toast now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 oh man! i hope it's nothing major.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 im pretty sure its gonna be major...thats just my luck... now i gotta decide what to do...if its get a new motor rebuild if its possible on this 1 sell her as she sits or part it out... all with a dwindling bank account... also 1975 trailduster for sale get as much out of it as i can...needs floorboards and has a lot of cancer...located in wilmington NC...runs strong with a lil smoke from leaky valve seals.... but for now -alcohol- -alcohol- -alcohol- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 damn. where is that free motor when you need it, eh? the other one may still be for sale.. haven't looked at that thread in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 couldnt wait till tomorrow just got done going thru it all again...pulled the rockers and lifters and everything was looking perfect so at least i know for sure i didnt drop anything in when i had the valve covers off... pulled the plugs and they all looked the same so i figured if something fell in it woulda dinged those up...so im guessing my next step is pulling the heads to see what i've done...i dont wanna crank it up again and damage anything else to any more extent than it already is... i'll post up whenever i find anything else new.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 cranck it by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Yow, from oil leak to pulling the heads in 1 day flat... I hope you find whats up and it's nothing major, but thats seems unlikely as you describe it. The guys in Washington are finding motors for about $700 (without core charge) with 3-12 month warrantys. I don't know you situation, but finding something like that may not be a bad way to go. Then you can sell the core and recoup the price of gaskets+ ? Anyway, just pointing out possible options. Good luck and keep us informed. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hastifc Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 tell me about it, uncc, i just blew vegas money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 well im just kinda glad it happened in the driveway on a cold crank before i started making my treck home today for 120 miles...i found a ride home so i can go be with momma for thanksgiving which is good but as for the motor when i get home on sat im gonna pull the valve covers loosen up the rocker arms and turn her over by hand as suggested before and take a steathascope and see if i cant hear whats clanging... i'll post when i get back and find something out...gonna go have a beer and dinner with my cuz and see what she wants for her 95 since she just bought a mazda 3 for gas sorry to hear about blowin that vegas money...im kinda streached for $ till the beggining of next sem...so im thinking shes gonna sit till then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Good luck on everything. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) cranking by hand is more about feeling then hearing. go slow.. use a wrench on the ballancer and go v slow in the clockwise direction only. Edited November 23, 2005 by mzxtreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 yea i was gonna do feel 1st and then try to pinpoint where its coming from figure out whats in that area and then take the needed action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted November 26, 2005 Author Share Posted November 26, 2005 turning by hand everything felt very smooth and no rough spots... im starting to wonder now if i damaged some of the plug wires and the knock im getting is just pre-ignition from compression or a weak spark...i've never really heard that type of "knock" but it does sorta sound like a diesel but louder but it sounds really bad so im guessing im gonna maybe try to get some plug wires and change those out and cross my fingers (b/c really that is the only logical reason y she died) and im wondering if the initial bang at first before the knocks started was a backfire from raw fuel being ignited in the exhaust manifold or something to that effect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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