fixinto Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well, i did the timing belt job on my pathy. between fighting with the crank nut and not being able to find 10mm bolts for the balancer puller, it took quite a while. Against my better judgement, i went ahead and worked straight through till i was finished and had it back together. Here in lies the problem. After i "re-installed" the crank bolt into the end of the crank, lined it up to TDC pulled off the old belt and put on the new one. I tried to pull the crank bolt out and it was stuck. I pulled and pulled with a huge breaker and it still didnt want to come out. I tried holding the crank with my chain wrench i bought and it still turned. So i put a socket wrench on each of the cam bolts, locked them into place and gave the 27mm bolt a mighty heave, thats when it happened, the timing belt skipped some teeth. In my "been up for 22 hour haze" i tried to figure out how i would find TDC again without messing stuff up. Well, to say the least i EPIC failed, my logical deduction was complete crap at the time, so i made a bad call. "even though i did in fact turn it over manually by hand like 8 turns without any real resistance or funky feeling stuff" so i thought i was good to go. However when i fired it up, i had valve slap on the passenger side. Currently I am tearing down the front of the motor again to get back to the timing belt and cam gears, I am also tearing down the top end to pull the heads and send em to the machine shop. I will bring her back to life. I do have a question or 2. After the heads are out of the Pathy, and i get em redone, I will have the number 1 piston at top dead center when i go to re- install the heads. 1st question being. Anyone have any tips as to how not to tighten down the heads without having them set wonkey so u bend a valve just from torquing the heads? My thoughts on the matter was to put on the cam gears and set the timing mark proper before torquing them down. or to remove the rails and the rockers before putting them on and then re-install them after i have them torqued to spec with the cam gears and timing belt on and lined up. if that wont work or if their is a better way someone knows, i would appreciate an advice. i would hate to get the heads redone just to jack them up putting them back on. i would in fact probably cry in the fetal position for days. Ok 2nd question is, does anyone have any advice about how to steady the cam gear while your pulling the bolt out without a cam lock tool. I was thinking of maybe making one that will work or trying to use the old belt wrapped around it trick. but if someone else has been where I am and knows any shortcuts, again i would love some advice. this is my first run in with over head cams and an interference motor so I figured i would ask before i did something stupid "again" Thanks in advance for any input. ( "BTW a side note, my driver side cam gear was one tooth out when i got in there to take a look before i changed the belt" ) Things i learned doing this job. 1. Don't work on your truck for over 24hours straight. 2. I really need to purchase an impact wrench 3. If your crank bolt does get stuck, you can use one of the old belts wrapped around the crank really tight and hooked onto a metal pipe to leverage your way out of the unfortunate situation. 4. It is much easier to tap the 10mm balancer holes to 1/4 inch and use two 1/4 x 20 4" bolts with a couple of washers and the blancer puller to get it off rather than drive around to 7 different stores over a period of about 3 and 1/2 hours to find 4 inch 10mm bolts. "i also figured i could buy some allthread, but the number 10 is in fact, not 10mm x 20. At least it wasnt here i bought it." Best regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I would pull the rocker arms. Not much torque on the bolts and it will ensure that you won't have any valve interference when putting the heads on. I steady the cam gear by shoging a big screwdriver through the cam gear holle and wedging it against the inside of the backplate. Another way it to use a timing belt around just the gear, pull it together close to the gear and clamp it (use an old timing belt). This will act like a really good strap wrench. Now throw a wrench or pipe through the other end of the timing belt loop and wedge it somewhere. With my 95, I loosened the crank bolt by putting a long handle on the breakerbar and letting it against the ground or something (be careful on which side) and hit the starter with a burst or two. LOTS of torque to loosen the thing. As far as timing, on a VG30E (my 95) there are marks where you want to lineup your crank as well as your cams AND there are specs to how many teeth are between those marks. Do you have FSM for your truck? If not, download one and it should give you all the good info you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96se4x4 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I just did mine about 2 weeks ago.There is a great writeup on this site for changing the timining belt on the VG33.It also has specs for counting the teeth between the right and left cam sprocket and the left cam sprocket and crank.Don't just use the punch marks as a guide.They are not very acurate.Mine were about 3 teeth of.And if you have everything lined up right your crank should be at 5 O'clock. Buy an electric impact.Thats what I did.$86 at Orielly's.Worked great.I had to turn my cam sprockets manually cause they were off.I didn't have any problems.My truck runs awesome now. Sorry I can't help you with the heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96se4x4 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Btw, the bolts you need for the balancer puller are not 10mm.They are 6mmx1.00.I had to buy some.the puller I rented didn't have the right size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Btw, the bolts you need for the balancer puller are not 10mm.They are 6mmx1.00.I had to buy some.the puller I rented didn't have the right size. I wasn't sure of the size, so i just grabbed a couple of bolts i had laying around and tried the threads. The 10mm went in smoothly with no slop so that is what i went in search of. couldn't find any that size to fit to the holes with the puller tool, so i just tapped the pulley to a 1/4 inch. bought 2 1/4 " x 4" bolts and pulled the balancer off fine. maybe the previous owner did a mod to it and didn't document it or something. /shrug. worked well though. Thank you for the info much appreciated. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I just did mine about 2 weeks ago.There is a great writeup on this site for changing the timining belt on the VG33.It also has specs for counting the teeth between the right and left cam sprocket and the left cam sprocket and crank.Don't just use the punch marks as a guide.They are not very acurate.Mine were about 3 teeth of.And if you have everything lined up right your crank should be at 5 O'clock. Buy an electric impact.Thats what I did.$86 at Orielly's.Worked great.I had to turn my cam sprockets manually cause they were off.I didn't have any problems.My truck runs awesome now. Sorry I can't help you with the heads. Ya I had the WP and thermostat on, I lined up the timing marks, the driver side was one tooth out, so i set it where it should have been, swapped the belt out and was getting ready to put the lower timing cover back on. The darn crank bolt got stuck and i couldnt get it out. I had a 28" 1/2 drive breaker bar on it, with part of the handle to my 3 ton floor jack for extra leverage. the issue I ran into was kindof stupid on my end, "at this point i had been up over 24 hours and was trying to get it done." so to say the least, it wasn't really my most shining automotive repair moment. I will try to explain how i killed my valves to the best of my recollection. I tried my chain wrench on the crank itself, and it slipped. so i put a 3/8 drive ratchet on the cam gears and wedged them to lock them in place, well instead of the bolt letting go, the timing belt skipped teeth. If i would have stopped there and reset everything i think i would have been ok. Like i said tho i wasnt really thinking clearly at the time. "funny about the hind sight" So instead of stopping and backing up the crank that turned and reseting the timing belt and tensioner, i gave it a couple of more pulls, i believe the 3 time it slipped i actually hurt a valve myself. more than likely the number 2 intake valve. After the third failure, i stopped to take another look at everything and noticed that the timing lines on the belt didnt line up anymore. " ok at this point what i should have done was stop messing with it, pull the belt off of the crank sprocket and back the crank up about 6 teeth and put the belt back on. then it would have been in time again. since the crank spun some but the cam gears didnt. but i didnt, i took everything another full revolution until i was TDC on the number one and then looked at everything. the cam gears lined up but the crank gear was about 6 teeth off. so i removed the belt and turned the crank till it was where it should have been, put the belt back on, counted the valleys in the belt from the crank to the drivers side cam gear mark. 43. so good to go right? i thought so, but when i started her up bad joo joo passenger side. so i think i hurt the valve when the cam was rotating because the belt wasnt holding it against all the torque i was putting on it. ya i know its all kindof crazy, but like i said not my most shining moment. so ya i killed it myself. and it kindof kills me in the face to think about it. the only thing left to do is take the heads off this weekend and get em out the the machine shop, and hope i didnt crack the piston when i started it up. thinks havent really been going my way of late so im not holding my breath. it could have went down differently, im not sure that im remembering the details correctly or clearly, the only thing i know for sure is the belt skipped, and tdc was on the money cause i shoved a straw with a shop towel wrapped around the bottom and taped in to the spark plug hole on number one. i turned it over and when the straw was blown out of the sparkplug hole, i flipped it over and put it back in the hole till it went all the way up, and then started down. then i backed up the crank a hair till it was all the way up again. Thank you for your time and your input, it is much appreciated Pat Edited October 18, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 I would pull the rocker arms. Not much torque on the bolts and it will ensure that you won't have any valve interference when putting the heads on. I steady the cam gear by shoging a big screwdriver through the cam gear holle and wedging it against the inside of the backplate. Another way it to use a timing belt around just the gear, pull it together close to the gear and clamp it (use an old timing belt). This will act like a really good strap wrench. Now throw a wrench or pipe through the other end of the timing belt loop and wedge it somewhere. With my 95, I loosened the crank bolt by putting a long handle on the breakerbar and letting it against the ground or something (be careful on which side) and hit the starter with a burst or two. LOTS of torque to loosen the thing. As far as timing, on a VG30E (my 95) there are marks where you want to lineup your crank as well as your cams AND there are specs to how many teeth are between those marks. Do you have FSM for your truck? If not, download one and it should give you all the good info you are looking for. thank you very much for the advice about how not to kill my heads after i get em machined. Yes sir i have the FSM. I counted the teeth,....sigh its a long story really, i tried to explain it in a reply to another post down bellow but like i said there, im not sure it was entirely accurate, thats just to my best recollection. I like the trick with the crank bolt. i tried it the first time and it kept throwin my breaker bar off. =( i did get it loose with the old AC compressor belt wrapped around the crank x2 and put through a leverage bar twisted tight and help with my right hand while i pushed on my breaker bar with my left. came right out. good idea on the cam gears also, i do still have the old timing belt and i will be sure to give that a try, it worked on the crank it should work on the cams as well. Again, much thanks for your time and advice sir. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Thank you to all u guys that replied and tried to help me out. I will keep you posted as best as i can on the progress. For those of you that are interested in knowing if i get her fixed or not. I have a loaner vehicle for the week, and next week too, so i have a fairly small window on the weekend to rip it back apart and pull the heads to get em to the machine shop on monday. I hope they arent too backed up, and i can get em back by friday at the latest to put them back on. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Update on the progress. I finally had a chance to pull the heads off. Oddly enough there is no damage to the top of the pistons or any of the valves. they have a good seal. I pored some liquid in each chamber and let it set while i was working on other things. Came back about 20mins later and the liquid was still at the same level as i left it. Needless to say the search continues for the....what I'm calling the "mystery knock" hopefully the bottom end of the motor is ok. but i don't see why it wouldn't be. I will update u guys as i progress through this, just in case any of you are curious. Thank you again for your input Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hytekrednek Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Good luck and I hope that you find things ok. The nock may be in the heads themselves. So check there before you go any deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Ok, heads are off and broke down and shiny and probably happy. "not sure about that last one because im not the pathy whisper'er"...................yet. Maybe, a small stress fracture in the lifter guide plate. *scratches head. other than that the heads seem good to go. Probably going to order new lifters and euro cams and just take it to the machine shop in the next payday or 2. Knock sensor has a massive crack down the front of it, so have to get one of those. Driver side exhaust manifold is cracked almost all the way around in two different places. Will update you guys again and try to get a bunch of pics and possibly a video or two if i can find someone with a steady hand that can rock a phone video of the re assembly for me. hard to find good help these days though =) Patrick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Heads are at the machine shop. New upper end gasket kit came in this week, along with the knock sensor, head bolts and Driver side exhaust manifold and new lifters YAY! mr pathy will live again sooon!!!!!!! Edited November 9, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Curious? How much do machine shops up there charge for the valve job? My local (only) shop wanted $400 to do the valves, machine the surfaces, and perform a vacuum check on my wife's 4cyl Honda motor. I opted not to leave the head with them as I thought that sounded a little steep. Actually, I found a donor motor on Craigslist for $100 and pulled the head off of it and mounted it to the motor. Other than a very noisy intake valve, it has been running pretty well. We just can't take the noise any more and want to have the old head reworked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 one wanted 250 for the pressure test, machining if it was called for, and a 3 angle valve job. Took it to one that cleaned, pressure tested, made sure the heads were true, and put in new viton valve stem seats for 110. good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yep. They were trying to screw me. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 OK, fellas as of 5:30am tuesday morning, SHE IS ALIVE...................ALIIIIIIIVE.!!! drove it to work one day with a power steering fluid cap over the EGR nozzle cause i couldnt get the stupid tube out of the ol exhaust lol. Was also throwing a bank 2 sensor 1 code. according to torque app the o2 sensor was shot so replaced it. Wednesday morning got the tube out, and replaced o2 sensor. put the tube on the egr. set timing and idle, and everything seems to be doing fine. I have a BUNCH of pics to post soon as i get time to sort em and post em. thanks for the support guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Glad to hear she is back on her feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) tryin to figure out how to operate photo bucket, all pics and 2 short vids are uploaded please bear with me. is this too large? if a moderator could please let me know i can link a bunch of pics Edited December 27, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) hmm is this the button? http://s997.photobucket.com/user/shetlist/media/FIRSTSTART_zpsd9be1853.mp4.html not a bad fire up for the batter being unhooked for 6 weeks or so yay! ? ! Edited December 27, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 nice job! its always satisfying when a project works out the way you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 OK, fellas as of 5:30am tuesday morning, SHE IS ALIVE...................ALIIIIIIIVE.!!! drove it to work one day with a power steering fluid cap over the EGR nozzle cause i couldnt get the stupid tube out of the ol exhaust lol. Was also throwing a bank 2 sensor 1 code. according to torque app the o2 sensor was shot so replaced it. Wednesday morning got the tube out, and replaced o2 sensor. put the tube on the egr. set timing and idle, and everything seems to be doing fine. I have a BUNCH of pics to post soon as i get time to sort em and post em. thanks for the support guys. I love Torque! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) well hopefully the pic on the previous page wasn't too large, I am about to post a bunch o pics of my adventure with mr pathy. on the way down Edited December 27, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) pulled off heads, pulled out bad knock sensor crusty cam crusty guide plate crusty rocker crusty intake, upper and lower getting ready to car wash them =) eww crustastic lower help is here got to this point with the help of mr ehaust bolts were either stuck or rusted, got a couple out but figured a hose clamp around the pipe and mr sawsall would be way easier. Edited December 27, 2013 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 wow finished whole story then was tooled too many pics *sniffle" well will multi post, hope the admins dont mind or the content isnt taking up too much space. back side of TB shiney happy rocker surface lifter guide plate cracked? nay, sanded out, it was just casting marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 heads off to send to mechanist Mechanist said they were true, and cleaned them, flow tested them, said nothing crazy, they were good to go, so i had him install the Viton valve stem seals that came with the upper end gasket kit. shiney happy heads r back from Mechanist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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