STILL have a loud tapping

[1994SEV6]

Before I did my whole transmission swap, I had a loud tapping. I had a bunch of people tell me it was a rod knock, but I drove it like this for about 5000 miles. Pretty much, it was put to me like this. It's not worth fixing, so keep driving it. I was never convinced it was a rod knock though.

 

So I came across this forum and a few others and I was sure it was my broken exhaust manifold studs. I took the manifolds off, and sure enough, I had three broken studs. YES!!! YES!!! I thought. Finally, I'll get rid of that deafening tapping.

 

So I drilled out the broken studs, got the heads all cleaned up and looking nice. I went to the hardware store and got new bolts. I got seven 10.9 m8 30mmx1.25 and 5 8.8s. I think that's what they are. I got the proper size and thread, but I got 30mm. I thought the proper size was 30mm, but then someone told me it was 25mm. I would have to use spacers with the 30mm. I didn't have spacers, so I tested one of the bolts, and it fit fine.

 

So I got new gaskets, and put the manifolds on. I put the bolts in about 30 ft. lbs and I used some Locktite on them.

 

I got everything hooked up.

I start the truck up for the first time in 6 weeks and... TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP.

 

I want to kill myself. I know it's not a rod knock, but this is pissing me off. And what's worse, I'm the only one that can clearly hear it apparently. To me, it's DEAFENING. I can't hear anything over the tapping, but I asked my dad and he's like "what tapping? What are you talking about? You mean that REALLY faint tapping noise? that's nothing. I really don't hear what you're talking about"

 

What's going on here? Is it possible that the bolts aren't tight? I thought they were tight, but in actuality, I was just at the bottom of the threads? Is it possible that one of the studs broke already? From being torqued down too hard or something?

[Precise1]

Use a mechanic's stethescope (or a solid rod/long screw driver) to try to locate the source of the noise.

 

So I got new gaskets, and put the manifolds on. I put the bolts in about 30 ft. lbs and I used some Locktite on them.

FYI that is too tight IIRC, it is something like 12-15ft/lbs?

 

Is your dad deaf or are you a dog?

 

It is possible that you have bottomed out. Get a longer bolt with the same threads and check to see how deep it will thread in before it bottoms out.

 

B

[sewebster]

Yeah, the 8 mm stud torque is quite low.

 

Could be a bad lifter (or more than one).

[1994SEV6]

Use a mechanic's stethescope (or a solid rod/long screw driver) to try to locate the source of the noise.

 

 

FYI that is too tight IIRC, it is something like 12-15ft/lbs?

 

Is your dad deaf or are you a dog?

 

It is possible that you have bottomed out. Get a longer bolt with the same threads and check to see how deep it will thread in before it bottoms out.

 

B

I used a good screwdriver once and put it around on some parts. It was pretty cool what I could hear, but nothing sounded off. I tried to put the screw driver on the intake, the ac compressor (separate issue), and I tried to get it on the block, but I don't think I did. It was a bit hard to get to the exhaust, so I might go get one and try that.

 

I don't know the torque one the bolts, I just did them arm-tight. These are bolts, not studs. I know that makes a little bit of a difference. What happens if they are too tight? Besides ruining the threads on the head or something?

 

I would like to think my dad's not deaf. He can hear me pretty well, but it's in his late 40s.

I do have really good hearing, but I know it's not some Daredevil stuff

 

Yeah, the 8 mm stud torque is quite low.

 

Could be a bad lifter (or more than one).

 

Is that common on the vg30s? I haven't heard of those really being a problem on these. Also, my engine is fairly low mileage (130k), and I've been using very high quality oil

Edited December 21, 2011 by 1994SEV6

[nismothunder]

The locktite didnt cause it, but you should use antiseize instead (just cause I say so)

 

Just for laughs, the noise does go away after the engine has warmed up right?

 

If not then yeah, its something else. Like a lifter or something getting bitchy.

[1994SEV6]

The locktite didnt cause it, but you should use antiseize instead (just cause I say so)

 

Just for laughs, the noise does go away after the engine has warmed up right?

 

If not then yeah, its something else. Like a lifter or something getting bitchy.

Lol. I know the Locktite isn't causing the problem

Nothing changes when it warms up. That was actually the one doubt that I had about broken manifold studs. It's weird actually, I had 3 broken studs, I replaced them, and nothing changed.

[nismothunder]

I would like to think my dad's not deaf. He can hear me pretty well, but it's in his late 40s.

I do have really good hearing, but I know it's not some Daredevil stuff

 

 

 

Is that common on the vg30s? I haven't heard of those really being a problem on these. Also, my engine is fairly low mileage (130k), and I've been using very high quality oil

 

Sticky lifters? Yeah, there old trucks that most likly had dino oil ran in them the first 17+ years.

 

 

Refering too a farther as an It isnt the brightest thing to do.

[nismothunder]

Lol. I know the Locktite isn't causing the problem

Nothing changes when it warms up. That was actually the one doubt that I had about broken manifold studs. It's weird actually, I had 3 broken studs, I replaced them, and nothing changed.

 

Holy @!*% your fast at responding. Check the water pump play and if thats fine flush the engine and see if it gets any better. Lifters arent a big deal, more noise then harm.

[sewebster]

Is that common on the vg30s? I haven't heard of those really being a problem on these. Also, my engine is fairly low mileage (130k), and I've been using very high quality oil

 

Pretty common I'd say. Usually it's just on startup... valve noise of some sort is common on lots of engines in general. Basically try to find out if it's coming from the top end or bottom end.

[nunya]

Refering too a farther as an It isnt the brightest thing to do.

not too often I actually agree with nismoblunder

 

 

Personally, just to make sure it ain't a manifold issue I would snag some washers for those long bolts because as stated there's a possibility of them being bottomed out and acting as tight while still having enough clearance to make that difference. Torque everything back down to it's correct limits (don't want a manifold to warp or screw up one of those nice new gaskets). Just to take the repairs done out of the equation. Some poking with a mechanics stethoscope can do some wonders as well (the screwdriver trick works, but just imagine what it misses compared to something designed for that purpose! Plus you can generally get a stethoscope into some of those hard to access areas a screwdriver blade is just to fat for). Does it make th noise with all the accessory belts removed? Onl takes a couple minutes to pull the belts to eliminate all the stuff routed that way from the equation a well. Have the ability to make a video/sound clip?

[1994SEV6]

 

Refering too a farther as an It isnt the brightest thing to do.

WOW. I totally misread that. It was so confusing how you typed that. Yeah, that was a typo.

I thought you were trying to say "referring a father isn't the brightest thing to do"

 

 

Hmm. I will go ahead and make a better video tomorrow. I have one or two, but I don't think they are worth posting on here. I will definitely take my accessory belts off. I think I have some whirring coming from the AC compressor. Are these known for failing?

I'm a little hesitant to remove anything from the engine bay. I'm not sure why, I guess I'm just scared of messing something up, but it would definitely help.

Edited December 22, 2011 by 1994SEV6

[Precise1]

Agreed on the scope, for the $10-15 you pay they work so well that everyone who works things should own one. No one buys them at my recommendation though, it seems like they already have them or they just don't get it.

 

The 30mm bolts worked fine with me with Thorley headers and I'm pretty sure that factory cast manifolds are thicker at the mounting points. When Poop gets off of me I'll grab some calipers and do some measuring.

 

Calipers, another thing people either already have or don't get the value of...

 

:shrug:/:shrug:

 

 

 

I used a good screwdriver once and put it around on some parts. It was pretty cool what I could hear, but nothing sounded off. I tried to put the screw driver on the intake, the ac compressor (separate issue), and I tried to get it on the block, but I don't think I did. It was a bit hard to get to the exhaust, so I might go get one and try that.

 

I don't know the torque one the bolts, I just did them arm-tight. These are bolts, not studs. I know that makes a little bit of a difference. What happens if they are too tight? Besides ruining the threads on the head or something?

 

I would like to think my dad's not deaf. He can hear me pretty well, but it's in his late 40s.

I do have really good hearing, but I know it's not some Daredevil stuff

 

Yeah, if you have a few dollars handy, grab one. You'll use it for years and it'll pay for its self with the first problem/question it solves/answers for you.

 

As Nunya said, you can warp the components, actually causing them to leak and you can damage the threads on the aluminum heads. A torque wrench would be another really important tool if you keep working on things. 10-90 or 100 ft/lbs will deal with 95% of applications and you can get them for $50 and under. I prefer clickers but a beam type will work fine also.

 

I was joking about the hearing, I should have put a smiley. I was a little rushed at work.

 

B

[1994SEV6]

Agreed on the scope, for the $10-15 you pay they work so well that everyone who works things should own one. No one buys them at my recommendation though, it seems like they already have them or they just don't get it.

 

The 30mm bolts worked fine with me with Thorley headers and I'm pretty sure that factory cast manifolds are thicker at the mounting points. When Poop gets off of me I'll grab some calipers and do some measuring.

 

Calipers, another thing people either already have or don't get the value of...

 

:shrug:/:shrug:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, if you have a few dollars handy, grab one. You'll use it for years and it'll pay for its self with the first problem/question it solves/answers for you.

 

As Nunya said, you can warp the components, actually causing them to leak and you can damage the threads on the aluminum heads. A torque wrench would be another really important tool if you keep working on things. 10-90 or 100 ft/lbs will deal with 95% of applications and you can get them for $50 and under. I prefer clickers but a beam type will work fine also.

 

I was joking about the hearing, I should have put a smiley. I was a little rushed at work.

 

B

I am definitely expanding my tool collection since I'm so young. But I need to get the basics for sure. The only problem is, I don't know where to get that type of stuff. I know I can get some decent stuff from Home Depot or Sears, but those are about 10 miles away. tools from AAP or Autozone..eek.

 

I know you were joking about the hearing, but sometimes I worry. It seems like I'm the only one who can hear it.

Edited December 22, 2011 by 1994SEV6

[adamzan]

10 miles? Really, that is like 16km, which is not far at all. Hell I'd bike that distance if I had to.

[Precise1]

Well, once you pick things up, it doesn't matter how far the store is.

Just saying...

One generally buys per job, but there are a few things to invest in. In my opinion the torque wrench, caliper and stethescope are tools that are used for years and can not be substituted so are important to have available for any job and can be had for about $100 total. I understand young (and probably broke), I've been there!! Just do what you can...

 

Ok, so if you are the only one that can hear it, it doesn't sound like a big problem.

What weight oil are you running? I recall someone running thicker oil and getting lifter noise, and switching to thinner only to have it go away. Where abouts do you live and what thickness oil do you have?

 

B

[1994SEV6]

Well, once you pick things up, it doesn't matter how far the store is.

Just saying...

One generally buys per job, but there are a few things to invest in. In my opinion the torque wrench, caliper and stethescope are tools that are used for years and can not be substituted so are important to have available for any job and can be had for about $100 total. I understand young (and probably broke), I've been there!! Just do what you can...

 

Ok, so if you are the only one that can hear it, it doesn't sound like a big problem.

What weight oil are you running? I recall someone running thicker oil and getting lifter noise, and switching to thinner only to have it go away. Where abouts do you live and what thickness oil do you have?

 

B

I live pretty much in the DC area. We max out at about 95 (at the very hottest) degrees, and get down to about 20 or so if it's a brutal winter. I think I'm running what the owner's manual recommends. I think it's 5w30. Royal Purple.

[Trogdor636]

Get it shipped. Seriously, if its too far to go get, then get them shipped to your door. The more you sit around and think about going to get it, you could of had it ordered and at your door. I actually got one from Harbor Frieght for under 5 bucks, I dont normally recommend them for much, but they work pretty decent. Not something you want to wear for a period of time, but you arent a real doctor so no need.

[silver97ex]

I agree with the stethescope too. I love mine.

 

I had/have a terrible ticking as well. I (used to be a tech), along with the 3 current techs I talked to traced it down to driver's side lifters. Being cheap, I replaced just the driver's side last Friday, absolutely no change whatsoever. I took it to a machine shop the builds heads and engines etc... and after listening to it, he said it is definitely lifter noise, and he said driver's side... NOW WHAT??? He told me to run a thicker oil, w/ a qt of trans fluid... First I am going to check oil pressure with a mechanical gauge, not having proper oil pressure can cause lifter noise (lack of pressure) if I'm not mistaken. I have 232,xxx miles on mine, would love to keep going with it.

[Towncivilian]

I agree with the stethescope too. I love mine.

 

I had/have a terrible ticking as well. I (used to be a tech), along with the 3 current techs I talked to traced it down to driver's side lifters. Being cheap, I replaced just the driver's side last Friday, absolutely no change whatsoever. I took it to a machine shop the builds heads and engines etc... and after listening to it, he said it is definitely lifter noise, and he said driver's side... NOW WHAT??? He told me to run a thicker oil, w/ a qt of trans fluid... First I am going to check oil pressure with a mechanical gauge, not having proper oil pressure can cause lifter noise (lack of pressure) if I'm not mistaken. I have 232,xxx miles on mine, would love to keep going with it.

Eh, why use transmission fluid in the crankcase? Read starting this thread for my thoughts about that.

[Precise1]

I live pretty much in the DC area. We max out at about 95 (at the very hottest) degrees, and get down to about 20 or so if it's a brutal winter. I think I'm running what the owner's manual recommends. I think it's 5w30. Royal Purple.

This might be some of the problem, 5w30 synthetic might be too thin. Next time you do an oil change, try some Castrol 10w30 or 10-40, both should be fine from 10-100 degrees IIRC. Remember, 5-30 synthetic wasn't even on the market when this motor was designed...

 

It couldn't hurt to do an an engine case flush before hand. I'll try to look up what I used, but most any should work fine, just follow the directions to the letter and flush it with cheap oil/filter after.

 

B

[Towncivilian]

How is 5W-30 too thin? Any xW-30 grade oil will have viscosity within a 30 grade, whether it be synthetic or conventional. All oil is too thick than necessary below operating temperature, so the thinner the oil is below that, the better - in other words, the lower the "W" number, the better for cold weather operation and for minimizing start-up wear and maximizing fuel efficiency while the engine is not at operating temperature. See this chart.

 

I'm not saying not to run a thicker oil during the summer if desired, there's no harm in that since usually the ambient temperature is high enough that the difference between a 5W and a 10W is negligible.

[Tungsten]

I don't know if this has happened to you but one of the members here, Mr510 to be exact, had some weird valvetrain problem. What happened was the camshaft retainer broke off and the cam walked back and forth within the head. You might want to pull that valve cover off and look in there.

[silver97ex]

^^^^^ Would that cause a lifter type nosie? When I pulled my VC off (to do lifters) I did notice there was a clean spot where it looked like the cam lobes where hitting the lifter guide... This noise is driving me nuts.

[nismothunder]

How is 5W-30 too thin? Any xW-30 grade oil will have viscosity within a 30 grade, whether it be synthetic or conventional. All oil is too thick than necessary below operating temperature, so the thinner the oil is below that, the better - in other words, the lower the "W" number, the better for cold weather operation and for minimizing start-up wear and maximizing fuel efficiency while the engine is not at operating temperature. See this chart.

 

I'm not saying not to run a thicker oil during the summer if desired, there's no harm in that since usually the ambient temperature is high enough that the difference between a 5W and a 10W is negligible.

 

I dont think this was what P1 meant. I think he meant that 5w-30 syn oil is too thin. Which is true, its closer too a 0w/5w-20 then a regular dino 5w-30. Simply pour syn and dino 5w30 side by side and you can see the diffrence.

 

And unless the engine has insanly low miles or has just been rebuilt theres really no point in using a fully synthetic base 3/4 oil in the engine.

[Towncivilian]

Technically, group 3 oils are not truly synthetic (they are hydrocracked) but can be labelled as such in the US and probably Canada. Read here. But yeah, there isn't much point in running synthetic for oil change intervals 5k or less with today's excellent API SN rated conventional oils.

 

What good is the comparison of a conventional vs synthetic pouring? Like I said, what it looks like at ambient temperature isn't what it looks like at operating temperature. The same grade of oil will still be within 9.3 cSt and 12.5 cSt at operating temperature no matter if it's conventional or synthetic. Anywhere within range that is an 30 weight oil at operating temperature. Certainly it's possible to end up with a very light/thin 5W-30 at operating temperature towards the 9.3 cSt number, which will likely shear to a xW-20 after some miles, or end up with a near-40 weight. You'll just need to compare specific oils' product data sheets or virgin oil analyses.