gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) {Apologies for starting another shock thread, I considered bringing up the old one but the title on this one is much more apt.} So some of you may remember I'd been working / experimenting with my shocks a little while back. I did the rear ones and those were done and finished, there's no way to screw those up. And then I did the front shocks, twice...and both times I found new and different ways to screw THOSE separate installations up and that is my focus for this new thread. This was the first time I've ever had hands on experience with replacing my own shocks so I've had to learn / iron out all the basics and learn the language taught by experience. Pretty much everything I'm about to cover is old news to most 99 % of you guys, but I'm hoping for a select few others I might be able to provide some insight...so please bear with me on the obvious "Duh!" type stuff. Soo my rear shocks are KYB Excell G and they're not bad, a little stiff and bouncy at times..sometimes I do want to upgrade, but on the whole they're okay. I put them on and that was that. // Next came the front shocks which were also KYB Excel G and wow did these things blow...Did they? Knowing what I know now, today..I'm not sure. You see, I had installed them incorrectly, but I didn't know it. When you pull the shock out of the box you have a little baggy of extra parts that comes with it...okay...? So anyway, you bolt in the bottom and then I guess this little rubber thing (bushing) goes on over the stem on the top and you stick it through the hole in the frame....That's what I did. 1st mistake. I actually drove on these like this, with the nut tightened down on top of course. Crap these things are terrible! No, I installed them wrong *but I didn't know that yet* So I replaced them with the next level up, the KYB Gas Adjust...okay yeah whatever open the box, shock and a little baggy of parts..got it. This time you bolt in the bottom and having gotten smarter, 1st use one the provided washers facing up (like a dish) over the stem and THEN you put the rubber bushing and stick it through the hole and tighten down the nut using a shim because the threads terminate with too much slack in the top...WRONG! 2nd mistake I drove on these like this for probably a month...and I hated it. Luckily my Path is not my DD. I'm like, you know thinking to myself "..man those Gas adjust are terrible, my front end floats 3 or 4 times after I go over a bump and feel really spongy and I'm just going to replace them with a better set of Monroe Sensa tracs, that will fix it." So, yesterday I finally ordered the new shocks through my local parts hub and went to pay for them today and got into this conversation with the Godsend behind the counter. I casually mentioned to the manager I only used one bushing on the bottom and none on top when I installed the shocks, but I did inform him that I had shimmed up the extra space with a couple of washers and tightened the nut down...how could that affect the operation of the shock, I tell him. This guy...talks me out of buying a new set of Reflex OE Spectrum at full price and instead throws me a 5 dollar set of assorted bushings off the rack and says to try those first. So I have my mechanic throw them on real quick, he didn't even remove the wheels! We take a test drive (he's driving) and finally my truck feels right! It's finally fixed! Those stupid rubber bushings on top of the shock mount are REALLY important and need to be there! What's even more is he showed my that my front anti sway bar bushings were completely gone, as in literally not there...not just broken pieces of rubber..but actually not present. He showed me real quick how to install them and I went and got a set and did the job in my driveway! I installed a new set of anti sway bar bushings and it was easy and now my truck corners flat going around turns and feels nice to drive! It's crazy and I'm so happy I can finally put this shock madness behind me for a while. My whole point is, Who knew how important and what a difference those bushings on top make! Why? I don't know..there's the frame and then a rubber bushing on top with a stem poking through it, a washer and a nut. In case I didn't make that clear enough yet, for you inexperienced like me, it goes like this from bottom to top: Washer / bushing / washer / frame / washer / bushing / washer / nut ---- It has to be this way, when you're done you should have no extra bushings, I did have a couple extra washers because mine were already welded to the bottom and top of the frame. If you don't do it this way, TRUST me your shocks will be terrible. Now I really don't know how bad (or good) that first set of Excel G's really were because I screwed up the installation, they might have been just fine. I'm sorry to the rest of you for stating the obvious and I'm glad to be able to give you something to laugh at, I know I'm a dork..it's cool, laugh all you want, you guys have already paid your admission fees for membership to the Duh! Club. Here's mine. Edited March 23, 2014 by gv280z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Would have saved yourself a bunch of time and money if you had paid attention to the uninstall. The best lessons are the ones learned the hard way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 don't feel too bad. I did something similar when I replaced the top hats on my struts...I forgot a stupid little spacer that was a part of the old top hat but secondary on the new ones. in a rush to get it all back together again I didn't notice and ruined one of my struts....It stripped the threads and bent the top hat after driving a couple of hundred Kms. I won't make that mistake again! I guess thats the pain of learning to do things ourselves. remember to double check and then question yourself if you remembered to torque everything right. that's the system I follow now. Oh! and when all else fails.....read the de-structions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 No one is born with knowledge of how everything is supposed to work, be, fit or assemble. Some figure it out faster, but it is still a learning process. I have messed up a lot of simple things over the years, and that is just part of the game. The trick is to learn from the mistakes, and follow simple rules... Look how it is put together before you take it apart, take pictures (digital cameras are awesome) first, only take one side apart at a time (so you have a reference), read the destructions every time, don't let yourself be distracted, stop if you get mad/frustrated, buy beer before hand, etc... Thanks for sharing Bud, it will help someone. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) your bushing order you posted is wrong, it goes on the upper stem - washer - bushing (shock mount) bushing - washer - nut You have 2 extra washers you do not need Like this: Edited March 23, 2014 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 That's what I meant, you know going from the bottom washer at the top of the shock, going up the stem, and yes the frame (I guess all of ours have the washers welded in to the frame?) had it's own washers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 better get 'em before they are gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Not sure of washers welded to the frame, been along time since I replaced a shock, but washers welded to the frame or just a hole in the frame, still goes in the order I said as the pic shows. At least you figured it out and it rides good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 It's like night and day, now when I hit a sharp jolt or bump in the road, I don't get this loose rattley feel and sound from the front end and no longer is it going up and down 3 or 4 inches several times after a dip or elevation change. And I've been inspired to begin a campaign of research to learn how to gradually replace all the bushings and whatever in my front end, which is a terrifying thought...but I'll never learn if I don't ever try to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Did you replace the sway bar bushings the mechanic showed you? they are easy to do. IF you try to replace something and get stuck there is always someone on here you can get help from. Edited March 23, 2014 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Not sure of washers welded to the frame, been along time since I replaced a shock, but washers welded to the frame or just a hole in the frame, still goes in the order I said as the pic shows. At least you figured it out and it rides good There are cups that hold the bushings welded to the shock mount so the need of washers are not necessary on one side of each bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 even if there were no washers welded to the mount, you wouldn't need a washer on each side of the mount, the bushing should be in contact with the mount on each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBumBrian Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think this story warrants mounting on the wall of shame, if the OP is good with that..... I am glad you got it sorted out. Like Silverton said, if you are unfamiliar with the process always keep note on how things came apart. Just to keep track of parts I normally have a box of baggies and a sharpie on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 and refer to the FSM, it does have pretty good diagrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 There are cups that hold the bushings welded to the shock mount so the need of washers are not necessary on one side of each bushing. That's exactly what I was referring too, I just called it a washer instead of a cup, but yes those are there. I just got back from a little offroading along a fire road next to a drainage ditch, hard packed dirt and grass and was taking it real slow the whole way, then I decided to see what kind of damping action I could get at 20 or 30 mph and it did great, I was able to drive fairly quickly over hard bumpy terrain without upsetting the truck and I wasn't taking a beating either. Then I got back out to the road, took off at a light and totally dusted the other cars beside me, ripped through the intersection and on through all the dips and jolts and cracks in the road and not one hiccup, it was fun, plus I had my stereo cranked up listening to my 4 gigs of music playing from my flash drive...I had fun just cruising around driving for the hell of it. I love it. I'm falling inlove with my Path all over again Oh! Almost forgot, yes Ahardbody I did replace those two inside bushings on the sway bar, the outer ones still need to be done, I just watched Mr. Jim's video on how to do that little job, it looks easy. I know I can do those but all the other steering linkage completely freaks me out. It's going to take some research and study time to learn in my head how to attack all the ball joints and tie rods and bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think this story warrants mounting on the wall of shame, if the OP is good with that..... I am glad you got it sorted out. Like Silverton said, if you are unfamiliar with the process always keep note on how things came apart. Just to keep track of parts I normally have a box of baggies and a sharpie on hand. It was a combination of ignorance and the fact that I had no clue how vital all those little parts were, I know I should have known better and paid attention to the dis-assembly..I am really amazed at my lack of reasoning regarding this...Wall of Shame? What's that? Who's the OP, is that me or one of the Admin? Hell pin it, I don't care, I was an idiot, I hope I can help someone else to not be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Good job ! Was a coincidence when I needed to replace the sway bar end link bushings on my sentra, instead of buying a kit for the car with just the bushings, I found a few different part numbers online that my local auto parts was showing in stock, I asked the guy if he could pull the 3 different part numbers so I could see them and he did, two of them wouldn't work but one looked close to the sentra bushings, the part came with a new bolt and the metal sleeves but I only needed the bushings, and the part was cheap compared to buying the bushings alone for the car. I had to cut a small lip off one side of the bushings as they were slightly thicker than the sentra ones, and when I put it together (before cutting the lip off) I did not have enough thread left on the bolt to get the nut on, after I cut the lip off they worked perfect. The bolt came with 4 bushings enough to do both sides on the car. ( the car uses a different style end link than the PF (or truck), the car end link bolts onto the sway bar and only has bushings where it goes thru the control arm) But what was nice was the part I bought was like $9 and urethane compared to the bushing kit for the car which was $6 each side and were rubber Turns out the part I bought, not knowing was for a WD21 pathfinder !! Edited March 23, 2014 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBumBrian Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The Wall of Shame is a new idea that someone came up with to help others. Post your "less than optimal" moments, share your embarrassment, and let others learn from your mistakes. We all can laugh at ourselves now and then, can't we? I am not sure if the thread has been built for the Wall of Shame yet, I just remember reading about the idea, which I think personally is a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 TMr Bum, the Wall of Shame is more mechanically based and pictures are definitely desired, but here is a fun read we did years ago along similar lines... http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/3050-self-depreciation-alley/?hl=alley Wall of Shame? What's that? http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/37671-wall-of-shame/ B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) DOH!!! 1st screw up, now for my 2nd screw up just imagine one "cup" washer under neath the bushing here in this picture, and the top exactly the way it is now. (yes I know the bolt, I have since fixed that separate-all-by-itself-screw-up, which is another topic entirely but yes I did go back with the right sized bolt and torque'd to 80 lbs) As A matter of fact that bolt at the bottom is 12 MM and (again) that's exactly what needs to be there, if you try and use a 7/16s like I did, there'll be atleast 3 or 4 mm of play in the bushing, it's not an exact fit, only 12 mm bolt will work. I never drove on the 7/16s bolt, the moment I sized it up inside the bushing I immediately caught the problem and did not use it. Both front shocks are using the original bolt that came on the truck, the one that had gummed up teeth I just used on the other shock, swapped them, and this one here on this side I used a galvanized iron bushing as a shim and then torqued it to 80 lbs. Edited March 23, 2014 by gv280z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 The more I look at it, I'm afraid that pic above is going down in NPORA history...one for the ages. That's embarrassing. [head in hands, sighs] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Just remember when ever you are working on something and you are not sure, and have no one to ask, take one side apart, than if you get stuck you have the other side to reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialWarr Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Just give me until the weekend and take a look at the Wall of Shame.... you'll see what mine looks like. sent from under Ernest the Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APACHECHIEF13 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Like ahardbOdy said do one side at a time and do not rush your self to save time. I know working on this things are not easy sometimes and I'm happy to see people trying to do there own work. Props to all people that try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gv280z Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm sorry to bring this up again but I had a major breakthrough yesterday with my truck and this entire front shock issue playing the accordion game bouncing up and down after going over a bump, even though the shocks are new, not blown. And then I thought the bushings being correctly installed had resolved the issue, it actually did not. BUT NOW!!!! This time I've got it, I SWEAR! I finally cranked on my torsion bars, I had no idea how sagging and unloaded they were, there was no tension on them so whenever I went over a bump or sharp rise, the front end would go up and down excessively. Well, now after having cranked my bars, the ride is fixed and the shocks can actually do their job because they're in the right position and there's a lot more tension on the front. After I finished, I was able to do a little offroading and I love the way it felt, tough and firm, confident. This upcoming weekend I'm finally going to put the rear coil spacers in and bring up the rear a little bit, bout a 1.5" lift. Now I know, it wouldn't have mattered what shock I put in there, it still would have done the same thing because the front spring tension was screwed to begin with, so I am sure if I tried again the KYB GR2 shocks in the front, as I did before, probably would have been great instead of uncontrollable. It seems I really didn't lift the front much, but the bolts are just about out of adjustment, I guess that's where re-indexing comes in to it. Regardless, having a new love affair with my truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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