4xKory Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Damn murpheys law! So I fixed my dash lights, cruise control, door locks, interlock switch, and got everything running smoothly and had the biggest grin on my face! Until my gf got off work and I took her out for a test drive to show my accomplishments. It was running fine until I went up a hill and I heard some very loud ticking, so I stopped and popped the hood. *listen* Yup pretty sure its the valves smackin. So I shut it off and got it towed back to her parents house where I was workin on it. Im thinking the timing belt is on its last limbs or something. I was wondering if one of you local washingtonians could help me diagnose it and possibly help me with a rebuild when it comes time (when I get the funds together). I know I barely know you all yet, but I can really say I feel like Ive found my home in the world of Pathfinders on NPORA and I Will never give up on it. Most cars I would just sell it in this shape and get another, but this truck is my dream and Ill do whatever it takes to get it to get it back up and running strong. So I ask again please, if any of you could help me out around here I would owe a lifetime of friendship, and of course a few beers too. This pathy is just way too sweet to turn into a rust bucket... I cant let that happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I have no idea if this will make it worse or not but I would try to line up the timing marks (rotate engine by hand! Don't use the starter) and see if the belt has slipped...Also when it started ticking did it lose a lot of power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 I have no idea if this will make it worse or not but I would try to line up the timing marks (rotate engine by hand! Don't use the starter) and see if the belt has slipped...Also when it started ticking did it lose a lot of power? yeah it did, it sputtered and almost died, then a few seconds later went back to almost normal. and then again happened. Ill have to tow it home this weekend and work on it and see about the timing stuff, but ive never gotten into a motor that deep before so I just dont want to screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavefromOZ Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Spend the time reading on here first and get a FSM, that will help. Then just take your time, one step at a time, making sure you dont skip anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Spend the time reading on here first and get a FSM, that will help. Then just take your time, one step at a time, making sure you dont skip anything. Yeah I have been reading up on timing belt changes. I guess if I get to a point where I have any questions I will just stop and ask before moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytrosfinder Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Talk to Kingman... He is in washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I would offer but I'm 3 hours away. Almost all of the members on here from Washington are right up around that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 How much mechanical skill do you have? Do you have a garage or good place to work on it? Do you have a fair selection of tools? Depending on those answers, we may be able to walk you through this without too much trouble... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Well that is kind of my dilemma. I live at some appartments so I dont have a garage to work in. I do have some tools but from looking at the process of the timing belt change, and other tight spots I will have to get a few extras for special jobs. I dont even think I have a decent jack anymore from when I moved down here from up north in Bellingham/Blaine area. So you could basically say Im in over my head at this point. <---me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The only "room" you'll need is the space of the truck and a few feet in front for maneuverability around the engine. I tore the front of my engine down to inspect things and that only required the basic tools and it really didn't take that long. It's all nuts and bolts man, it'll go back in the same way it came out so long as you're careful and take your time. To be honest I was pretty concerned for myself when I looked at my engine knowing I needed to tear into it, but once I got going it was really fun and extremely easy. This bolt goes here, that one goes there...pretty soon you're done. The most important thing is to make sure you are 100% certain the belt is lined up properly. If you find that the belt slipped a tooth or something on you, then I would be worried about bent valves and pitted pistons because you said you heard tapping and lost power. Just some food for thought: If you do have internal engine damage, someone I know that lives in Vancouver by me has a set of cams, valves, and valve guides with only 10,000 miles on them for $50. I've seen them myself and they are in perfect condition. He removed them when he had his Pathfinder heads resurfaced and European cams from Nismo installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I can't say what happened from your description but if it would have bent valves it would not run at all. If you never changed the timing belt you do need to check that first. A stretched timing belt will let the cams go out of time and run like crap. Mine was showing 35psi of compression on one cylinder before I changed the belt, it was stretched so bad it was slapping the cover. to my defense I bought it like this I would never have let it get that bad. Make sure you read the tutorial very well and pay close attention when you are doing it. Maybe even print them out and have them with you when you work on it. A person that does not know what they are doing can screw thing up really bad. But with the knowledge on this forum anyone that can follow directions can do it. You cant even get info this good from shop manuals, the pictures make all the difference. Hell we are guys we don't read we like to look at pictures. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Well that is kind of my dilemma. I live at some appartments so I dont have a garage to work in. I do have some tools but from looking at the process of the timing belt change, and other tight spots I will have to get a few extras for special jobs. I dont even think I have a decent jack anymore from when I moved down here from up north in Bellingham/Blaine area. So you could basically say Im in over my head at this point. <---me lol A decent covered spot is required, preferably in a garage. You don't want to do this in the cold and rain, especially the first time and it may take a few days if you run into a snag. A floor jack is not necessary but an impact gun is handy for the crank bolt. Other than that, it is all wrenches, sockets and screw drivers. Oh, a torque wrench should be used to assemble. Do you have a buddy who's garage you can borrow for a few days? I did this years ago when I had to replace a clutch. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowser Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) If you're worried about whether or not you can handle it, Don't worry yourself. When I did my Timing belt all by myself, I had very little knowledge of engines and I had never done anything like this before. All I knew is that the closest Nissan Dealer was an Hour and a Half away and that shop wanted about $800-900 CAD to change it. I was sold on doing it myself. As stated, as long as your careful, do a lot of reading, and go step by step. It's highly recommended though to take pictures on your camera in a step by step approach so you can see later how things are supposed to look like when you're putting things back together. A few things you may want to consider if your going to tackle it all by yourself is usually if its time to change a Timing belt, Your waterpump, which doesn't seem to fail on people often, I was told is good for about 100,000-120,000kms. Many on here Have the original in their engine with FAR more kms then that though. Regardless, While everything's teared down it's something to consider so you dont have to tear it all down again. The Cam and Crankshaft seals are another thing you could think about changing. since again, its already ripped down. The thermostat can be swapped out at this time though so perhaps checking it in a pot and boiling the water and see if it opens when its supposed to would be a good idea. There was a thread on here not too long ago about what the correct temperature our Engines should be running at and Without looking it up I can't honestly remember at this time. Someone else can chime in for that. so the short version of things to also consider are. -waterpump -cam seals -crank seals -thermostat In my opinion. Only cause its a pain in the ass to have to replace any of those down the road before your next timing belt change. A floor jack is not necessary but an impact gun is handy for the crank bolt. I didn't have Air tools either and you can get around the Crank bolt issue using a Large Wrench that fits the Crank bolt, and rest the other end of it up against the Frame. Then when your ready to take it off, take the fuse out for the ignition so the engine wont fire up, and just bump your key in the ignition. The force from the engine turning from the starter should be enough to loosen the crank bolt. Also, make sure you have the wrench on the correct side of the frame so its not gonna Fly around to the other side of the vehicle hahaha. <--- No this didn't happen to me but before i hit the ignition I thought about it a sec. Edited January 19, 2010 by Dowser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Just some food for thought: If you do have internal engine damage, someone I know that lives in Vancouver by me has a set of cams, valves, and valve guides with only 10,000 miles on them for $50. I've seen them myself and they are in perfect condition. He removed them when he had his Pathfinder heads resurfaced and European cams from Nismo installed. Ill be sending you a pm- Ill take them regardless and put at least the new valves in. Mine was showing 35psi of compression on one cylinder before I changed the belt, it was stretched so bad it was slapping the cover. to my defense I bought it like this I would never have let it get that bad. You cant even get info this good from shop manuals, the pictures make all the difference. Hell we are guys we don't read we like to look at pictures. James Is there somewhere I can get it checked for cheap, or maybe borrow a comp checker? lol x2 on the needing pictures! A decent covered spot is required, preferably in a garage. You don't want to do this in the cold and rain. Do you have a buddy who's garage you can borrow for a few days? I did this years ago when I had to replace a clutch. B Unfortunately no I dont have really any friends other then my gf around here. So I may be stuck doing it in the cold and rain... so the short version of things to also consider are. -waterpump -cam seals -crank seals -thermostat In my opinion. Only cause its a pain in the ass to have to replace any of those down the road before your next timing belt change. I didn't have Air tools either and you can get around the Crank bolt issue using a Large Wrench that fits the Crank bolt, and rest the other end of it up against the Frame. Then when your ready to take it off, take the fuse out for the ignition so the engine wont fire up, and just bump your key in the ignition. The force from the engine turning from the starter should be enough to loosen the crank bolt. Also, make sure you have the wrench on the correct side of the frame so its not gonna Fly around to the other side of the vehicle hahaha. <--- No this didn't happen to me but before i hit the ignition I thought about it a sec. Ill definitely be changing all of those above. I never do anything half assed so I will make sure I do everything correctly and as much as possible so that I get the maximum miles out of my engine and this job. Thank you all so much for the input and taking the time to respond. Im convinced I can do it myself and you all have inspired me 10 fold. Once I get it towed back to my apartments this weekend Ill start tearing it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Is there somewhere I can get it checked for cheap, or maybe borrow a comp checker? Ill definitely be changing all of those above. I never do anything half assed so I will make sure I do everything correctly and as much as possible so that I get the maximum miles out of my engine and this job. Most auto part houses will loan you tools. You put a deposit with a credit card, and when you bring back the tool they credit your card back. I know auto zone does this around here. I agree with changing all of these things when you tear it down but the oil seals aren't really a beginner job. What I usually do is drill a small hole in the face of the seal and then screw a screw in to it and pull on it with pliers to get the seal out. Just be careful that the drill bit doesn't jump and hit the cam. Then to put the new one in you will need a large socket or anything round the size of the seal but preferably slightly larger that will also fit over the cam. Just drive the seal flush with the head surface not deeper than that. Good luck you will enjoy it. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Most auto part houses will loan you tools. You put a deposit with a credit card, and when you bring back the tool they credit your card back. I know auto zone does this around here. I agree with changing all of these things when you tear it down but the oil seals aren't really a beginner job. What I usually do is drill a small hole in the face of the seal and then screw a screw in to it and pull on it with pliers to get the seal out. Just be careful that the drill bit doesn't jump and hit the cam. Then to put the new one in you will need a large socket or anything round the size of the seal but preferably slightly larger that will also fit over the cam. Just drive the seal flush with the head surface not deeper than that. Good luck you will enjoy it. James Thanks james I didnt know I could rent tools like that! The seals do sound like quite the pain. I guess Ill just check them and if they are ok then Ill leave them, if they look even slightly bad Ill replace them. Second thought, I dont wanna go back in there for those, maybe Ill just do them anyways. Guess Ill know when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Before you tear into everything, you might want to try a quick check. -Pull your #1 spark plug out. -Rotate the crank by hand until the #1 piston is at top dead center (TDC). To check for TDC, Put your thumb over the spark plug hole and turn the crank clockwise (CW). When you feel air pushing your thumb off the hole, you're on the compression stroke and the piston is traveling up. Now carefully place a straw or a pencil (nothing that would scratch the piston) into the spark plug hole and use it to measure when the piston is at its highest point (TDC). Do not drop your measuring device into the cylinder. If you do, you'll either have to remove the cylinder head or turn the truck upside down and shake it until it falls out the plug hole. -Once you've determined TDC, remove your distributor cap and see where the rotor (the piece in the middle that spins) is pointing. It should be pointing pretty much directly at the contact that corresponds to the #1 plug wire. If its way off, check that you did everything correctly. If its a little off, your belt might have jumped a tooth. This isn't a thorough check. It won't tell you if everything is OK with your belt timing, but it should show you quick if something is wrong. Edited January 20, 2010 by jj big shoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Before you tear into everything, you might want to try a quick check. -Pull your #1 spark plug out. -Rotate the crank by hand until the #1 piston is at top dead center (TDC). To check for TDC, Put your thumb over the spark plug hole and turn the crank clockwise (CW). When you feel air pushing your thumb off the hole, you're on the compression stroke and the piston is traveling up. Now carefully place a straw or a pencil (nothing that would scratch the piston) into the spark plug hole and use it to measure when the piston is at its highest point (TDC). Do not drop your measuring device into the cylinder. If you do, you'll either have to remove the cylinder head or turn the truck upside down and shake it until it falls out the plug hole. -Once you've determined TDC, remove your distributor cap and see where the rotor (the piece in the middle that spins) is pointing. It should be pointing pretty much directly at the contact that corresponds to the #1 plug wire. If its way off, check that you did everything correctly. If its a little off, your belt might have jumped a tooth. This isn't a thorough check. It won't tell you if everything is OK with your belt timing, but it should show you quick if something is wrong. Thanks JJ that is a GREAT tip. It will give me a little heads up before I dig into it, it may be another problem other then what I think so this will help me diagnose it further. I think that should be pinned up in the Mechanics tips or how to's. Really great tip. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I want to point one thing out here that somewhat leans me away from this being a bad timing belt/crushed valves issue. yeah it did, it sputtered and almost died, then a few seconds later went back to almost normal. and then again happened. If your timing belt slipped a tooth and/or you smacked some valves, I don't see a way the engine would run normally for a while. I just wanted to point that out because it wouldn't be fair to you to buy those parts I offered and Tim agreed to sell if the problem is something different entirely. Basically you'd be stuck with a good engine and a set of cams, lifters, valves, and guides with no where to put them, unless your intention is to have them installed "just because." If you really do want them then that's fine, and I would suggest looking into having your heads machined to factory spec at the same time the set of parts goes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 I want to point one thing out here that somewhat leans me away from this being a bad timing belt/crushed valves issue. If your timing belt slipped a tooth and/or you smacked some valves, I don't see a way the engine would run normally for a while. I just wanted to point that out because it wouldn't be fair to you to buy those parts I offered and Tim agreed to sell if the problem is something different entirely. Basically you'd be stuck with a good engine and a set of cams, lifters, valves, and guides with no where to put them, unless your intention is to have them installed "just because." If you really do want them then that's fine, and I would suggest looking into having your heads machined to factory spec at the same time the set of parts goes in. That is a very good point. Im not an engine mechanic, but it sounded like the vavles smackin to me. Doesnt mean they are bad, but to me it seemed like it was very close to becoming that way. Do you have any idea as to what that might have been? Any input at all is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 On a side note, it does have 95k on it. So its time to do the timing belt anyways. I highly doubt the previous owners have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 LOL The timing belt change interval for that year is every 60k miles or 4(5?) years so you could possibly be 30k miles and 15 years overdue to have it replaced. The other side is it could have been done 20k and 2 years ago. Ask the POs... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 LOL The timing belt change interval for that year is every 60k miles or 4(5?) years so you could possibly be 30k miles and 15 years overdue to have it replaced. The other side is it could have been done 20k and 2 years ago. Ask the POs... B So basically I wont be able to do that because it was auctioned off at a police repo. I doubt they did anything to it lol. I wont know unless I dig in there and if thats the case I might as well replace a few things. I guess thats the way I see it. If fixing the timing belt and water pump and seals doesnt solve my problem, Im one step closer right? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Ok, I forgot that part. Yep, that's the safe way to do it, and the right way if you plan to keep it for a while... : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4xKory Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Ok, I forgot that part. Yep, that's the safe way to do it, and the right way if you plan to keep it for a while... : Oh I love my baby, my gf gets jealous quite often! Edited January 21, 2010 by 4xKory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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