If a smaller SFD was available...?

[XPLORx4]

I think I understand what you've described. I was wondering about the strength of C-shaped MM's, whether the vertical faces of the mounts are parallel or not. The weight of the engine and its torque is being supported by only a single wall of .125" x 3" steel on each side. That might not be strong enough. Maybe .188" should be used anyway.

 

In this pic, do you have the new MM's installed or the old ones? When the new MM's are installed, is the side with the long edge towards the front of the engine or the back?

 

[hawairish]

I think I understand what you've described. I was wondering about the strength of C-shaped MM's, whether the vertical faces of the mounts are parallel or not. The weight of the engine and its torque is being supported by only a single wall of .125" x 3" steel on each side. That might not be strong enough. Maybe .188" should be used anyway.

 

In this pic, do you have the new MM's installed or the old ones? When the new MM's are installed, is the side with the long edge towards the front of the engine or the back?

 

I think the thinner C-shaped spacers would be fine for supporting, just not if the faces are facing each other, which is how I had them. I'd think they'd could waffle over like \ \ or / /. If they were turned 90-deg, though, the only way they'd collapse is if the engine moved significantly to the front or rear of the vehicle, and this is where the tranny mount would actually help. The best approach would be for the faces (and by faces, the cups of the C shape) to both face towards the center of the vehicle some where. The resists shifting/collapsing in all directions. But again, it's that shorter passenger subframe pad that screws things up. But yes, I think .188" or thicker would be best if the spacer is to be cut like any C-shape.

 

In the pic, the old ones; and not sure I follow about long edge. The angle is like this (from top/bottom perspective):

 

New:

 

--Front---

/-motor-\

 

Old:

 

--Front--

|-motor-|

[hawairish]

Ok, some pics, finally.

 

 

The red line is where the passenger mount is cut.

The passenger spacer is 2" deep (yellow line)

The drivers spacer is 3" deep (orange line).

The green lines are the angled parts that will oppose each other. The driver's green line is 2.5" long (the piece started as a 2.5" cubic piece); the passenger green line is a little over 1.25".

The blue lines are parallel when installed.

The blue line to spacer edge facing motor is .5"

The foot print of the passenger spacer fits within a 3"x2" rectangle

 

Passenger mount:

 

 

(By the way, these cuts turned out razor sharp. That little scruff you see inside the spacer is the interior weld when the tube was formed. HF miter saw, HF router speed controller, and a metal-cutting blade.)

 

This is the design I went away from (ignore all the lines for now):

 

 

.120" simple tube was where I started. Not enough clearance as-is unless I rotated it a little; that was the original plan anyway. So, I just cut it in half; these are what were replaced. I'm sure this approach would be fine with .188" or .250".

 

Going forward, I'll probably just cut .188" tube at 22.5° so that it it makes a parallelogram that fits within a 3"x2" footprint, as sketched on the last pic.

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[hawairish]

And now, for the real stuff.

 

I finished up the skid plate spacer tonight:

 

 

 

I

 

 

 

It bolts to the radiator support crossmember using 4 unused M12 holes. I tapped the spacer for the M10 bolts, but I'll probably go with blind nuts instead. The enlarged holes on the bottom allow for a 17mm socket (dia. <1"), and are then covered by skid plate, but I need to cut a groove through each hole or something to allow water to drain. I probably won't seal up the ends, but I do need to pull it down to give it some paint. Might even put a few more holes through the face to save some weight.

 

And here are just a bunch of other pictures of the finished work! (Finally!)

 

Passenger front spacer:

 

 

Passenger rear spacer; if you go with a 5.75" long spacer, you don't need the beveled cut to avoid the brake line shield or subframe gusset.

 

 

Everything cleaned up. New brake lines are 3" longer overall, but only 1.25" longer where it matters (between strut tab and fender mount), which is still plenty. The brake lines weren't necessary, but noticed my original lines from strut tab to caliper seemed stressed. Installed new shock boots instead of the normal strut boot...almost $20 cheaper and just need little trimming.

 

 

1.5" strut spacer stacked on a NX4 1" spacers that the previous owner had milled down to .5" for whatever reason; so 2" of spacers.

 

 

Under-chassis clearance. The LCAs are basically flat, so that ball joint is angled exactly how it should be. Clearance was reduced to about 9.25" at the skid plates, as expected. But, no binding, and full range of movement. That's what an SFD is for.

 

 

 

You'd think I'd post an 'after' picture here, but not gonna (yet). After driving it around, it's leveled to about exactly 2" of lift, which is expected. No more rubbing on the wheel well liners. The camber isn't bad, almost not even noticeable, but a set of camber bolts will probably help anyway. I could probably go up to 2.5"-3" of strut spacers and be in good shape.

 

If you want any other specific pics, let me know.

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[hawairish]

I'm nearly done....all that's left is replacing the bushings with poly on the rear-driver's trailing arms and re-installing them. Rear spacers (2"), rear brake line (+5"), extended bump stops, and F-250 shocks are installed. Also need to change out the fuel filter while I'm under there. And looks like I'll need the panhard drop bracket, but I may have a non-KRFabs solution.

 

Judging by how the truck is sitting right now (the rear axle is still on jacks, but with the tires on, they're just barely off the ground), there will be some rake, so I may increase my front spacer height from 2" to 2.5" or 3". I don't think I'll run into any alignment issues.

 

For those interested in a "kit", here's how I've decided to approach this: I will not be producing a kit, per se. Instead, I will be detailing all parts, materials, designs, hardware specs, where to get everything, install instructions, and my other little hacks (longer brake lines, rear bump stops, etc.) on a separate website that I've been working on for the past couple weeks. You will have everything you need to know about making and installing your own bolt-on SFD for less than KRFabs 4" kit...and this includes lifting the rear, extended brake lines (front and rear), and keeping your skid plate (and more)!

 

I will sell a full kit if someone wants (probably beneficial for those living outside of US/NA to consolidate shipping), but ideally I would just sell the subframe spacers for anyone without access to a drill press, metal saw, or welding (if you want welded spacers). I'll sell you anything you want, but my intention is to make this a budget friendly, community-driven kit.

 

So, why this approach? Well, mainly because my interest in contributing to the Nissan community exceeds my interest in turning a profit. We're an overlooked bunch of owners, and it sucks. When a product does happen to exist, it tends to have a premium price tag, which decreases demand and gives vendors, including self-proclaimed Nissan "enthusiasts", an excuse to not support us. Well, consider this your first product not driven by profit.

 

I'll have more details about the website in the coming days/weeks, but shoot me a PM if you want any details. I'll also post up some pictures of the finished truck soon.

 

[hawairish]

Pics of the rear install...

 

Extended the bump stops using 2" body lift spacers. (Yes, that pumpkin needs cleaning.)

 

 

Used Monroe Reflex shocks for a 2002-ish Ford F250 RWD. Good for another 3" of length. Seems a few people have just mounted them upside down...don't. On my application, I pressed out the lower bushing and sleeve, replaced with poly bushings (shown installed) and re-used the sleeve in the upper bushing. Perfect fit for the 12mm upper bolt and 16mm lower bolt.

 

 

The bushings are narrower than stock (36mm vs 42mm) so a 5/16"ID thick SAE washer (3/16" thick, shown installed) makes for a perfect fit at each end. Just have to remember that because there's no longer a metal sleeve in the lower bushing, you don't torque it to spec. Just needs to be snug.

 

 

2" coil spacer from this guy but I got mine from him off eBay (2" rear, 1.5" strut spacers). Can't really see it too well here, but another thick washer use not the upper shock mount. Everything installed on driver's side.

 

 

Sans shock on passenger side:

 

 

And apparently, I didn't get a picture as proof that my extended brake line (5" longer) fit perfectly.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[hawairish]

And finally...

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Sorry some of the pics are kinda dark. My house is 10-stories tall.

 

The driveway has a slight pitch to it, but there is a little rake on it now. I will be swapping out my .5" front spacers with at least 1" spacers; that'll bring the front spacer pack to 2.5" to match the subframe spacers.

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[hawairish]

Oh, and she rides great. Ride in the rear is much firmer than before...I think part of this is the shocks (I'd prefer to have kept my OMEs), but much of it is the poly bushings all around. She's definitely more truck-like now; does feel a bit of the bumps, but handles corners and accelerating/stopping well. It's definitely exposed some new plastic rattles! Some of the OEM bushing sleeves pressed out too easily; they bushings were trash. I think I may eventually do the panhard rod bushings, too, since I'll need to drop that anyway. The interesting thing is that my steering vibration around 50-60mph on my Duratracs is gone, too; must've been the front bushings. I still need to get an alignment (very minimal camber), but will wait until I up the strut spacer stack.

[bushnut]

lookin' good. just what i wanted.

I will absolutely have to revisit this in the spring.

[hawairish]

lookin' good. just what i wanted.

I will absolutely have to revisit this in the spring.

 

I might try to talk you out of the 1.5" SFD, btw. The subframe spacers are fine, it's the motor mount spacers to think about—not because of the discussion above, but because the two studs on the motor mount that attach to the subframe are too tall to allow for additional bolts underneath them. You'd have to consider cutting down all 4 of the studs a little, or consider drilling a hole in the subframe between the two existing holes and using a single bolt.

 

However, I think welding a nut to a round tube to a bolt would make a perfect twist-on spacer. If we talk in the spring, I may have a nice solution by then.

[CDN_S4]

Excellent work and write up Hawairish. Once my 31's need replacing and I still wish to pursue the 33's I will more than likely get this "kit" from you, especially since it allows to keep the skid plate!

[patqx4]

any updates to this? It's very interesting.

[hawairish]

Not as much as I'd like, but some things progressing. I'm planning to up things to a 3" SFD and release that information instead of a 2.5". Nothing wrong with the 2.5" approach, but 3" steel is just easier to acquire and work with. I'll be testing things hopefully in the coming month or two, but my work/travel schedule is limiting my time.

[hawairish]

The 3" SFD is finally moving forward...

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[NovaPath]

Great work!

[hawairish]

Can't take credit for the work, but thought up the design the other night. Resolves issues with tool space and still features a rigid core like my current spacers.

 

Got additional strut spacers the other day, and just need to order some hardware and new steering shaft piece. I plan to install everything at the end of the month, along with some drivetrain improvements. Will be busy, again.

 

 

[hawairish]

Welp, here's one of 2 sets ready for powder coating:

 

 

The large piece is for retaining the skid plate, like what I have for my current SFD.

 

Bought myself a blind nut install tool, and it works great. Decided to do it on the motor mount spacers, which should make installation that much easier.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by hawairish

[TowndawgR50]

looks great!

[TowndawgR50]

What's the strength of those fasteners? Those are the rivet type, right?

[hawairish]

Thanks! Yep, rivet type. They're sold under a few names...which none of my local hardware stores know apparently.

 

I've tried finding some details on the strength, too, but haven't gotten more detail than "carbon steel". Doesn't tell me a whole lot, but these are also being used for low strength applications where I don't suspect I'll have any problems. I wouldn't put them on the subframe spacer, but boy would that solve some of the clearance issues we were talking about for a 2". However, the tool I have is good for 12mm blind nuts.

[TowndawgR50]

Yea, they're really good for tight spaces. Not so much for hi torque requirements though.

We use them for certain applications at work and the three categories of strength to consider are spin out, pull out and push out strength.

That's why I was thinking a welded nut would do the same thing but be much stronger

[hawairish]

Yep, completely agree, especially on the welded nut. One thought I had was to sink the nut into a larger hole and fill in the hex void to produce a tap-like result.

 

These 10mm ones I got had a much smaller flange than I expected so I had some concerns over push-out. I went by Fastenal's worthless description after not seeing a stand-out difference in their spec sheets...the part labeled "large flange" has a smaller flange and is more low-profile than the identical part labeled "low profile". Who knew? I'm done with Fastenal anyway...switching to McM-C next (I wish boltdepot.com carried them).

 

The true low-profile ones will work fine for the motor mounts, which are only torqued up to 41 ft-lbs. I've got the larger flange in transit to use for my tire carrier retrofit.

 

I had concerns about spin out, but the tool I got collapses them solidly(?) and uniformly. Cheap as it was, worth every penny (have done about 20 so far between M6-M10). I tried the cheap-o way of collapsing them (nut, bolt, wrench) on my current skid plate spacer; what a pain. One set okay after a second go, but the other shifted when it collapsed. The stepper bit I have seems to be perfectly designed for these, too...really good fit on the holes (needing to tap them in a little).

 

Any experience/advice for using backing washers on them? The hot topic for the tire carrier retrofit is reinforcement. I picked up some SAE washers for my initial skid plate spacer to use between the blind nut and steel to shim it (to allow for water drainage). Didn't go that route, though. But if I were to used them as backing washers (say, to improve pull-out resistance), I'd think it'd promote spin out. Thinking I could bond them to the metal, collapse the nut, then allow it to cure. Thoughts?