Balln Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Hey guys I was wondering if it would be possible to pie cut the bottom of my upper arms and bend them then weld in inserts to gain the better ball joint angle? I would add more material and beef it up just for my piece of mind. We have done it in the past with mini trucks and the balljoint binding. Just pie cut right behind the balljoint lay the truck out then make inserts and weld them in. I have the access to material and a Tig welder at work and the only cost would be getting the arms from the JY. What's your guys thoughts on it and can anyone supply me with how much the aftermarket bent arms are bent more then factory? I know I could make a jig and build full custom arms but I really don't want to spend all the time that , that project would take. I'm hoping I can wam bam thank you mam these arms at work in one day. Thoughts? Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhornet Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 nothing wrong with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Personally I am against modifying factory one piece components such as center links and arms. You completely compromise their structural integrity. You can get aftermarket tubular arms and play with those instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The original aftermarket UCA's were stock arms with a ball joint spacer welded in and the bottom of the arm fully boxed, no they don't correct the angle but that's how they were before the tubular ones became available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor636 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Personally I am against modifying factory one piece components such as center links and arms. You completely compromise their structural integrity. You can get aftermarket tubular arms and play with those instead. If he bought aftermarket tubular arms, what the hell would he need to play with? They would already have the angle built in he was trying to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) nothing wrong with that Personally I am against modifying factory one piece components such as center links and arms. You completely compromise their structural integrity. You can get aftermarket tubular arms and play with those instead. The original aftermarket UCA's were stock arms with a ball joint spacer welded in and the bottom of the arm fully boxed, no they don't correct the angle but that's how they were before the tubular ones became available. If he bought aftermarket tubular arms, what the hell would he need to play with? They would already have the angle built in he was trying to achieve. nothing wrong with that Yeah I really don't see either Personally I am against modifying factory one piece components such as center links and arms. You completely compromise their structural integrity. You can get aftermarket tubular arms and play with those instead. Well I'm with you on cutting stock stuff up but I will be beefing it up more then stock. I Tig weld on big ass turbine parts and my welds are good enuff for them to generate power to run cities then they should be.good enuff for some A-arms. Lol. But the whole idea is to save $ I think those arms are to pricey for what they are and do. And I understand if they break then I will be spending a lot of $ in repairs but I really don't see them breaking. The original aftermarket UCA's were stock arms with a ball joint spacer welded in and the bottom of the arm fully boxed, no they don't correct the angle but that's how they were before the tubular ones became available. Hmmm didn't know that but I've heard not to run those balljoint spacers and the stock arms with cranked T-bars make it impossible to get a tire alignment done. So I'm really wanting to have some angled arms. If he bought aftermarket tubular arms, what the hell would he need to play with? They would already have the angle built in he was trying to achieve. Lol in a nicer way yes what he said. I have seen some shady @!*% done to some bagged mini trucks that are still holding up. I have a friend that bought a bagged truck and the 4-link tabs where only welded on the outsides. The truck started swaying back and forth and I told him to let me the #&*% out. He still drives it daily like that and its still running strong lol. What do you guys think the going price would be for some stock upper arms? And I'm thinking the best and easiest way to get the angle is if someone who has some aftermarket arms can make a templete with cardboard of the angle and ill pay to mail it to me? Edited July 6, 2012 by Balln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Hmmm didn't know that but I've heard not to run those balljoint spacers and the stock arms with cranked T-bars make it impossible to get a tire alignment done. So I'm really wanting to have some angled arms. I ran those exact UCA's for many years in my old harbody, cranked up with 2 stage torsion bars and body lift running 35's at first than late 33's, never had a problem getting the truck aligned, just depends on who does the alignment, luckily a guy I graduated HS with and his father owned a body shop/alignment place, and my HS friend always did my alignments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) The stock arms allow plenty of room for alignment with bigger tires but it's only the bolts that attach them are too short from factory. You need longer bolts to be able to stack more shims for camber correction. Ball-joint spacers are a plus but you most likely will not need them. Only in the most extreme cases would you even need aftermarket tubular arms. You can tweak the tubular arms if you wanted to for whatever reason without issues since they should be heavy duty. There should be no need to do that though. Edited July 7, 2012 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) My hardbody never needed longer bolts to align it, and it didn't have a bunch of shims between the arm and the frame either. The purpose of the ball joint spacer in the modified arms is to allow you to crank in more lift before the arm makes contact with the bump stop. The tubular arms has nothing to do with "extreme cases" as you say, the purpose of the tubular arms was to eliminate the ball joint spacer as the tubular arm is angled to allow more lift to be cranked in than if you were using the stock arms. Edited July 7, 2012 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 The stock arms allow plenty of room for alignment with bigger tires but it's only the bolts that attach them are too short from factory. You need longer bolts to be able to stack more shims for camber correction. Ball-joint spacers are a plus but you most likely will not need them. Only in the most extreme cases would you even need aftermarket tubular arms. You can tweak the tubular arms if you wanted to for whatever reason without issues since they should be heavy duty. There should be no need to do that though. The whole reason i plan on going this route is to ditch the price tag on aftermarket arms and lifting my pathy. So if i where to buy them i would not modify them. I wanna use stock ones becuase they are cheapier and i can build them my way and box them in and all that good stuff to make them different from all the others out there. And correct me if im wrong but the only difference between stock arms and aftermarket arms other then looks is that the end (where the ball joint mounts) is angled more? If so then i would still have to get longer bolts to be able to stack more shims for camber correction. I never heard any of the guys that have aftermarket arms running into this problem but i can be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 you are correct the tubular arms are designed to give lift without the ball joint spacer, you may be able to re-work the stock arms and still get the truck aligned with the stock bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 My hardbody never needed longer bolts to align it, and it didn't have a bunch of shims between the arm and the frame either. The purpose of the ball joint spacer in the modified arms is to allow you to crank in more lift before the arm makes contact with the bump stop. The tubular arms has nothing to do with "extreme cases" as you say, the purpose of the tubular arms was to eliminate the ball joint spacer as the tubular arm is angled to allow more lift to be cranked in than if you were using the stock arms. Im starting to get confused weather i even need angled arms are not? lol And i was looking at my arms today and it seems like there is already a spacer between my balljoint and upper arm? not sure if thats stock or not? So i can either run stock arms with no mods what so ever and bolt on a set of spacers and i will not have any issues getting it alighned? Or just buy some stock arms angle them up a bit and weld them up and have no issues with an alighnment? The junk yards want from $50-100 for both stock upper arms and balljoint spacers are $100 shipped. Thanks guys for helping me out im just trying to figure out the cheapist way to lift my pathy but not half ass it. I could go out there now and take the bump stops out and crank the @!*% out of my T-bars and let it roll but i dont wanna do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 you are correct the tubular arms are designed to give lift without the ball joint spacer, you may be able to re-work the stock arms and still get the truck aligned with the stock bolts. ok And when you get aftermarket arms do they give you longer bolts or you use the stock ones? If you use the stock ones then i shouldnt have any issues with angled stock arms seeing how not of that changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) The only time you would need longer bolts is if the truck needed so many shims that the stock bolts are too short. And no the aftermarket arms do not include longer bolts. Modified stock arms could effect the alignment depending on whether the ball joint location moves in or out compared to stock, if you take the stock arm and cut it like you are talking about, bend the end down, reinforce the arm, I would think bending the end down is going to move the ball joint in slightly. Edited July 8, 2012 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Ok cool that makes since. And if i where to angle them they would be angled up more. As you crank the T-bars for more lift the upper arm goes down and the balljoint end goes down cuasing the joint to bind so i would need to angle it up and that would push the ball joint out away from the frame. With that said i would more then likly have to push the arms in towards the frame cuasing it to maybe take shims out rather then installing them. Correct? I guess ill be the ginny pig and try it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 do yourself a favor if you can and pick up a pair of arms from a junkyard in case your plan doesn't work out, that way you can work on the arms and still have your truck to drive. Sorry I meant up, only problem I see with doing that is you are changing the angle of the ball joint, BUT the area of the arm that contacts the bump stop will be in the same place, so you would still get the same amount of lift as if the arms were stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Yeah thats what i was planning on doing getting them from a yard. And yeah that was another concern with the bump stop area. Well i got alot of my concerns answered and i guess its time to get some and just cut them up. I can always recess the bump stop sectin into the arm a bit. i guess i can just play with them and see what i come up with. Thanks agian guys i plan on updating this thread with what i find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 If you have the capability to modify the stock arms why not make a pair of tubular arms? Would have to be cheaper than buying a set 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balln Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 The way i would build tube arms i would have to make jigs and really dont want to lol. I have it in my head to modify stock stuff and im just kinda going with it lol. I dont plan on paying the prices from a JY. There are a couple pathys being parted out by private sellers hopfully i can pick some up for cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I've just made up a jig and made some new upper arms myself. 1 thing became apparent when doing all the measurements etc, the angle of the top BJ doesn't affect the alignment at all, and it won't tolerate more angle than the 10 (from memory...I'll hafta check) deg it is at already. In fact it gets lots more angle at full compression than at full extension, even allowing for an extra 3" droop. Don't increase the balljoint angle! To get the correct alignment at 3" lift, the arms need to be around 12mm (1/2") longer than stock. If I was doing it, I'd cut through the top of the arm just outside of the bumpstop pad, bend it down, then cut it just short of the bj mounting area at the bottom of the arm and bend it back up to correct the angle, which should also effectively lengthen the arm. Fill all the gaps with a bit of 3mm plate or something and give it a go. Edited July 9, 2012 by andrewt6447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 That's exactly what I plan on doing as soon as I find some used oem arms for cheap. Cut and bend the angle by the balljoint and fill in the triangle holes left and cut down the stock bump pad shorter and re weld it back on. I figure after that alignment should be easy to get close and travel increased quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If you get the end of the arm down 1 1/2" it'll give you 3" of extra travel without changing the bumpstop pads at all. The stock pad is pretty flush already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 When you say end of the ARM down, do you mean the part where the balljoint attaches?? At the very end of the ARM? Like make it step down towards the ground like a built in balljoint spacer? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Now you mention it, that would probably be the easiest way to go, just chop the whole end off drop it 1 1/2 " then weld it back on and gusset the sh*t out of it. The angle from the pivot to the bj should be re-adjusted to 10deg from flat and add the extra length too. I was initially thinking of cutting the arm halfway and angling the rest of it down so it made a ~ shape..... I'm now thinking cut it right where the V meets, weld on a 3" deep peice of 1/4" flat flush with the top of the arm so it protrudes around 1 1/2" below, weld the end bit back on flush with the bottom of this plate, but re-angled. Then you could weld a triangle shape bit of 1 1/2 X 1 1/2 " rhs (around the same size as the arm) that angles back from the bottom of the plate to the bumpstop pad, and a couple of decent gussets on top of the bj pad back to the top of that plate. Sound easy enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Sounds like a fun weekend. My pathy is now parked for a few months to do some serious work ( front and rear lsds, modified front ucas for longer travel, more armor ) just waiting on my coilovers for my 240sx and then its pathy time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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