Delayed starting - ignition switch?

[EricCR]

Hi folks,

 

Recently my 2003 SE developed a strange quirk: When you turn the key to start the engine, it won't do anything for a couple of seconds (no crank, no clicking, nothing) and then it will start normally (cranks fast and engine fires right up). The problem is that in rare occasions it will take 10-20 seconds of holding the key until it starts cranking so at some point I'm concerned it will leave me stranded. The issue is more prevalent the longer the car has been sitting.

 

I found a post on another Nissan forum with exactly the same symptoms and the guy said that changing the ignition switch at the dealer didn't fix it, but then he didn't post an actual fix and the thread is 10 years old. The ignition switch was my prime suspect but could it be something else? From the top of my head I can think of the parking safety switch or the key's transponder. Not sure if R50s originally forced you to hold the brake pedal to start the engine but in mine, if it had it, was defeated by a previous owner.

 

Here's that post:

 

If anyone has had the same problem and can confirm that replacing the ignition switch did the trick, that'd be great. Other ideas are welcome.

 

Thanks!

[CALPATHY]

Manual or AT?  If manual it could be the switch on the clutch or clutch pedal adjustment.

[EricCR]

Oh crap, didn't mention it, you're right. It's an auto.

[Dbot]

Try putting some forward pressure on the shifter (still in park) when starting and try pulling back on the shifter (in park) to test your parking safety switch. I bought mine with a slight misalignment in the shifter and would sometimes apply pressure to the shifter to start it until, I took it apart and fixed it properly.

[EricCR]

Thanks, I'll try that. I'll also try starting in neutral to see if there's any improvement.

 

In any case, I bought a new OEM ignition switch anyway since they cost $40 and I'm comfortable replacing it myself. Even if that other guy's symptoms are an exact copy of mine, if there's a chance the switch is bad I don't want to go down a rabbit hole chasing other things. Start with the simple stuff, right?

[Slartibartfast]

Sounds like an easy place to start. 

 

I wonder if the starter itself could be causing this--something wrong with the contacts maybe. Does it make a click noise when you turn the key, or is there no response at all? You could run a wire up from the starter, taking the key switch out of the circuit entirely, and see if you still get the hesitation when basically hotwiring the starter. If it still acts up, then you'll know the key switch circuit isn't the problem.

[EricCR]

Yeah, I thought about that too and I see a ton of posts of R50s with starter solenoid issues. I've been trying to listen for the relay clicking but I don't hear it. So either the relay is not getting any current or it's too faint to hear it from the driver's seat. The starter relay is in the big relay/fuse box right next to the engine, right? I'll see if swapping has any effect. Hopefully there's another identical one somewhere in the car or I'll have to wait and order a spare.

EDIT: I just swapped the EGI and N-P relays (which in my car are identical) and same thing. It did start immediately in neutral, so I'll take it apart and clean the contacts.

 

 

 

It's weird that the issue behaves like the glow plugs in an old diesel engine. The longer the car has been sitting, the more time I have to keep the key in the starting position. Feels like if something is heating up and then works (that can't be the case but it feels like that). Once the engine starts, if I shut it down and start it again, it's perfect, zero delay.

Edited April 19, 2023 by EricCR

[Slartibartfast]

Always fun tracking down intermittent issues. Is it fixed or is it hiding again? Hopefully the new inhibitor relay keeps it happy.

[EricCR]

Yeah, don't tell me about it. It has its days. Yesterday I wanted to really test this but the car didn't feel like failing on me. I switched both relays around but if feels to me that did nothing. There was still this almost imperceptible delay when turning the key. Starting in neutral also feels like it's not doing much of a difference. I guess I'll have to wait for one of those instances where it really takes 20 or 30 seconds of nothing to test all combinations.

 

The new ignition switch is on its way. I'm hoping that's it, against all evidence. If not then I guess I'll have to really take a look at the park safety switch or the starter solenoid.

 

Out of curiosity, do these cars had a brake pedal safety switch as well? Mine starts without depressing it, however I do need to step on the brake to move the gear lever.

[Slartibartfast]

Nope, no brake interlock on the starter. Just the park/neutral relay (auto) or clutch relay (manual). SC-12 in the '03 manual shows the starter circuit, and there isn't much to it. 

[EricCR]

Alright, so I replaced the ignition switch last night. Things seem better but the car has been behaving for the past few days, even with the old switch so who knows. I need to do more testing.

 

By the way, this was probably the easiest ignition switch replacement I've ever done. I love cars that are designed with maintenance in mind. You do have to remove a few dash pieces but it's all very straightforward.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, I was surprised at how easy that switch was to replace in my '93. Good to hear it's similar in the R50. Hopefully the fix holds.

[EricCR]

Yeah, so far so good but I need to drive it more to really consider this issue fixed.

 

I took some photos of the whole process, mostly because I thought I would need them later to put everything back together, but it was so easy it wasn't needed. Still, maybe this will help someone in the future, especially if you don't know where the screws and clips are so you don't break any hard-to-find dash panel:

First thing you need to do is take off the kick panel. It's held in place with one screw and a couple of clips. The clip shown here is very, very strong. You can see the other one in the next photo. You may have to remove the plastic door sill first. It's clipped on and just pulls up.

 

The reason for removing that kick panel is that there's a screw holding the bottom dash cover just behind it, here (also, the other clip for the kick panel):

 

There is another screw for the bottom dash cover on the other side, under the cabin temp sensor. Once you remove both, the panel slides towards the back of the car (don't pull down). Be careful as there will be plugs for the dimmer switch, temp sensor and electric mirrors still connected. You need to unclip all those:

 

Once the lower dash cover is out, you will be able to remove the steering wheel cover. First thing you need to take out is this plastic ring highlighted in red. It's held in by friction and just pulls out, no clips and no screws. Just use something sharp:

 

Finally, you need to remove the 5 screws at the bottom of the steering column cover. Once those are removed, be careful as the two halves of the cover are still clipped on. You can press on the sides of the upper plastic part to help release the clips. It's also easier if you loosen the steering wheel adjustment lever, gives you more room:

 

With the cover away, you will have access to the ignition switch. Two small phillips screws hold it in place. Unclip the connector, remove the screws and put the new switch in the same position.

 

Before putting everything back together, reconnect the new switch and test it. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by EricCR

[EricCR]

Well, it only took a few days for the car to start acting up again. I guess next stop is the starter solenoid. So the guy from the older post I found was probably right in that the ignition switch was not it.

 

This time when it finally cranked I heard the starter grinding for a fraction of a second as the engine fired up, which is something the car hadn't done in the past, so I suppose as the problem gets worse it also becomes more evident where it's coming from.

[EricCR]

Alright, so for anyone seeing this years later and wondering what the hell it was, I took my starter motor out (it's like pulling a marshmallow out of a piggy bank slot and then pushing it back in, no fun) and had it inspected by a shop and it turns out at some point it was repaired, poorly so. Whoever messed with it used incorrect brushes and caused additional damage so the shop had to built one good starter out of two bad ones (luckily they had another one). OEM starter is a Mitsubishi for anyone curious.

 

The motor spins way faster now and instantly when turning the key. I still have to test it a bit more but I'm very confident that was it.

[Slartibartfast]

6 hours ago, EricCR said:

like pulling a marshmallow out of a piggy bank slot and then pushing it back in

 

Reminds me of doing the starter on mine. Hopefully you don't have to do it again any time soon!