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What determines redline?


Kingman
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Like on my step mom's Sportage V6, it shifts out of first under full throttle at 6200 rpm with a tach max at 8000 rpm. My dad's F150 5.4L shifts out of first at 5400 rpm with the tach max at 6000 rpm. How come a Pathfinder won't seem to rev over 4700 and it has an 8000 rpm max?

 

What determines how far an engine can rev? Timing? Valves? Cam?

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My Pathy will rev to where ever I want, but the red line is around 6K, not 8k.

 

Sounds like your timing is off (or something effecting the timing). That's a sure way to have a motor flatten out.

 

Yes, it is the design/materials of the engine components, bore and stroke, valve train can be a limiting factor, etc.

Simply said, you have an old truck that isn't tuned very well; stay away from redline.

 

B

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Last time I checked my timing was at 12 degrees. I'll have to check again next time I go to my mom's and get a timing light on it. And by max I meant the highest number on the tach. In neutral it revs fine to redline, but in gear it just won't pick up past 4700. It just gets there and refuses to go any faster or rev any higher. This is with manual control and not letting it shift by its self.

I read somethind about advancing the timing to 15 degrees?

 

I want to rebuild the top end some time, have the heads done and replace the lifters as well as install european cams.

 

Also, at around 4700 rpm it sort of feels like it's sputtering a little and not running right. If you say timing, could my belt have slipped a tooth? It's almost new though...

Edited by Kingman
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Always go by the redline on the tach, not highest reading the gauge goes to. Are you sure your dad didn't put a governor on your truck?? :D

 

Yes, you set the base timing, but the ecu advances/retards it from there according to engine conditions. If you have poor sensors, vacuum leaks, clogged valves, etc this will make the ecu react to conditions that don't actually exist, hence spluttering, RPM flattening out, etc. That's what I mean when I said it isn't tuned very well. I don't know the TBI system well enough to recommend what to test/examine, but I believe there is a section in the manuals for that.

 

B

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Always go by the redline on the tach, not highest reading the gauge goes to. Are you sure your dad didn't put a governor on your truck?? :D

 

Yes, you set the base timing, but the ecu advances/retards it from there according to engine conditions. If you have poor sensors, vacuum leaks, clogged valves, etc this will make the ecu react to conditions that don't actually exist, hence spluttering, RPM flattening out, etc. That's what I mean when I said it isn't tuned very well. I don't know the TBI system well enough to recommend what to test/examine, but I believe there is a section in the manuals for that.

 

B

I just think it's weird that in so many other vehicles, the rpms use most of the tach. On mine, what's the point in having an 8k max if it won't rev past 5k.

 

Lol I hope he didn't...he'd be getting a good :stickwack:

 

I lost my manual, damnit! :(

Which sensors? There's no vacuum leaks, I fixed all the ones that were, and valves? As in internal exhaust and fuel valves? Or EGR valves and what not?

Edited by Kingman
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what's the point in having an 8k max if it won't rev past 5k.

That same gauge may have been used in several different models so all they need is a different face plate for different red line limits. This saves $ and keeps the cost of the vehicle lower; I have no problem with this.

 

I lost my manual, damnit!

Unlose one on ebay?? :shrug:

 

As in internal exhaust and fuel valves? Or EGR valves and what not?

Valves in the head could affect things as they wear and don't seal as well, but mainly all the valves, diaphrams, on/around the motor.

 

Which sensors?
I don't know the TBI system well enough to recommend what to test/examine

Sorry Bud, but I can't walk you through what/how to test on the internet about a system I have never worked on.

 

B

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I don't know the TBI system well enough to recommend what to test/examine

 

I read right over the "don't" in that sentence... :rolleyes:

 

That same gauge may have been used in several different models so all they need is a different face plate for different red line limits. This saves $ and keeps the cost of the vehicle lower; I have no problem with this.

 

Oh yeah, true. Makes sense.

 

Unlose one on ebay?? :shrug:

 

Getting there...

 

Valves in the head could affect things as they wear and don't seal as well, but mainly all the valves, diaphrams, on/around the motor.

 

Hmmmm...

 

Oh, and I took a look at my "new" O2 sensor, and when I took it out my truck ran exactly the same. Shouldn't it run different? The top was also white powdery looking...

Edited by Kingman
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My truck can rev as high as 6750 rpm before it self-limits. Doesn't matter if I'm in gear or not, it WILL NOT go past 6750 rpm. Which is probably a good thing as that's just a hair before the solid red at 7k rpm :P Granted, I'm a newer 1990 MPFI engine... but eh.

 

And trust me - she sounds mighty fearsome at 6000+ rpm... and kicks like a damn mule too XD

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have you read any codes from the ecu? it's probably a good place to start. just my $.02

 

Still clear.

 

The problem has been around for a long while, just getting around to mentioning it. Like a lot of things...

Edited by Kingman
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when under load mine also sputters just a little @ 4700rpm but smooths out by 5k. I just figured its the engine telling you its near its limit.

I run my timing on my tbi @ 15 deg instead of 12 I also know that the mpfi vg30e is sopposed to run @ 15. I notice better fuel economy when running 15 deg but nothing else feels differant.

 

as far as redline, like everyone else said, its the design of the engine. in the case of the vg30 there is risk of the pistons coming up faster than the valves can close @ above 6600rpm. so the ecu prevents you from doing so.

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My truck can rev as high as 6750 rpm before it self-limits. Doesn't matter if I'm in gear or not, it WILL NOT go past 6750 rpm. Which is probably a good thing as that's just a hair before the solid red at 7k rpm :P Granted, I'm a newer 1990 MPFI engine... but eh.

 

And trust me - she sounds mighty fearsome at 6000+ rpm... and kicks like a damn mule too XD

 

Sounds much better with no muffler at 5000 rpm in park. At idle and there are the best sounds a vg30 can make.

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when under load mine also sputters just a little @ 4700rpm but smooths out by 5k. I just figured its the engine telling you its near its limit.

I run my timing on my tbi @ 15 deg instead of 12 I also know that the mpfi vg30e is sopposed to run @ 15. I notice better fuel economy when running 15 deg but nothing else feels differant.

 

as far as redline, like everyone else said, its the design of the engine. in the case of the vg30 there is risk of the pistons coming up faster than the valves can close @ above 6600rpm. so the ecu prevents you from doing so.

sounds like your cam timing is retarded by one tooth or 5°

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its stock i didnt load anything. I was just driving to see if the limiter would kick in if there was one like 2 years ago and it just kept going up and up once it got to 7 i quit lol. I didnt want any valve float to happen. I know it went to 7k becasue i have a digital dash and it was clear as day. ANd for thr 6500k ish in my old pathfinder 93 was seeing if it could go as high as the z since it had the same motor but guess not.

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Not for long... ;)

 

B

 

Oh, trust me - I rarely go near that high, and I don't hold it there long. Mostly, it's a certain on ramp we have in Harrisburg merging onto I-83... the damn thing has a stop sign at the end of the turn to face the right direction, and the "run on" space is less than 50 foot long before it's an off-ramp again (as in, you ahve about 50 feet to get up to speed before someone hits you in the ass)

 

terrible, terrible ramp... I avoid it like the plague but sometimes I don't have a choice and I have to gun her... she always seems a little peppier after that the rest of the day XD

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*nods* Likewise - I try my best to stay under 4k and I like to nearly idle along at 1500-2000 rpm, but when you need power, you need power - at high rpm's the VG30E can certainly deliver :D

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My 88 shifts under full throttle at around 6000.

 

I'v only ever once hit the rev limiter, when I had the truck in first by accident.

 

Hmmmm...there really be something out of wack on mine...

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