robbie Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) (This maybe an old topic but I can't seem to find it on the forum so I'll go ahead and post this.) So I'm looking to drive my pathy for probably another 10+ years. I haven't had the manifold stud problem yet but I'm anticipating it now that I have 140k miles on my 94. Having read up on the header option, I went ahead and ordered the Thorley ceramics. After calling up my mechanic to see about installation, he asks me why I'm wasting my money on those. He tells me there are a whole slew of problems that come with installing headers, like leaking, overheating the engine compartment, compromising everything else near the headers due to heat, etc. Since I'm looking for a long term option to keep my pathy running smoothly I feel like I made a mistake getting them. A/C won't take them back unless I eat 20% of the cost plus shipping and pay out of my pocket to ship them back. (kinda upset about their return policy, most other places would tell me to just refuse shipment and get 100% refund including the shipping.. I honestly don't think it'd be any problem for them to do the same.) Anyway, I feel like I should just take the truck into dealership and get the manifolds replaced so I can have it run another 150k miles or so without giving me any headaches in the future. I also hear headers are great for (straight pipe) no-cat exhaust setup but creates too much back pressure with cats that causes other problems down the line. Any comments on which would be a better choice for longevity? Is my mechanic totally out of whack with his idea on headers? Edited October 11, 2005 by robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hmmm interesting. My theory is if I'm gonna replace it, might as well upgrade it. Knowing that the manifolds are way to restrictive, I opted for tholey's ceramic headers as well. No being ceramic and not just the nickle coated ones, they will last a bit longer due to the fact they remove the heat slightly better. Now as far as send your's back, thats' just your call. Some one wiser than me once said, "To get the most out of these engine's you have to get them breathing and farting right." Well mine's been fartin just fine for a year now, no "heat" issues under the hood, and if I drive nice, I actually get a mpg increase. Seem to me, if you already have em, stick with em, but that's just my 2 pyreals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derogate Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 just a few points - Thats AC, their customer support is crap.. there's lots of posts. - theres a few members here that have been running thorleys, and I havn't seen any complaints.. only on the pacesetters - The install is involving, but I don't think they are any more problematic than the bulky manifolds breaking bolts over and over (save for the upgraded bolts you *Should* get) I've heard from alot of people as well though, that headers are a pain in the arse. And after install, you have to get em warm, then tighten them again.. stuff like that. If they are ceramic coated I think the rest of your components should be ok. If you're really worried about it, I'm sure you could fab up some kind heat sheild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 After calling up my mechanic to see about installation, he asks me why I'm wasting my money on those. He tells me there are a whole slew of problems that come with installing headers, like leaking, overheating the engine compartment, compromising everything else near the headers due to heat, etc. Terll him you're willing to take that chance and get 'em put on. Nobody else has leaking problems, overheating underhood parts or anything like that. The biggest problem to date has been accessing the stock oil filter location because the headers get in the way. With a remote mount oil filter kit for about $60, you can put the oil filter elsewhere and not have to worry about it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmgar99 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Aparently your mechanic doesn't know headers very well...Thorley's make a good header with a real nice thick mounting plate...so warping and leaking is minimal at most. Make sure you get a second opinion at a muffler/exhaust place.... Sometimes you have to re-tighten the mounting bolts after you've driven a few hundred miles or so.... I say keep em and install them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I may be going out on a limb here, but I question your mechanic more than the headers... In my 25 years of wrenching experience, the only times I've heard of people having problems with headers is when they used crappy headers, crappy gaskets, or did a crappy job (over torqueing is common problem). Properly installed quality headers have never given me any problems. If he's had so many problems, he must have been guilty of at least one of the above and the real problem is him... I would say learning to do it yourself would be a far better option! Using the ceramic coated Thorleys is the best option available to us. The ceramic coating reduces the under hood temps quite a bit. Just like manifolds, make sure no wires are within a couple inches of the tubes to avoid burning. And do the oil filter relocation at the same time. Your comment on usage of cats with headers is also grossly bad information. They work perfectly fine with cats. Very few of todays automobiles use manifolds as poorly designed as what was common back in the 80's. Almost all have gone to tubular headers or much more elaborately cast manifolds. This results in greatly improved efficiency (mpg and hp) If you hear all this and still don't want to make the swap, I'll buy the Thorley's from you. I'll pay the price you paid if you pay shipping. I have needed to make the swap anyways, and I'd be happy to help another customer not get reamed by AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Where are you located? Maybe you're close enough to one of us that we can get together and help you do it right... I'm in NoCal, 88 is in central Ore, Slick is in central CA.... etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmgar99 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I'm no professional mechanic but i'll help...i'm in SoCal (Temecula) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transworldmoto Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I'm in central cali, kinda near slick if u need some addititonal assistance also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelmanLS1 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I have the Thorleys and am thrilled to death with the outcome. I am so glad I got them, even if it cost me $800 for the parts and installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Thanks for all the input and offer to help with the install. You guys are probably right in the mechanic having the problem. I just got a minor tune up from him a few days ago and yesterday the truck went below idle at stops and eventually died out on me. This NEVER happened before... the needle may have gone above idle at stops but never below normal. I'm kinda pissed cuz I always had faith in the engine... I hope he didn't screw it up. (he changed the fuel filter, cleaned out the k&n, oil change, new plugs)... I wonder what he could've done to jack it up.) After trying to get going a few times with it dying several more times, the truck started driving fine again. I checked the ECU last night and did all the diagnosis and everything checked out fine. As I'm going to work this morning ... it started up again. I barely got it to the shop and now I'm waiting a call from them. They work on old toyota FJ's located in the L.A. area. They claim they know nissans but apparently not. If anyone's had a similar problem it'd be great to hear from you. I'm not looking forward to the 1 & 1/2 hour bus and subway ride home tonight. As for the headers both your advice and my mechanic's expertise (or lack thereof) convinced me to keep it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Sputtering on idle could be the MAF sensor. Or the connection to it. It's a common problem on Pathys. Get the mechanic to start it up, and try to keep it running while he plays with the connection to the MAF. My guess is that it will start to idle right as soon as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 If he messed with the K&N (i'm guessing air filter) maybe he over oiled it or something and some oil got on the MAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Thanks. I got my truck back today and it's running fine. I don't think it was anything major. As far as installing the headers, I need to get some fabrication done so that it'll work with the Auto transmission. As I'm totally new to this and have no welding experience I should probably take it to a professional. (I appreciate all of your offer in helping out - was quite surprised by the generosity.) Since I don't know anything about the process and I want to get it right the first time around, I've got a few more detailed questions: 1) I noticed that a few of you have the Perma remote mount oil filter kit - does the dual filter kit work well for the 94 pathy? 2) I've heard all copper gaskets are something I want to pick up for the header installation... know a good brand or where I can order or pick one up? 3) Would the Nissan P/N 14037-v5000 gasket work for the job? 4) Do I need to buy the newer Nissan studs (P/N 14065-v5003) for the job? 5) Lastly... anyone know any good muffler shop you can recommend in the Southern California area who can do the job right? (I'm in San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles County) I'm starting get excited again about the upgrade. Thanks for listening. Edited October 12, 2005 by robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 1) Summit racing, PN PRM-10695 Order here 2)Fel-Pro make good gaskets, call summit and ask 3) Probly, but copper would be better, but then again, I used the ones that came with the headers and haven't had any problems 4) YES!!! 5) Sorry I'm in the bay area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC88Pathy Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Does anyone happen to know what brand oil filter relocation kit AC sells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Anyone got any Pics of where they moved their Oil filter too? Is there only one possible option for this or several? And if several any Suggestions since the the Thorley's are going on? Dowser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'll see if I can find a pic how I intially set it up. It worked fine, however, it made a bigger mess than before whenever I changed my filter due to all the oil in the lines draining out. I just reconfigured it on a bracket so it's straight up and down, then put 90 degree nipples on the filter adapter to keep the lines from draining out. No pics of that yet, I'll drag a camera along tomarrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Here it is, original config. I'll let you know how the new set up works in 3k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) One more thing, what would be a fair cost for getting a complete headers install on a pathy, including the fabrication for auto-tranny? Trying to find the right muffler shop for the job. Will give details upon completion... incase anyone wants to hear. Edited October 12, 2005 by robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Got me on that one, I did it all myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revco Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 One more thing, what would be a fair cost for getting a complete headers install on a pathy, including the fabrication for auto-tranny? Trying to find the right muffler shop for the job. Will give details upon completion... incase anyone wants to hear. I got a quote for around $360 install w/ broken bolts and no fabrication...which works out to be about 5 hours of labor. Seems about right to me considering some guys spend an entire weekend (or more) and end up pulling the motor to get 'em installed. In fact, these manifold bolts are so notorious that I've had several shops tell me they weren't interested in the install at all. You could probably shop it and find someone who will do it cheaper. Cheaper isn't always better, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 I decided to hold off for awhile due to the high cost/time involved in the install. Something came up and I'm in need of cash too. So I'm selling the headers at $470 and at $10 flat rate shipping by FedEx Ground. Will accept paypal, check or money order. It'll be great if someone will buy it from me. They are still brand new. (Ceramic Coated THY-464-2-C) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Dohhh.... I was going to take these off Robbie's hands, but then I noticed these are a different PN than what is specified for my '87 model... Anybody know the difference between: 464-1 (86 to 89 models), and 464-2 (90-95 models) I suspect they are the same bends, but different fittings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaritimeMan Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Hmmm depends. Where's your dip stick? On mine, there was a slot in the flange on the drivers side so they would fit past the dipstick tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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