Zibi Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 So I've got a questions...eventually (when the money makes its way into my truck and I've lifted it) I'd like to upgrade to 32" tires...while I've never experienced brake fade with my stock tires how well would the stock brakes work with the increased tire size? I seem to recall reading that XPLOR had to replace his rotors with a beefier set. Will my ABS still function properly with the increased tire size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 So I've got a questions...eventually (when the money makes its way into my truck and I've lifted it) I'd like to upgrade to 32" tires...while I've never experienced brake fade with my stock tires how well would the stock brakes work with the increased tire size? I seem to recall reading that XPLOR had to replace his rotors with a beefier set. Will my ABS still function properly with the increased tire size? Good question buddy, and an important one when modding a rig I've got 32" tires on my R50 and thus far the stock brakes have worked great. Granted they are new pads and rotors... I bought the rig in April and drove it over 2000 km from where I bought it back to my home city and the brakes never failed me once in any way. In fact, in comparison to a stock R50 (my buddy also has a '98 rolling on the stock wheels and tires), I find my truck handles the stops much better, which is due to better quality rubbers which of course are in contact with the ground For argument's sake, you could beef up the fronts. That's always a good application on any vehicle anyway. But you could do that regardless of whether or not you wanted to throw on some larger rubbers. As for the ABS, I'll have to get back to you on that. In the rain it seems to work just fine but I have yet to put that feature to any real use. Once winter rolls in I'll have much more to tell about it. I think with the right tires though, the ABS would probably end up having to work less in those ulgy situations where stock tires might make the brakes and ABS work harder than they should. I guess what I'm saying is tire quality is as equally important as brake quality when it comes to stopping to your rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) I noticed tmorgan's wicked R50 has, among other badass things, a rear axle with... wait for it... disc brakes! I wonder where that came from and if that swap would be possible without the whole SAS application. Edited September 30, 2008 by tekazgtr1984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) I noticed tmorgan's wicked R50 has, among other badass things, a rear axle with... wait for it... disc brakes! I wonder where that came from and if that swap would be possible without the whole SAS application. Axle swaps are always possible. Like many other things, what's "possible" boils down to either time or money or both. Sure, you can swap in a similarly-sized donor axle that has disc brakes, but is it worth it? That's up to you, and you alone. It's your money. Edited October 1, 2008 by XPLORx4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Axle swaps are always possible. Like many other things, what's "possible" boils down to either time or money or both. Sure, you can swap in a similarly-sized donor axle that has disc brakes, but is it worth it? That's up to you, and you alone. It's your money. Oh for sure, money is always an issue... My Pathy isn't the only thing to which that applies. But for that axle swap I wonder which would fit. A Nissan donor would be ideal... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Oh for sure, money is always an issue... My Pathy isn't the only thing to which that applies.But for that axle swap I wonder which would fit. A Nissan donor would be ideal... right? Not necessarily, because finding an H233B rear axle with disc brakes could be hard to find. I would choose an axle that has the best diff and gears first, and which has disc brakes already. Ford 9" or Dana60 come to mind, but I'm no expert on axle swaps. I've done virtually no research on what would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) Not necessarily, because finding an H233B rear axle with disc brakes could be hard to find. I would choose an axle that has the best diff and gears first, and which has disc brakes already. Ford 9" or Dana60 come to mind, but I'm no expert on axle swaps. I've done virtually no research on what would fit. This is all new to me as well. Thanks for the info though Edited October 1, 2008 by tekazgtr1984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzNutz Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm curious, rear disks would be cool of course, but wouldn't upgrading the front brakes be a better solution. Like in my '91 XE it has antilock rear drums, and disks in front, but the disks up front are crap. Not even antilock, they worry me when it rains let alone snow. Is there a cost effective way to make them antilock and/or increase the size of the rotor and calipers?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm curious, rear disks would be cool of course, but wouldn't upgrading the front brakes be a better solution. Like in my '91 XE it has antilock rear drums, and disks in front, but the disks up front are crap. Not even antilock, they worry me when it rains let alone snow. Is there a cost effective way to make them antilock and/or increase the size of the rotor and calipers?? Not sure about the ABS on your WD21, but of course bigger discs (especially slotted and cross-drilled) with heavy duty calipers and pads would help. Braking is always improved when the front discs are modified for higher performance apps. Of course, with bigger tires moving you it's always a good idea to consider beefing up what's stopping those tires. In any case, I'm surprised your Pathy's discs are not ABS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97pathfinder4x4 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 does the r50 have abs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 does the r50 have abs? As far as I know yes. When I safetied mine, I had to get a new front driver's side ABS sensor. I'm not sure if it's standard, but mine's the XE so I'd assume anything up has it too...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin517 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Maybe it was the brake setup i had. cheap "zimmerman" rotors with federal-mogul thermoquiet pads. I felt serious brake fade not only in the mountains, but even in emergency situations on freeways in the city. And I love engine braking. i switched to brembo front rotors with hawk HPS pads, and had the rear drums machined (the drums had grooves scorched into them) and new shoes and it made a huge difference im about to change brake fluid, what brake fluid do you all recommend? Zimmerman rotors are fine. Anything "quiet" or "low dust" is going to sacrifice some performance. I ran AXXIS metal master pads and they were kinda loud, semi dusty and ate my rotors, but man... they slowed my A4 from 150 mph pretty damn well. As for brake fluid, motul 600 is pretty badass, ut I think it might be DOT 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 As for brake fluid, motul 600 is pretty badass, ut I think it might be DOT 5? DOT 5?! That's like racing stuff! But Motul stuff is top notch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin517 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 DOT 5?! That's like racing stuff! But Motul stuff is top notch yeah, thats what my audi called for. its not a big deal, you just have to change it every 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexrex20 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 DOT5 is not compatible with our braking systems. use only DOT3 or DOT4, or even DOT5.1, but not DOT5! back to the oversize tire issue with ABS... ABS computers use wheel speed sensors to determine if and when to start pulsing the brakes. if you up- or downsize your tire diameter, you effectively decrease/increase the actual vehicle speed in comparison to the wheel speed that the ABS is receiving. there will be a nominal change in when the ABS engages, because it's all based on a percentage speed differential among the wheels. if you upsize your tire OD, it will take more lockup (larger wheel speed differential) before the ABS actually engages; and vice versa. the difference is, like i said nominal. the real issue is when you start putting different size tires from axle to axle. i don't see why we'd do it on 4x4s, but some 2WDs like the stance. in such a case, the ABS will be extremely sensitive because even without tire lockup, the computer is already seeing a speed differential among the wheels, and will thus engage much quicker (sometimes even before any lockup occurs). regardless, my ABS-equipped Pathy has nonfunctional ABS, lol. on the last road trip, my LR wheel bearing went bad at Yellowstone Nat'l Park. Thankfully they have an auto shop within the park. they were able to replace my wheel bearing in a few days, but because i drove it a one or two miles back to the shop, with the bad bearing, it had welded itself and the ABS reluctor ring onto the axle. to remove the bearing, the reluctor ring had to be cut off. to wait for the Nissan-specific part would be another week, so we just had them install the axle without it, thus disabling my entire ABS system. it's been 2 years since then and i've really no intention of getting it fixed. my brakes aren't powerful enough to lockup the 31in tires anyway, unless it's wet out. it almost makes me drive more careful. that, and ABS doesn't do crap in the sand/mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 ...that, and ABS doesn't do crap in the sand/mud. Indeed, ABS is useless in sand/mud. But it comes in mighty handy on black ice and in nasty blizzards. Winter and ABS tend to go hand in hand. From a wheeling point of view, it serves no purpose. Purely a safety feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexrex20 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 what is this ice/snow you speak of? <-- from south texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunAway Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Do you have a lift? I wonder how many people lift trucks with the load sensing valve and don't bother correcting for that as well. That's got to give poorer braking performance on a lifted truck, no? If the truck thinks the rear end is way up in the air all the time and cuts braking power to the rear brakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissandoms47 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Just FYI, the VQ powered r50s dont have an LSV in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 what is this ice/snow you speak of? <-- from south texas LOL... Come and visit and I can show you. You'll never want to come back though. Do you have a lift? I wonder how many people lift trucks with the load sensing valve and don't bother correcting for that as well. That's got to give poorer braking performance on a lifted truck, no? If the truck thinks the rear end is way up in the air all the time and cuts braking power to the rear brakes... I'm not sure what the correction would entail but my braking feels just the same as stock specs... How/where would I check the LSV to verify? Just FYI, the VQ powered r50s dont have an LSV in the rear. So... that means the VG powered have them. I have no idea what this is/where to find it. News to me ya'll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift220 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Any doubting that rear discs are worth it on R50 Pathfinders obviously hasn't felt the difference from a stock drum to rear disc conversion! Even if 2/3 of the braking power from comes the front, if the rear isn't using up that 1/3 of "power" it has, then an upgrade will have a significant advantage. And especially more if you have a load on the rear end. I'll give you one example. This is the rear disc conversion on the rear of my little hotrod Sonoma. These are 12" rear disc brakes from an LS1 Camaro. The difference in braking was phenomenal from the stock drums. I pulled over 4000 lbs on the highway without a single problem and no brake fade. Probably one of the best upgrades i've done to the truck. And this is a situation where the braking is much more front biased compared to a Pathfinder. Pulling my little boat (~1000 lbs maybe) with the pathfinder made braking a little scary on the highway sometimes. So IMO is it worth it on a Pathfinder as long as its a big upgrade (not stock WD21 discs) and something is available. What do newer R50's have? Or even R51's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitemedoughboy.com Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Any doubting that rear discs are worth it on R50 Pathfinders obviously hasn't felt the difference from a stock drum to rear disc conversion! Even if 2/3 of the braking power from comes the front, if the rear isn't using up that 1/3 of "power" it has, then an upgrade will have a significant advantage. And especially more if you have a load on the rear end. I'll give you one example. This is the rear disc conversion on the rear of my little hotrod Sonoma. These are 12" rear disc brakes from an LS1 Camaro. The difference in braking was phenomenal from the stock drums. I pulled over 4000 lbs on the highway without a single problem and no brake fade. Probably one of the best upgrades i've done to the truck. And this is a situation where the braking is much more front biased compared to a Pathfinder. Pulling my little boat (~1000 lbs maybe) with the pathfinder made braking a little scary on the highway sometimes. So IMO is it worth it on a Pathfinder as long as its a big upgrade (not stock WD21 discs) and something is available. What do newer R50's have? Or even R51's? those there bolt holes in the rotor look to be a bit loose.... one thing to think about with drum brakes is they don't hold for @!*% in reverse. ever left the e-brake on and backed up? you don't notice it until you try to go forward.... now what happens when your on a steep nasty trail and you cant go forward any more and have to back down or hold your position? its all good if your front tires have a good grip. but if they don't your relying on those drums that don't like to hold when going backward. discs would be a major upgrade for anyone that wheels a lot. also that 2/3 1/3 braking ratio is the opposite when going back wards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 Oh. My. Gods! You're the man! Of course it'd be a good idea! Drums are the nasty sh*t... That's why high-end sports cars only use a disc-brake set-up! Your custom work is truly an ode to our ingenuity and hard work. Now you're making me want to do this all over again! BTW, thanks for the pics. That looks sooooo badass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Oh. My. Gods!You're the man! Of course it'd be a good idea! Drums are the nasty sh*t... That's why high-end sports cars only use a disc-brake set-up! Your custom work is truly an ode to our ingenuity and hard work. Now you're making me want to do this all over again! BTW, thanks for the pics. That looks sooooo badass! I have a feeling the setup he did is a lot easier than one on ours would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 I have a feeling the setup he did is a lot easier than one on ours would be... Dagnabit, Lax! Always gotta be the realist... :tonguefinger: LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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