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Pecise1, I do appreciate the offer on the pilot and the alignment tool. Believe it or not those were the first 2 items I picked up after the bearing kit. I talked my self into replacing everything that I could while everything was still opened up. I have to look at history and my project, in the past when I have had one of these dilemmas 50 percent of the time if I didn't replace "what ever" with new I was back at it with in a year. I'm not a plumber but in my plumbing escapades there have been many good examples of this, one of those being if you replace a leaky seal on the cold side than replace the seal on the hot side, regardless. All parts should be in by this afternoon so if everything goes as planned (which has not happened in a while) I should have this baby up and running by the end of the weekend. Next mechanical repair will be the water pump and timing chain. When I first heard the engine about 3 months ago there was a wobble sound from a pulley. The lady that sold me the vehicle mentioned that the water pump had never been changed and the Tbelt was changed a 110,000 so I figure it's time to change both Question on the Tbelt. Pricing parts again... the belt will go for between 30 to 85 bucks, one of those, I think has the tentioner in it. Is that something that wears out enough to change it every 150,000 miles?

Yea I keep thinking that, I'll see how it all holds together before I spend anymore money on her. The quirkiness about this is , "if it doesn't work than what?". I'm not going to throw it away and I'm not going to give it away. That fact is this vehicle will get fixed, so I guess the best thing I can so I do not have to visit the tranny area of the vehicle any time soon is to go with out lunch for a week or 2 and just change it all out while it's easy to get to.

I know that replacing as many parts as possible while this trannie is out is the SMART thing, but I'm being nicked and dime to death. I went to pick up clutch parts yesterday these parts being the, clutch plate, clutch cover, throw-out bearing,pilot bearing, plus I was going to get the fly wheel resurfaced. Clutch plates = $35 Clutch cover = $63 throw out bearing = $24 pilot = $2 resurface $25 I held off buying these items till I could ask you guys if I really needed to change them out. If I had an abundance of funds this would be a no brainier but I'm running out of capitol so I have to pick and chose. All of the old parts look o.k. so it's not like I'm replacing a bad component it' more of preventive maintenance. I need to ask you Pros. If you had to pick, in order, which parts are best to change out now? vehicle has 220000 Highway miles. I guess the crystal ball question is, which parts are most likely to need replacing in the near future?

On replacing the real seal. I definitely needed to change this. I went into the project extremely ambitious by the time I got done with getting the new seal back in 3 hours later, I didn't want to do another thing with the Pathy after that. (Severity of Rain out of forecast so not as anxious). Unexpected issues. Starter bracket needs to come off, ALL oil pan bolts need to be loosen to about the last thread, another bracket on the left side of the block needs to come off. Than the removal of a oil retainer that has been in the same place for 10 years and 200,000 miles. I think I did figure something out, while I was pricing the oil seal there was an extreme price difference on the Nation brand as to others. National wanted $34 the other between $4 to $8, I was puzzled, I could be WAY wrong on this but after trying to beat that dang seal out of the retainer, I'm wondering if National has the seal and retainer in their kit. Finally got it all put back together using a LOT of sealant. My procrastination now is the clutch, at first I was gung-ho to replace this than I started thinking maybe I should wait to see if the tranny rebuild worked. That is just plain pessimism if it doesn't work what am I going to do throw away the vehicle CRAP. There wasn't a clutch problem to begin with but the pressure plate rivets are starting to get close to the pad. I'm still kicking it around to replace the clutch or wait to see if it all works.

Let me add on tranmission Exchange, they did send the correct bearing so they did stand by the product that they were selling. I was just a little perplex about the comment that the bearing kit did not come with the rear bearing or the rear seal. I had to buy the rear seal but they did send me the other bearing with out charging me, i'll have to wait for the creadit card bill to confirm this. So would I use them again yes, but tnext time I would have them read me the parts in the kit before making the final order.

Thanks for the help, I see what's going on now. It's always good to have some one from the outside looking in, I'm being blinded by anxiousness.

Well I wonder if it is the right move to try and knock the thing out while I'm underneith. What do you think? I'll be using a hammer and big screw driver.

Like a moron I didn't pay attention to how the dust cover came off the throw bearing forks. Is the majority of that boot fit inside the bell housing or to the out side of the bell housing case? To be honest, anyway I put it on looks wrong.

Some one help me here, please. I figured while I have this thing out I would go ahead and change out the rear main oil seal. Looking at the manual it states the following on replacing the oil seal, I'll just put the parts that I'm having a problem with. "Remove rear oil seal retainer" "Remove seal from retainer" We may just be mixing words but on American cars I don't ever remember anything being called an "oil seal retainer", it's usually just a seal that you knock out and knock the new one in. I already bought the seal and it doesn't look like it's anything special but I'm concerned and puzzled at the term "oil retainer" should I be? Per the weather guys, I've got about 24 hours before the potential of serious rain hits, I had heard the possibility of 10 to 30 inches. If they're right the stream that's in front of my house will definitely break banks. This Pathy is the highest vehicle I've got.

HEE HAW, Trannie put back together (not in vehicle yet) things look good at this point, trying to get things button-up before Ms. Rita comes threw and soaks us. Got the last bearing in last night, "rear shaft bearing", the front end of the trannie was already stabbed in housing... just been waiting on this bearing to finish putting it ALL back together. Someone on one of the post mentioned something about trannie lubricant, I'm asking opinion what is the best manual trannie fluid to put in this beast?

I should add that there was nothing wrong with the rear main bearing and the trannie that I disassembled, I figure while it's apart I should change all of the bearings. I also felt there was a principal here and there was deceptiveness in the description of the content of the kit and I want what I paid for. If I don't get the bearing today I'm going to put the old one back in so I can get this thing back running. I have plans for this pathy and I'm tired of waiting on others.

I should also add, watch out where you buy your rebuild kits and make D&*n sure they warrantee them to come with ALL the bearings and seals. I purchased a bearing kit from Transmission Exchange by description was to have ALL bearings and seals. I purchased it for a two wheel drive and they verified this, the invoice show for a 2 wheel drive. One of the differences in the 2 and 4 wheel drive is the "rear main bearing", the one for the 4 wheel drive came in the kit but the bearing I needed for the 2 wheel drive "rear main bearing" was not a part of the kit. They told me they had it and could sell it to me, at which time I became a little less tactful than normal. and supposedly they are sending (with out charge) this was 5 days ago I have not seen it yet. This is coming off the heals that the rear seal is not a part of the kit either, which they sold me. To me if it says ALL bearing (excluding needed bearings) and ALL seals than I would expect ALL of both, with no special orders. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they must work with lots of transmissions and they may buy the kits from suppliers. My kit was open when I received it and parts floating lose in the box, this bent up the front seal (they replace the front with no problems).

Earth1. My first problem was the pins not that there is anything hard here except for the way the manual said "pin", it's actually "pins", it is a pin within a pin, still no big thing just needed a bigger punch. The only other thing was pullers. You will require an odd selection of puller, these you can get at any hardware or automotive store. When it comes to assembly, there is a specialty tool that you may need it's kind of a reveres puller, I guess call it a pusher Ha-Ha. It helps in getting the main shaft pushed up through the center plate. I'm not sure why but I found I didn't need to use one or I just did think I needed to use one, my shaft bottomed out on the plate with just a good shove. Directions of parts is another big thing make sure you note how they came off the manual is pretty good in indicating direction of parts during assembly.

Stabbed the gut's into the case last night. Everything seems to be spinning and matching up fine

Ah ha!! Sub-gear is basically a noise suppressor. With this Knowledge, I now have more confidance that things are going together the way they are suppose to. It makes sence that the main shaft gear would be touching the sub-gear. At higher RPM's and with everything in it's case I bet it will work just fine. (fingers crossed)

Another thing what in the Heck is that sub-gear for any way? It's just a thing piece of metal with teeath on it that looks like some thing that fell off an old push type sidewalk trimmer

Yes, I have the manual and I did notice that special tool but doesn't a Big A@# hammer accomplished the same thing. This may be naive of me but it looks like the main shaft thrust washer is flush against the middle plate as is the over drive thrust bearing. There is about a 16th of an inch between the plate and the 1st main gear. and no room from the counter gear thrust bearing to the plate. I also noticed that the middle counter gear is almost touching the main shaft 3rd main gear next to the syncro. I have looked at the color patterns on the gear teeth and every thing seems to match except for the 3rd main gear and it's adjacent counter gear but I can't see how that can happen.

I'm putting this tranny beast back together, I have one question to those that know trannys and even to those that want to give their educated opinion. I have the main shaft and counter gear shaft stabbed in to the center plate, they are as sucked upped to the plate as I can get them. Now the scenario and questions The main shaft gear is just barely touching the sub-gear when it is seat in the counter gear. The problem, the sub-gear has about 3 to 4 extra teeth than the counter gear so after about 2 revolutions the main shaft gear starts to get pushed out of the counter gear by the sub-gear. At this point of the assembly both shafts are just being supported by the middle plate bearings so I'm not sure if this action of the gears is o.k. The main shaft gear is touching the sub-gear by about a 32th of an inch Everything that came out of this beast is going back in, the only change would be bearing. Should I continue putting this thing back together and assume it will all line up when it's back in the case or is what I have described a problem I should take care of at the stage it's now?

I noticed that there could be a little leak from the back seal I figured I would change it, this is what caused my curiosity about resurfacing the flywheel. The clutch plate and the fly wheel are like glass, I'm wondering if the PO did get a new clutch and they just don't remember it. The pressure plate has little wear. I ordered the throw out bearing, pilot bearing, and pressure plate, I did not order a new clutch plate thinking that it could be resurfaced but I'm wondering maybe I should get new clutch plate. At the same time the surface on the clutch and flywheel are very, very smooth. Is it possable that a surface can be to smooth?

Not trying to hijack this thread, may I ask a clutch question pertaining to my present situation Tranny is out and parts are on their way. While I'm waiting is this a good time to get the flywheel and clutch plate resurfaced? Or should I buy a new clutch plate? To the best of my knowledge there was no clutch problem with this vehicle just the bearings in the tranny went bad.

The middle pin was solid, the outer "pin" or "sleeve" look like a roller pin. It turns out that all the "pin" that are required to knock out are design the same. The bad bearing is the "Main shaft front bearing", the is is the bearing on the main shaft but is in the center plate. I'm not sure why they call it the "front" bearing, I would have figure that title reserve to the bearing that is in the bell housing portion of the shaft. I have also found that this disassembly requires many different kinds of pullers Be warned if you do tear one of these down you need a puller with a minimum arm reach 10 inches and a "flat" puller with no less than 13 inches of all thread.

You are correct, I plan on changing ALL bearings, at least if I can find the kit with all the bearings. I checked the local dealer on the cost for just the main shaft bearing an that was 92 bucks. I located a place on the Internet that has a rebuild kit that states it includes bearings, gaskest and seals for 155 or an overhual kit which is every thing that is in the rebuild kit plus the syncros for 380. Of cource I would pick up the rebuild kit but my luck is the one bearing that is bad is probably only avaliable in the Over haul kit. The Syncros look real good along with every thing but that one bearing.

Originally what you have stated was true, at the first getting the housing to separate from the middle plate was a royal pain but I got beyond that. And you are also correct in that I did take the bell housing portion off first after I had no success with removing the arm from the rod at the back housing. Well I figured it all out. Here is the story the manual states to knock our the "pin" from the arm and rod then remove the arm with the housing. What they don't tell you nor have I experienced is that this is a "double pin" a pin with in a pin. Yes I knocked out the center of the pin thinking that the other pin was a machined sleeve to hold the pin, WRONG. After reevaluating it it is a second pin not a sleeve. I show this in one of the pictures I had recently uploaded. Out side of getting the right size pullers it's been a piece of cake to disassemble. The damage to the tranny is nil, the only thing is the main shaft bearing cage that holds the ball bearings at equal distance is gone, but all the syncros, gears, and the shafts look good.

I may not be doing a good job describing things. The front case is off and the back case would come off if the striker arm would slide off the striker rod. (the back case is seperated from the middel plate). Per the disassembly instruction from the manual, it states to drive out the "pin" that holds the arm and rod assembly together (which I've done). Than holding on to the striker arm, lightly tap and pull the rear case off with the striker arm. I am beginning to think the term "lightly tap" maybe what needs to be defined. I have not used metal to metal persuasion yet but I have put a piece of wood on the arm and smack the sh@# out of it and still nothing has moved. If anyone has done this before a little bit of input would be of great help. Let me add my disclamer financially I can not take this thing to a pro so, I will have to do. looking at the front gears and syncros I am optimistic, as things stand right now all I'm going to need is a bearing kit $160.00.

Animal, Yes, I think the striker arm is to slide off the shaft, at least it's suppose to. I have no idea what could be holding it on now. I drove the pin out, that should be it, right?