zonianbrat Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 This has been a very informative thread! Yet I am the only one here who actually drives an american made car!! LOL Sorry for that I just had to throw that in there!! Thanks for all the infor everybody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) I do understand the dynamics, I just don't agree with your point. Laws, and competition have done just as much, if not more, for non-unionized salaries than the union has. If the union didn't exist today, salaries would be almost as high, only, folks would be working for them. I agree that Europeans and Asians typically treat their employeess better, but this is because they get more in return. These folks are well taken care of because they work hard. They work hard because they're treated well, and because if they don't, they will be out on their ass, replaced by someone willing to work hard. Understood. Different perspective. The jobs i've held, the harder i work, the more they want me to work. The better i do, the @!*%tier the jobs i'm given. When i try to offer a more efficient way to do something, i'm looked at with suspicion, when i request a safety item or training i'm supposed to have under OSHA laws, i'm ostracized. I watched my pay dwindle and prices rise. My taxes increase and my political representation sells me out. when i get hurt trying to do what they ask, they lay me off. I've got a herniated disk in my back and 3 fused discs in my neck. I've got Multiple sclerosis from god only knows what, and my health insurance premiums have doubled, and my benefits cut in half. To top it all off, i have to watch as my peers and brothers fight and bicker amongst themselves while we sell our souls one day at a time for less and less every day while our kids get stupider and our parents get drugged. I like the sounds of your utopia better, it's just i don't have any faith left. I am living the decay. I am watching the slide. I have supported my perspective with relative information. I can do no more. I don't have the talent or the resources. I'm a man yelling fire in a burning world lol. Edited December 19, 2008 by PDCCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Understood. Different perspective. The jobs i've held, the harder i work, the more they want me to work. The better i do, the @!*%tier the jobs i'm given. When i try to offer a more efficient way to do something, i'm looked at with suspicion, when i request a safety item or training i'm supposed to have under OSHA laws, i'm ostracized. I watched my pay dwindle and prices rise. My taxes increase and my political representation sells me out. when i get hurt trying to do what they ask, they lay me off. I've got a herniated disk in my back and 3 fused discs in my neck. I've got Multiple sclerosis from god only knows what, and my health insurance costs have doubled, and my benefits cut in half. To top it all off, i have to watch as my peers and brothers fight and bicker amongst themselves while we sell our souls one day at a time for less and less every day while our kids get stupider and our parents get drugged. I like the sounds of your utopia better, it's just i don't have any faith left. I am living the decay. I am watching the slide. I have supported my perspective with relative information. I can do no more. I don't have the talent or the resources. Exactly...and where do you live? The "utopia" you speak of is in the areas you specified in your previous argument. I'm not saying that the union hasn't done good things in the past. I just don't believe that at this point, they do much but protect those unwilling to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 This has been a very informative thread! Yet I am the only one here who actually drives an american made car!! LOL Sorry for that I just had to throw that in there!! Thanks for all the infor everybody! Nope, my DD is a Dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Understood. Different perspective. The jobs i've held, the harder i work, the more they want me to work. The better i do, the @!*%tier the jobs i'm given. When i try to offer a more efficient way to do something, i'm looked at with suspicion, when i request a safety item or training i'm supposed to have under OSHA laws, i'm ostracized. I watched my pay dwindle and prices rise. My taxes increase and my political representation sells me out. when i get hurt trying to do what they ask, they lay me off. I've got a herniated disk in my back and 3 fused discs in my neck. I've got Multiple sclerosis from god only knows what, and my health insurance premiums have doubled, and my benefits cut in half. To top it all off, i have to watch as my peers and brothers fight and bicker amongst themselves while we sell our souls one day at a time for less and less every day while our kids get stupider and our parents get drugged. I like the sounds of your utopia better, it's just i don't have any faith left. I am living the decay. I am watching the slide. I have supported my perspective with relative information. I can do no more. I don't have the talent or the resources. I'm a man yelling fire in a burning world lol. Not to be mean, but you got yourself in that mess. The thing about PPE is it only works if the end user utilizes it. You knew you needed it, and did the work with out it anyway. Bitch and moan about the employer all you want, but you didn't CYOA. I personally have refused to do a few jobs because the conditions were unsafe, let the employer get busted and fined once or twice for unsafe practices and they will either fold up or straighten up and fly right to avoid fines in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Yet I am the only one here who actually drives an american made car!! Not really, my Pathfinder is the first non-american vehicle to enter my entire family, and sadly it's been the one with the worst reliability and most problems, by far. Good news, Bush bailed out the Big 3. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=138226 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Good news, Bush bailed out the Big 3. Heh, yeah a loan that will never be repaid and we will see them close up in March rather than January without repaying that "loan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Heh, yeah a loan that will never be repaid and we will see them close up in March rather than January without repaying that "loan". Only if they fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Did anyone actually believe that they wouldnt get the money? The government and auto makers have been yankin each other for ever. Not that big on news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Only if they fail. I have no faith in them to succeed if you can't tell by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Did anyone actually believe that they wouldnt get the money? The government and auto makers have been yankin each other for ever. Not that big on news to me. I was a little concerned about it, yesterday Bush wasn't giving the vibes to make people think he was going to approve the money, saying "I haven't made up my mind yet, so you're assuming something that's gonna happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Bush has too much money tied up in oil to have the car companies fail. I think those "vibes" are just some of his killer acting skills.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28311743/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 And he called for elimination of a "jobs bank" program — negotiated by the UAW and the companies — under which laid-off workers receive unemployment benefits and supplemental pay from their companies for 48 weeks. If they remain laid off beyond that, they move to a jobs bank in which the company provides about 95 percent of their pay and benefits. Until the most recent contract, people could remain in the jobs bank for years. Early this month, the UAW agreed to suspend the program. I missed it when they announced it, but I can't believe they actually agreed to suspend that. Maybe UAW is actually in fight or flight mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 I missed it when they announced it, but I can't believe they actually agreed to suspend that. Maybe UAW is actually in fight or flight mode? Seems that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Not to be mean, but you got yourself in that mess. The thing about PPE is it only works if the end user utilizes it. You knew you needed it, and did the work with out it anyway. Bitch and moan about the employer all you want, but you didn't CYOA. I personally have refused to do a few jobs because the conditions were unsafe, let the employer get busted and fined once or twice for unsafe practices and they will either fold up or straighten up and fly right to avoid fines in the future. Good for you bud. Glad to hear you've never made a mistake lol. For the record, the majority of my long term medical issues were caused while i was in the infantry. PPE lol, ppe. In a utopia it would work so well. Your ability to make personal judgments and conclusions with such little information is fascinating. And who's fining the employer? Underfunded OSHA? That government agency you think should stay out of industries business?And what if you call DOL or osha and the company gets shut down? All your friends and coworkers are out of work. they're families don't eat. What if your boss has christmas cards with the governors family picture hanging on his wall "thanks for all the support". Haven't you noticed in your vast experience of rarely ever seeing an osha inspector until something really bad happens to someone?Go ahead, refuse to do the work tough guy, in my world, you start looking for more work right then. Things are not black and white bud, not cut and dry. Pragmatists kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I missed it when they announced it, but I can't believe they actually agreed to suspend that. Maybe UAW is actually in fight or flight mode? More half information.The job banks were created because to balance mismanagement, the auto manufacturers constantly hire and lay off, hire and lay off. It became a huge burden for state unemployment resources, so they made it less convenient for them to do that using tax payer funds to subsidize their business mistakes. I've known of people who were employees for over 15 years before they eventually had enough seniority to stay employed through the whole year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 And he called for elimination of a "jobs bank" program — negotiated by the UAW and the companies — under which laid-off workers receive unemployment benefits and supplemental pay from their companies for 48 weeks. If they remain laid off beyond that, they move to a jobs bank in which the company provides about 95 percent of their pay and benefits. Until the most recent contract, people could remain in the jobs bank for years. Early this month, the UAW agreed to suspend the program. See, this kind of thing is why I am against my tax $ (and they get a lot of it, trust me) being used to bail out companies that paid employees regardless if they were working or not. That's a load of crap! the auto manufacturers constantly hire and lay off, hire and lay off. See, the point is, if you don't like it or it screws up your finances, (news flash) find another farking job... Oh well, just another 17 billion pissed away... Thanks Bush, please do us the courtesy of dying immediately... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Thanks Bush, please do us the courtesy of dying immediately... B Ahha! Something we agree about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 LOL, I'll drink to that!! (4-8 years too late though) B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Good for you bud. Glad to hear you've never made a mistake lol. For the record, the majority of my long term medical issues were caused while i was in the infantry. PPE lol, ppe. In a utopia it would work so well. Your ability to make personal judgments and conclusions with such little information is fascinating. And who's fining the employer? Underfunded OSHA? That government agency you think should stay out of industries business?And what if you call DOL or osha and the company gets shut down? All your friends and coworkers are out of work. they're families don't eat. What if your boss has christmas cards with the governors family picture hanging on his wall "thanks for all the support". Haven't you noticed in your vast experience of rarely ever seeing an osha inspector until something really bad happens to someone?Go ahead, refuse to do the work tough guy, in my world, you start looking for more work right then. Things are not black and white bud, not cut and dry. Pragmatists kill me. For the bolded statment, same can be said for you. Actually, OHSA was on nearly every job I was on as a commercial carpenter (10years in that field), usually just random inspections. The companies I worked for were fined a couple times fo various reasons. I actually had an inspector drive up and try and bust me on something that I was able to justify as being safe (no fines). She was driving by our job on her way to another and saw us, we were in a 60' snorkle lift with out harnesses. Reason being we were working less than 6' over a scafolding (6' fall rule). Yeah, my coworkers families can't eat if my coworker dies either. Dunno what buisness you were in, but most of the work I was doing was in high places, not the situation to be lax on safety. Most fines are avoidable if the situation isn't a blatantly ignorant case, the one company I worked for was able to work with OHSA to figure out the proper fall protection on some jobs. One job that was in an odd location we ended up setting up something akin to a trappees net. So no one had harnesses (there was nothig to tie off to hence the net solution). Many companies have been shut down here, but there are enough others to take up the slack. There are 9 large Commercial General Contractors in town that I can name off the top of my head, and I'm sure more that have moved in or started up that I don't know, I know that for every major sub-contractor they use there are at least 15 companies here (I spent a year in the estimating department of one of the GCs putting bids together). Maybe the situation is different where you are, but like I said, ultimately you gotta CYOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonianbrat Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Nope, my DD is a Dodge. Yeah I thought about your van when I posted that reply, I guess I should have phrased it as I am the only one who has "bought" an american vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 My 1989 blue piece of sheit Chrysler minivan... *snort* Essentially, I agree; hurt today, good tomorrow... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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