unccpathfinder Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Saw this on CNN so here is the full audio clip...from what i got from the news, they were saying on the news is he is covered by texas law on 3 different laws... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yeah, I read about this, but the tape explains things better. While I HATE thieves, I have a hard time justifying them being killed in this scenario. If only he had used bird shot!!! Yeah, it sounds like he was pissed off and working himself up for a confrontation. Did I hear, the N word bleeped or is my imagination filling in blanks? The kicker is that 'plain clothes' cops were on scene (they were yelling at him to get down on the ground within 30 seconds of him firing) as the dispatcher explained AFTER the shooting. Had he said that there were unmarked officers present BEFORE the shooting, I'm guessing the guy would have not have gone out side. Yes, the dispatcher had the opportunity, why was the guy not told that? Now, on the other hand... 1) Do NOT break into someones home to commit a crime. PERIOD! (Do not commit crimes against people or property.PERIOD) 2) Do NOT do this in Texas. Texas is by far the most gun happy state, they never left the wild west. 3) When a man with a pump shot gun leveled at you says "Move, you dead", DON'T MOVE!!!! Or you will be. No one was right here, no one did what they could to avoid the deaths. There are no innocents... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Fxcking idiot. Someone should shoot him "accidentally" when he tries to come home one night. "I thought he was trying to break in!!!" If he gets away with it, so should the person shooting him with no advance warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Umm, 88? You didn't listen to the tape or read any articles, did you... They were burglars, he watched them break in, leave with a bag of stuff, confronted them AND warned them. The question is if he was justified in shooting. We will find out if they were in his yard, if they had weapons, if they were running away when shot, etc... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 OK, to enlighten you, NO, I don't think he was justified in shooting two people over $60 worth of freaking stolen property that wasn't his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Well, color me enlightened!!! $60 of loot?? I didn't catch that part. Shooting or killing them, which is the problem? How do you feel about flesh wounds? How do you feel about thieves? Ok, maybe I'm pushing a bit. I don't really agree his actions myself, but lets be serious. These is one way all of this could have easily been avoided. The 2 piece of sheits respecting other peoples property and not stealing. My sympathy well is running dry... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I could only hope my neighbor would shot someone breaking into my place. There would be many fewer crimes if you had the right to use "deadly force" in situations other than just to save your own life. I think protection of property, though a little vain, is a very good reason to open fire. I have a rifle under my bed, but if anyone came in my place they would more than likely have more cuts than a bloomin' onion by the time they made it out, if they did. I have about 50 bladed weapons throughout the house, from war axes and spears to pocket and boot knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I could only hope my neighbor would shot someone breaking into my place. There would be many fewer crimes if you had the right to use "deadly force" in situations other than just to save your own life. I think protection of property, though a little vain, is a very good reason to open fire. I have a rifle under my bed, but if anyone came in my place they would more than likely have more cuts than a bloomin' onion by the time they made it out, if they did. I have about 50 bladed weapons throughout the house, from war axes and spears to pocket and boot knives. I'd only visit you place armed to the teeth. That way I'd have a better chance at taking you stuff. And if I heard one little noise I would let loose my arsenal in that direction. That way I am assured I will not be shot or stabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Saw this on CNN so here is the full audio clip...from what i got from the news, they were saying on the news is he is covered by texas law on 3 different laws... So, is he a criminal or a law abiding citizen? He certainly had no business going out side of the house. He was never in any danger and certainly was not threatened. The law enforcement officer on the phone told him numerous times to stay indoors. He even made the point that property isn't worth killing anyone over. All on tape.. I am going to kill them he said... Cocks the gun and says "did you hear that" and out he went, Elmer Fudd off to hunt rabbits. Your dead, bang, bang... that was the warning. Mr. Horn, law abiding citizen, could not wait to try out his " it is not illegal to have a shot gun". Two counts of life in prison coming right up for that sicko. That's what you get over there for premeditated murder isn't it. Perhaps next time petty criminals enter that area they will be smart enough to have their own guns. Nice post unccpathfinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropBear Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 V6 get it right mate. It's "Wabbits" not "Rabbits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 V6 get it right mate. It's "Wabbits" not "Rabbits". You're right. I just couldn't bring myself to spell it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I could only hope my neighbor would shot someone breaking into my place. There would be many fewer crimes if you had the right to use "deadly force" in situations other than just to save your own life. I think protection of property, though a little vain, is a very good reason to open fire. I have a rifle under my bed, but if anyone came in my place they would more than likely have more cuts than a bloomin' onion by the time they made it out, if they did. I have about 50 bladed weapons throughout the house, from war axes and spears to pocket and boot knives. Nothing better than living in fear GG. May I ask what it is you are afraid of? I seem to recall a person (here on the board) saying that I was a "nut job" and "thought the world was out to get me" and other... well crazy nonsensical rantings... Why? Because world events interest me, that's why.... Let me see if I can quote the author directly.... Ah, here we go... "So should we just personally attack V6 in every thread he posts until they get locked, he gets pissed, and goes back to hiding in the basement with a tinfoil hat? I mean seriously, he is a delusional nutjob who thinks the rest of the world is out to get him (granted there probably are a few). Like ZB said, I get enough "real life/ world events" otherwise, I'm here to socialize and share Pathy knowledge. It's sad that some people have to be so worked up and live in fear that they can't enjoy life." I wonder what the author of that would say about you after reading about what can only be describe as... well, how do you describe what you wrote? Nice mirror by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yes he did say the N word...get jesse jackson and al sharpton on the phone...but they can't call him a racist b/c the families things he was saving was a Vietnamese family (pulled directly from CNN after discussion of the new black panthers being outraged) I believe the use of deadly force is acceptable in this situation...b/c if every crook knew that is what was going to happen if they got caught they wouldnt be theavin bastards...I believe the cops should have been on site within the 7 or 8 minuets it took for them to get out of the house...and as a criminal if you see someone with a shotgun and I can understand not obeying the officers command to get down he was more or less in shock of what just happened but had the right of mind to put the shotgun back in the house prior to the cops arriving... and what gripes me even more is they're going to try to do away with lethal injection? b/c its not humane who gives a flying $#&% if its humane...i'm a strong believer in eye for an eye so if you rape and strangle someone you should be strangled slowly making it worse for you than your victim or if you shoot and kill someone you should be shot in the gut and left to die over several days...but thats just me...and if your in jail you should all be in one giant ass room and they drop the food in and if you dont get any you dont get any...there should be 1 toilet and no tv or any of that crap...we could stop overcrowding easily if somebody just used their heads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Nothing better than living in fear GG. May I ask what it is you are afraid of? I seem to recall a person (here on the board) saying that I was a "nut job" and "thought the world was out to get me" and other... well crazy nonsensical rantings... Why? Because world events interest me, that's why.... Let me see if I can quote the author directly.... Ah, here we go... "So should we just personally attack V6 in every thread he posts until they get locked, he gets pissed, and goes back to hiding in the basement with a tinfoil hat? I mean seriously, he is a delusional nutjob who thinks the rest of the world is out to get him (granted there probably are a few). Like ZB said, I get enough "real life/ world events" otherwise, I'm here to socialize and share Pathy knowledge. It's sad that some people have to be so worked up and live in fear that they can't enjoy life." I wonder what the author of that would say about you after reading about what can only be describe as... well, how do you describe what you wrote? Nice mirror by the way. I don't live in fear, I just collect bladed weapons. I have them on display on the walls of my house, and if the need arose I would most likely use any that were close. Are you saying you wouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I don't live in fear, I just collect bladed weapons. I have them on display on the walls of my house, and if the need arose I would most likely use any that were close. Are you saying you wouldn't? That's a relief. For a second there I thought you were a "nut job". So I don't really need a gun with me if I were to rob your place after all? I can just use what you have laying around the house against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 That's a relief. For a second there I thought you were a "nut job". So I don't really need a gun with me if I were to rob your place after all? I can just use what you have laying around the house against you. Yep, but most of the easily seen ones aren't so easy to get off the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 To answer your question V6... He's a law abiding citizen. Why everyone keeps hitting on the fact that it was "only" property and not even his property at that is beyond me. You all sound like a bunch of little sissy girls who seem to condone stealing property as long as it doesn't belong to you? So the short and sweet of it is: This guy didn't drive across town to shoot someone. He didn't wake up that morning planning to shoot someone. As far as I'm concerned he was protecting his property. How was he to know these guys didn't see him peaking out the window and have plans to come back later and "take out the witness" or just come back later to rob his house. I live in Houston, and I'm proud that there are still a few guys out there willing to protect someone elses stuff when the owner of said stuff is at their job making $$$ to contribute to society. I don't feel one bit of sympathy for the dead beat drain on society dead guys that were too stupid to just go out and get a job if they needed money. I feel bad for the shooter. Now because of these two pieces of human garbage he has to walk around the rest of his life knowing he took two lives. These guys are 100% responsible for what happened to them. To all the flesh wound would have stopped them, or bird shot. Have you ever heard of retaliation? These guys obviously know where the guy lives, so what do you think would happen once they got out of jail/hospital a FEW days later for the crime? If you're lucky they would just try to sue you,,,fat chance tho. If I were a piece of human garbage and broke into hard working peoples houses for a "living" I would wake up in the morning wondering if today is the day I'm going to break into the wrong house and end up dead. They got exactly what they deserved. I know there are lots of hard working people who would have rather seen these losers just end up in jail. Wouldn't that be grand...Then the people they were robbing could help pay for the 3 meals a day and the cable TV they get to watch while in the "hotel" because that's what jails are in America; Hotels that you don't have to pay to stay in, and you get free food and free cable. The ONLY drawback is that you don't get to just leave whenever you want. It's bleeding heart liberal BS at it's best. I've had this conversation at work with lots of people, and it's the same there. Half say he should have listened and stayed in the house, the other half say he was justified. although about 90% agreed that they would NOT convict the home owner for anything other than disobeying an officer."911 dispatchers are usually not actual police officers so that wouldn't fly very far either. Bottom Line: I would have killed them myself, and if I have to stay home sick from work tomorrow and I catch someone breaking into a neighbors house I'm calling the cops AFTER the thieves are dead and the threat has passed. I'm just as proud of my right to use my weapons as I am to be a Texan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 To answer your question V6... He's a law abiding citizen. Why everyone keeps hitting on the fact that it was "only" property and not even his property at that is beyond me. You all sound like a bunch of little sissy girls who seem to condone stealing property as long as it doesn't belong to you? So the short and sweet of it is: This guy didn't drive across town to shoot someone. He didn't wake up that morning planning to shoot someone. As far as I'm concerned he was protecting his property. How was he to know these guys didn't see him peaking out the window and have plans to come back later and "take out the witness" or just come back later to rob his house. I live in Houston, and I'm proud that there are still a few guys out there willing to protect someone elses stuff when the owner of said stuff is at their job making $$$ to contribute to society. I don't feel one bit of sympathy for the dead beat drain on society dead guys that were too stupid to just go out and get a job if they needed money. I feel bad for the shooter. Now because of these two pieces of human garbage he has to walk around the rest of his life knowing he took two lives. These guys are 100% responsible for what happened to them. To all the flesh wound would have stopped them, or bird shot. Have you ever heard of retaliation? These guys obviously know where the guy lives, so what do you think would happen once they got out of jail/hospital a FEW days later for the crime? If you're lucky they would just try to sue you,,,fat chance tho. If I were a piece of human garbage and broke into hard working peoples houses for a "living" I would wake up in the morning wondering if today is the day I'm going to break into the wrong house and end up dead. They got exactly what they deserved. I know there are lots of hard working people who would have rather seen these losers just end up in jail. Wouldn't that be grand...Then the people they were robbing could help pay for the 3 meals a day and the cable TV they get to watch while in the "hotel" because that's what jails are in America; Hotels that you don't have to pay to stay in, and you get free food and free cable. The ONLY drawback is that you don't get to just leave whenever you want. It's bleeding heart liberal BS at it's best. I've had this conversation at work with lots of people, and it's the same there. Half say he should have listened and stayed in the house, the other half say he was justified. although about 90% agreed that they would NOT convict the home owner for anything other than disobeying an officer."911 dispatchers are usually not actual police officers so that wouldn't fly very far either. Bottom Line: I would have killed them myself, and if I have to stay home sick from work tomorrow and I catch someone breaking into a neighbors house I'm calling the cops AFTER the thieves are dead and the threat has passed. I'm just as proud of my right to use my weapons as I am to be a Texan. So it is legal in (as far as I can ascertain, backward yee haa, good ol' boys, redneck central) Texas to disobey a lawful command? It is legal to tell that officer that you are going to kill someone and then minutes later do exactly that? He could have made some money too if the law enforcer on the other end of the phone took him up on the "wanna make a bet" statement. Nah, that sick b(a)stard needs to get the needle. He shot two people in cold blood, premeditatedly and IN THE BACK! Not two people coming toward him or even threatening him. Not to mention, he shot them on his neighbours front lawn, not his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ya, you're right he's a backward hick redneck just like everyone from Texas... But I'd be willing to bet that he contributes more to the world economy in one week then the dead guys did their whole worthless lives. Probably contributes more in a month than most Australians do in a year. But ya, You're a descendant of convicts so I could see you having a problem with them getting shot and killed in their line of "work". Maybe we should just do like Europe did and start sending all our convicts to Australia. You guys would probably accept them with open arms, you want to be just like America so bad maybe that would help you guys be a little more American. They could even teach you how to sound like an American (instead of European) when you speak English. I'll look into the facts, but I'm about 95% sure the guy he was speaking to on phone was a DISPATCHER not an officer. Houston has a MAJOR police shortage and I doubt very seriously they had a sworn in office working the phone. The point being,,, He did not disobey an officer, he disobeyed a dispatcher. Who is a NOBODY that only assist officers/firefighters/ambulances so they can get to the scene a little faster. Please explain why it matters SO much whether or not the guys were stealing the shooters property or were on "his" land. I figure it was just dumb luck that the criminals were breaking in NEXT door instead of that guys house. How do you think they decided who to rip off? It could have just as easily been HIS house they were breaking into. That's the way I look at it. If they garbage had been taken out by the cops and put in jail; they would have been back on the streets breaking into more houses after staying in "hotel" for about a week at MY EXPENSE. If the cops left the donut shop a couple of minutes earlier these guys would have either been shot by cops or they'd still be alive. So why not blame the cops for a slow response time? Answer one simple question for me... Do you think these two guys would be dead if they woke up that morning and went looking for a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Two counts of life in prison coming right up for that sicko. That's what you get over there for premeditated murder isn't it. lol.. hell this is texas.. gw himself will pull the lever. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 So it is legal in (as far as I can ascertain, backward yee haa, good ol' boys, redneck central) Texas to disobey a lawful command? It is legal to tell that officer that you are going to kill someone and then minutes later do exactly that? yee haw good ole boys? you make it sound like a bad thing but they'll be the 1st ones to help you out if your stuck on a highway broke down or some other sticky situation...I'm with TC on this one and believe that if every break in was handled the same way crime would go down b/c the risk to payout ratio woudlnt be worth it and I'll agree that he disobeyed the officer on the command to get to the ground but I guarantee he was in a certain stage of shock and trying to absorb what had just happened but he did what was right and placed the shotgun back into the house so there were no misunderstanding when the police showed up and I tell you this if someone breaks into my house (even though in CA they will nail my ass) I will shoot them dead in their tracks...call it premeditated if you want but I would like to think that you would protect your dwelling and all of its contents including your family the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 and I tell you this if someone breaks into my house (even though in CA they will nail my ass) I will shoot them dead in their tracks...call it premeditated if you want but I would like to think that you would protect your dwelling and all of its contents including your family the same way They used to at least be fair out there, just had to be in fear of loosing your own life when you shoot and you were in the clear. I was only ever on the shot at end of things in CA (here too, but anyway), just glad the stupid latinos and wanna be gang bangers never learned how to shoot what they toted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 The guy is an American hero.. No need to wonder why the rest of the world views Americans the way they do, just take a long hard look at yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 You're a descendant of convicts so I could see you having a problem with them getting shot and killed in their line of "work". Maybe we should just do like Europe did and start sending all our convicts to Australia. You guys would probably accept them with open arms, you want to be just like America so bad maybe that would help you guys be a little more American. They could even teach you how to sound like an American (instead of European) when you speak English. A couple of points need to be made here. My surname is "Anderson" so think again before you generalise. The next point is your grasp of history. Europe sent convicts here? That's a new one, when did they do that?Some advise if I may... Don't say that out loud, people might think you to be uneducated. We want to be the most hated country on Earth too now! When did we say that? Europe, we sound like we are European? Is that Spanish, Croatian, German, Italian, what? I'll look into the facts, but I'm about 95% sure the guy he was speaking to on phone was a DISPATCHER not an officer. Don't look to hard. It makes no difference anyway does it? Answer one simple question for me... Do you think these two guys would be dead if they woke up that morning and went looking for a job? That's what hey were doing wasn't it? A job. You did say "their line of work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 You know, if you were to do this in Oregon you'd get charged with murder. Gun/homeowner/shooting people for kicks laws are not the same in all US states. Bottom line, there is no reason someone should have the right to end your life over a handful of property. It doesn't pay for the property, it doesn't make anyone feel any better, it costs everyone $$ and time to investigate the shooting, etc...what a complete waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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