XSrcing Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 We were talking about standard transmission not automatics. I have replaced many duel clutch disk on heavy trucks but have never seen a duel disk clutch on a standard transmission on a car or light truck. If you have please give examples. James Many of the cars I posted in THIS thread run 2 or 3 disc clutches (the Ford had a 4 disc). Many companies make them including Exedy, who makes the factory Nissan clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piste Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Operator error?? B Somehow I KNEW that was coming! :-) But no....I do know how to use a clutch. Have owned a number of stick vehicles over the last 30 years without issue...including an old Bronco...3000ZX...69 Vette...Harley... Could be a fluke on the orig one....and maybe bad job done replacing the original one...who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Somehow I KNEW that was coming! :-) But no....I do know how to use a clutch. Have owned a number of stick vehicles over the last 30 years without issue...including an old Bronco...3000ZX...69 Vette...Harley... Could be a fluke on the orig one....and maybe bad job done replacing the original one...who knows. I would place bets on on warped or otherwise poor friction surface on the flywheel when a clutch went in. I've heard many short life stories about ppl not checking flywheels when puttting a new clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Many of the cars I posted in THIS thread run 2 or 3 disc clutches (the Ford had a 4 disc). Many companies make them including Exedy, who makes the factory Nissan clutches. I figured you were talking about some off the wall import that I never worked on. You said ford used 4 disk? What ford would you be referring to? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The only Ford in the entire thread. I believe it's the RS200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Exactly. It is some specialty 600+ BHP car... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSrcing Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 They make them for Honda Civics, as well. So it's not some super fantastical part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 They make them for Honda Civics, as well. So it's not some super fantastical part. My buddy's 740 WHP Talon TSI has one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piste Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I would place bets on on warped or otherwise poor friction surface on the flywheel when a clutch went in. I've heard many short life stories about ppl not checking flywheels when puttting a new clutch. Yeah...very well could be. I know when the current clutch went in the flywheel was resurfaced...not sure about the prior one that only lasted 50K miles. And on that note....what do folks believe to be the approximate lifespan of an OEM clutch? Now I KNOW that all depends on so many factors...but on average.....not beating on it...and someone who knows how to use it....what's a range of expected life? Say..140K to 160K miles? closer to 200K? 100K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Yeah...very well could be. I know when the current clutch went in the flywheel was resurfaced...not sure about the prior one that only lasted 50K miles. And on that note....what do folks believe to be the approximate lifespan of an OEM clutch? Now I KNOW that all depends on so many factors...but on average.....not beating on it...and someone who knows how to use it....what's a range of expected life? Say..140K to 160K miles? closer to 200K? 100K? My dad has a 2000 pathfinder 5 speed and it has 270k on the original clutch and it still shifts perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 The only Ford in the entire thread. I believe it's the RS200. There's a ford in there? I guess I didn't pay attention to cars I know I can't afford! I never saw a multiple disk clutch in anything but big trucks. I guess I'm just an old school mechanic. They always used the button type friction disk too. I hated changing them. I've seen big trucks go 500k on a clutch but most driver only use it to get going anyway. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 doesnt look like it posted....i'm going with a CF II...will be posting pix through this venture again...can't wait to see what it feels like...hopefully UPS delivers tomorrow b/c i have everything else...i cant wait to hear B's comments on this flywheel b/c i know its a lot worse than the one i posted about 3 years ago...it had some nice deep purples.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 *warms up comment generator* B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Bring'em on....got the truck across town...barely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 clutch is out right under 4 hrs of work...I was surprised to not see any hot spots on the flywheel...the last one i took off was nice and purple...there was a decent amount of clutch left on the flywheel side but the back side to the pressure plate was toast...several chunks missing and the pressure plate disk has some good hot spots on it...not really sure what's up with that also a HUGE concern is the pilot bushing fell out of the crank shaft when i pulled the trans...was tired i havent measured things but i'm curious as to what problems that can cause me in the future While under the truck I found lots more carnage from last weekend...so it looks like i'm working some tomorrow...then trying to finish up the clutch and then on sunday hopefully go to pull a part and buy some rear links as spares and replacements since I bent the drivers side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Clutch: flywheel: pressure plate: disk: Edited October 23, 2010 by unccpathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) That flywheel really needs some attention B4 that clutch goes in. Maybe even a new one. Edited October 23, 2010 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 your kidding me right? not to seem arrogant or anything but this is far beyond my first rodeo...I did do all the mechanical design for an electric vehicle that was completed in less than a year...I never have the flywheel resurfaced...it gets a new one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with a refaced flywheel?? Is it the same mentality some people have about turning rotors?? As a machinist, I don't see the problem, but I'm not a ME... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with a refaced flywheel?? Is it the same mentality some people have about turning rotors?? As a machinist, I don't see the problem, but I'm not a ME... B By that do you meant they are thinner and more prone to warping? That's the impression I am under. I would much rather everything new than resurfaced. I resurfaced my brake rotors on my first wd21 brake job and they warped in 2 months time. Though I am hard on the brakes. Also on our rodeo they replaced the clutch and "resurfaced the flywheel" but the clutch never felt right (chattered when engaged) and then they replaced it and it was fine. Edited October 23, 2010 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) your kidding me right? not to seem arrogant or anything but this is far beyond my first rodeo...I did do all the mechanical design for an electric vehicle that was completed in less than a year...I never have the flywheel resurfaced...it gets a new one... That's fine, glad to know your aware. Some ppl just don't know, they do all that work to put a new clutch in with a pitted or warped flywheel and blame it on a cheap clutch when it fails pre-maturely or cuases jerkyness & vibrations when partially engaged.(ignorance IS NOT bliss) Are you Gonna go with an OE type flywheel or try an aluminmum one and see if that keeps the heat down for longer life? Edited October 23, 2010 by MY1PATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 By that do you meant they are thinner and more prone to warping? That's the impression I am under. I would much rather everything new than resurfaced. I resurfaced my brake rotors on my first wd21 brake job and they warped in 2 months time. Though I am hard on the brakes. Also on our rodeo they replaced the clutch and "resurfaced the flywheel" but the clutch never felt right (chattered when engaged) and then they replaced it and it was fine. IMHO the 'thinner and more prone to warping' mentality is a joke fostered by those who don't work metal or do math. If a rotor is 20 mm thick and you remove .2mm to straighten it, you just removed 1% of the material. Ok, you do it to both sides and it's 2%. Big whoopie, that is only 2% of the contact surface, not the entire mass of the rotor so it matters even less. Even more so, the warping may come from stress relief from prolonged heating and the rotor will actually be more stable once remachined true again. Generally speaking, if you are warping rotors it is due to one or a combination of the following factors: poorly designed or inadequate braking system for the vehicle, poor quality rotors, faulty braking system (frozen calipers, air in the lines, etc) or poor driving/braking habits. New rotors are not necessarily better rotors and warped rotors are not necessarily the rotors fault. This may give a layman's insight... http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/80045/undercover_putting_brake_rotors_under_the_microscope.aspx In my experience, a chattering clutch usually occurs from contaminates on the contact surfaces or problems with the pressure/pressure plate. B Sorry to thread jack Unccp, but it is somewhat related. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 From the wear you described it sounds like your friction disk wasn't sliding on your input shaft. Make sure you don't have wear spots on the input shaft and put some never sieze on it when you go back together. I have never seen a clutch wear like that but then again I never worked on rock crawlers. The reason a hydraulic clutch doesn't feel right after resurfacing it is because most people don't shim the flywheel on the crank the amount that was taken off when it was resurfaced. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) I think I know what the wear is from on the clutch but i've been holding it in reserve...when i did the swap from the 95 to 87 i pulled the clutch to change the RMS and accidentally touched the disk with my fingers...i know you're not supposed to spray them with solvent and had a pretty good idea that it would fail prematurely...it lasted maybe 15K after that Generally speaking, if you are warping rotors it is due to one or a combination of the following factors: poorly designed or inadequate braking system for the vehicle, poor quality rotors, faulty braking system (frozen calipers, air in the lines, etc) or poor driving/braking habits. I agree...it's all about the grain structure the last flywheel i pulled i wouldnt have resurfaced b/c it was heat soaked and you could have probably turned the "brittle" sections off and may not have been warped but it wasnt worth the risk...the flywheel i just pulled i will probably sell or resurface to have for later Some ppl just don't know, they do all that work to put a new clutch in with a pitted or warped flywheel and blame it on a cheap clutch when it fails pre-maturely or cuases jerkyness & vibrations when partially engaged.(ignorance IS NOT bliss) Are you Gonna go with an OE type flywheel or try an aluminmum one and see if that keeps the heat down for longer life? i never got clutch chatter until i was driving it cross town adn i know that was the chunks coming off of the disk...going with an OEM flywheel...I don't see aluminum being required...maybe if i had a drag car that I wanted to lighten up but still what's 20 lbs? (obviously i'm not in it for the weight) and no ignorance isnt bliss...i had an issue this week where everyone thought my drivelines were bad but i knew the calcs were right and i had approvals in hand but knew there was an issue by a different vendor...once they provided new software all of the issues were resolved...but i did realize i have some design flaws that arent bad but i want them redone so today i spent 4 hrs at the office redesigning a bunch of stuff and I cant wait until we get the new parts in 2-4 weeks to install them and see what improvements or problems it causes but it should increase product longevity by 50-75% anywho...we goofed off today and drank beer, watched football and grilled out...got the transmission in...easiest install so far but i figured out a few tricks that were helpful...tomorrow we're going shopping at the JY 1.5 hrs away to hopefully get all the parts to fix my carnage then come back and get the tranny bolted in and the drivelines up and the tbars in replace the clutch master and slave and then go for a test drive...then i'm going to be driving about 100-150 miles a night after work to get the cltuch wore in to go wheeling next weekend Edited October 24, 2010 by unccpathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted October 27, 2010 Author Share Posted October 27, 2010 so far i like it...still not as stiff as i want it but it is grabby but i think she'll be able to be slipped...we shall see after the break in...but it looks promising...after I get to do some beating on it we'll see what i have to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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