PaMountianbiker Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I am to the point that I cannot decide what to do ?? Should I just spend the money and SAS my pathfinder which I love so much.. Or explore other routes ??? I am most into rock crawling and the Pathy keeps letting me down latley breaking axles ; bending tie rods ; topping out struts; too small of tires 33's Or 35's I want 40's. Should I just bite the bullet and build a badass pathy with 40's Low gears( 5.29's) I would love to do this BUT I'm not rich and I don't know if I can Justify doing this just to keep wheelin my Pathy ???? Help Me!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You already got an axle, there's one step done in that direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm not great at decisions either, but if crawling is what you're into, and it won't leave you eating Ramen and sleeping in the truck, sounds like it'll save you a lot of aggravation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaMountianbiker Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 It's still alot of fabrication and what will be next ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Full exocage, rear roof chop, 1 tons, tube doors, etc etc... I can spend your money for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) You'll still be breaking axles with a sas if you rock crawl... put your money in lockers and you won't... ditto for the tie rods.... I say, keep it.. Edited November 10, 2011 by fleurys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaMountianbiker Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Keep it independant ?? or Sas ??? It will be locked I promise I just don't want to buy a locker for the front if I'm gonna swap it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 well, if you really want 40's, then forget the ifs (unless you install a beefy setup like the ua2011 ford-f150 from randy ellis design)... go with a sas with probably a good dana60 etc... but then again, this is very mucho $$$.... I'm not sure there is a cheap, locked setup for 40's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Weld the diffs, 12" wheel spacers, slap the 40s on and you're good to go! (about the length of your driveway anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My R50 is now known amongst my wheeling friends as "La Blanca VaJay-jay" because of my history of mucking up the engine and bending tie rods. FML! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Vier Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I'd say write down a list of pro's and con's, as well as cost comparisons-I wasn't able to conclude if your other routes entailed getting a different rig for rock crawling? Could always pick up a beater 4x4 and convert it and keep the path to tow or DD Edited November 10, 2011 by Der_Vier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAK Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Get something with a real frame My pathfinder is great but I am always worried about bending the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgallant Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 On the rock crawling it does not matter how well you build it you will break stuff. I see dedicated customs rigs out west here break things and get towed home all time. Good advice was given as to doing the pro's and cons of your build. But I would suggest also thinking about cost and how serious of rock crawling you want to do. You may find no matter where you go with your build it will be expensive to repair when you break things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselmonkey Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I don't know what kind of rock crawling you're into, but 40's are huge. The axle those will require will negate a substantial portion of the ground clearance you just gained (unless you're really good at shaving pumpkins). I see you're in western PA. If the wheeling you do is anything like Paragon or Rausch Creek then you really don't need anything bigger than 35's to do reds with a properly built rig. I run blacks on 33's with only a front locker. On 40's most of the wheeling around here would get pretty boring pretty fast. Plus, unless you managed to hack away a ton of the body and built an LCG rig you'll get pretty tippy off-camber. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with an SAS unless your goal is specifically to have a rock crawling Pathfinder. Save your money and go with something already equipped with solid axles. Edit: Just thought I'd add that lockers will allow you to drive in one wheel traction scenarios. These induce much more stress than wheeling with an open diff. Lockers will allow you to break axles shafts much more easily if you're not controlling your throttle properly. I upgraded my axle shafts and u-joints when I installed my locker. If you're breaking shafts without a locker you need to lay off the gas. Edited November 10, 2011 by dieselmonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) That's what I meant.... with lockers, he will not have to floor it any more and if he does there is less chance of breaking since the load will be divided... A good line choice and moderate throttle can make almost impossible obstacles, possible... sudden change in rotation speed is one of the biggest reason of axle breakage...no matter the size... This is a good example of bad positioning : This is a place where we go often (weir) and this rock I can climb with my path (with my ac lift only), but I am locked all 4, like my friend on the video... He has a dana35 diff with superior axles (g2)super35 axles. Things to remember is that this axle had about 60 hours of life... He just changed it because the other was twisted... My friend has a bad habit of giving too much gas pedal, but he is slacking a bit... anyway, not alot of axle will support the load when the truck is <trapped> like this on the rock.... so again, good line, and moderate skinny pedal will do... Edited November 10, 2011 by fleurys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselmonkey Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) with lockers, he will not have to floor it any more and if he does there is less chance of breaking since the load will be divided... A good line choice and moderate throttle can make almost impossible obstacles, possible... The last sentence is completely true. A locker does not divide load though. Not at all. It allows the wheel with grip to do all the work for as long as it can. Even if it's just one wheel. Open diffs juggle load amongst both wheels and share whatever amount of torque each wheel has traction for until one loses too much traction or free spins. Flooring it is never really a good idea. I can't even think of a time that I had to do that outside of a mud bog. When I've wheeled a stock wrangler on 31's it was all about carefully selecting a line and pedal control. With a manual you can easily rock back and forth to adjust your traction and gain momentum. If you're stuck to the point that doesn't work it's time to call in for recovery. There's no point in breaking your driveline. I never have. Edited November 10, 2011 by dieselmonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 What I mean is that the truck pulls from both wheels... It does <equalize> the way the force is being distributed.... it's not one wheel or the other... That's what I mean by divide.... and one locked all 4, you can clearly feel that the truck has less power because it takes a lot more juice to spin all 4 wheels when you're stuck... so this also help from breaking axles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfftourRoadie96 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Didn't "Go Payhy Go" attempt to do a SAS on his r50????? If I recall, His pockets were REAL DEEP as far as a budget went, and ended up finding out it was not worth the effort with lots of limitatations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 GoPathyGo had a shop do it that didn't exactly do him right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaMountianbiker Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) Staangs Fab from Canada did a r50 pathy already . I can but the setup from them . New4x4er has his done and loves it. His was the guinea pig. I guess I could compromise and get 36" or 37"tires lockers and have a very capable machine that isn't a Jeep which is what I'm looking for. I like driving my pathy on the street too I really don't want an all out of road machine I'm just not sure I want a $10,000 pathy Edited November 11, 2011 by PaMountianbiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverPath Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There are lots of Unibody Cherokees running around with an SAS. They can't be THAT much different underneath. Plate the frame and put a three link underneath. Use a link calculator for the Geometry and go to town! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAK Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There are lots of Unibody Cherokees running around with an SAS. They can't be THAT much different underneath. Plate the frame and put a three link underneath. Use a link calculator for the Geometry and go to town! True with enough welding and extra steel you can probably make it stronger, but I would continue to stress that a Uni-body is not a great way to start an off-road platform. I would choose a vehicle with a lot more aftermarket support, one with solid axles or with good aftermarket SAS possibilities. I think that will just make everything go smoother in the long run. NO JEEPS Find an 85 toyota 4runner I went out with some of those in Alaska this summer, Great little trucks and easy to build becuase the already have solid axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselmonkey Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There are lots of Unibody Cherokees running around with an SAS. They can't be THAT much different underneath. Plate the frame and put a three link underneath. Use a link calculator for the Geometry and go to town! Cherokees are always solid axle Dana 30. No SAS required. They are in fact very different underneath. Definitely don't need to go Jeep to get solid axles. Not sure on the thumbs down though. One of the most capable rigs in our club is an 80's 4 runner with lots of Chevy parts on 35 Interco Boggers. The driver is excellent and an excellent mechanic and that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01silvapathy Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) To start off, right now my truck is sitting with a 6in overall sfd lift on 35x12.5 bfg mud terrains. My truck drives great with the tires, I cut my front fenders a bit to clear the tires but it looks great as many have said. While I havent exactly wheeled the truck with the 35's I have had a few short off road adventures with them doing small hill climbs off camber stuff and mudding and I have to say the truck still feels very capable and willing to go at stuff. Still has plenty of pep and grunt to crawl too. Sure it may not be the fastest thing on the street but it can still pull around alot of ricers and scions ect. But keep in mind I also have the VQ which has alot more pep than that vg. Onto the whole sas deal. To do it right the only way I feel to do a sas is to go tons with a linked setup. Sure you can buy and build a d44 to be as strong as a d60 but for the cost of that you can buy a d60 and do a few upgrades to that....esp if you stay on forums such as pirate or local off road clubs where people sell parts all the time. If you are running 40's you will need a bigger axle than a d44/h233b...simple fact. One tons though it will be more work is the only way to do it. That being said the suspension would probably be a 3link up front with coilovers. As far as the rear id use a 14bolt full float with a 4 link design ridding the rear of the truck from the panhard but still using coils as there is no easy strong way to mount coilovers without cutting and installing a custom cross brace. If I do a sas this will be the likely route I take, cause im planning on running a 38in tire which is no great shake for a stock d60/14bff. Now if you want to run a smaller tire like say a 35 you would be good running a d44 up front. Most jeep guys will say if you build a d44 right it can take the abuse but then again there are alot that say you should run bigger than a 33 on the axle. Personally I know guys running 37's on locked rubicon axles and they still spin shafts from time to time. But if you wanted to keep the cost down and have a solid axle do a d44 and keep the rear suspension and axle geometry stock just like rods truck. You could weld the front and get manual locking hubs to have that taken care of and maybe get a lock right for the rear. Again the best suspension I feel for the front is going to be coilovers with a 3link. Its pretty much impossible to get leaves to mount and get good articulation and pinon angle (as noted with gopathygo's sas). With a link design you can push the axle further forward helping out that pinon angle. The only thing im having trobles with so far is steering since we are stuck with a rack and pinon I know rod used a durango steering box and a custom pump setup but then again I have a completely different motor so that might complicate things but thats something I have to look into a bit more. But good luck man, its something a few ppl are looking into at the moment but soon enough I feel it will become as common as the sfd....just gotta give it some time and allow peoples creative/redneck sides come out Im looking into it but my pathy is still my daily to school and work as well as a work truck to tow a trailer for another job so I need it to work and not be up in the air for a sas. Until then its staying as is and im happy where its at right now. Sure it might be cheaper and easier to buy an old piece of junk cherokee but everybody and their cheerleader sister owns a cherokee Edited November 11, 2011 by 01silvapathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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