RCWD21 Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Passenger side that sits perfectly in the collar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why do the races look like they are of different sizes? Maybe it's just the pic that makes them look this way, but the one in question looks smaller in both diameter and height. Have you measured them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Both races are the same size. The part number for them is L68111. The difference in the pictures is just from the angle I took them at. But on the driver side can you see how squished out the bushing is? The only thing I can think of would be a bent torsion bar but if it were bent wouldn't that side react differently from the passenger side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 All I can guess is that you added some thickness to the frame mount when you repaired the wallowed holes--the bushings sit farther apart but the sleeve didn't get any longer, so the bushings have to compress more (which, being poly, they don't like). This doesn't offer any explanation for why the last set failed, though--it assumes the death wobble in the front end was enough to do them in. It does look like the driver's side rod is at a much steeper angle than the passenger's. I don't know if that's due to how the car was sitting for the pictures (I'm assuming jacked up from the frame, front wheels off), or if it's the camera angle, but if both sides are hanging and there's that much difference in angle between them, something's wrong there. I can't remember anyone bending a strut rod but I guess it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 When I welded on the bearing races I ground the surface smooth for a clean weld. And I had this problem before I fixed the holes. I was lucky enough to find washers that were the same thickness as the frame bracket when two were stacked on top of each other. I did the same thing to both sides and only the driver side is doing this. Could my lower control arm be bent even though my measurements are the same because the strut rod is helping hold it in place? The strut rods are sitting very close to level with the torsion bars. When I took these pics with the new bushings I was on a road bit it leaned slightly to the passenger side because of the angle of the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I was also thinking about take one of the old bushings that are still good and shortening them a little bit in the side that comes in contact with the cupped washer and see if that will do anything. Nothing has changed besides me installing poly bushings for the control arms leveling the ride height with the rear and getting all the grit and grime off of everything. I even ground down the bearing races to about half their thickness to give more room to pivot. Edited July 21, 2015 by RCWD21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Guys I think I just found my entire problem! Where the bracket is welded to the frame, the driver side is about an 1/8 of an inch further forward compared to the passenger side. The only thing I can think of to solve this is to install a modified bushing (trimmed down a little bit) to compensate for the smaller space Edited July 21, 2015 by RCWD21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 So your frame is damaged? How can the bracket be 1/8th in further forward? I suppose this could have been a manufacturing flaw, but given that these are built using jigs, I would question that based solely on no one else ever seeming to have this problem/cause. How did you measure to find out that the bracket is further forward? Look at FSM pages BF65-67 for more info on measuring the frame. Is it just possible that the LCA is sitting further back? Which is what I was implying as a possible problem before. I wouldn't changing anything about the current setup until you double verify the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 My frame shows no signs of damage anywhere on it. There's not even a spec of rust inside or out. When I lay underneath it and look at the bracket compared to the position of the front differential crossmemeber the driver side is further forward compared to the passenger. I'll take a picture here in a few minutes after I run to get my new shocks. The control arm isn't bent that I can see. I've measure several x patterns all through my frame and they're square. I know I seem like a hassle but I want to get to the bottom of this issue before my trip to Ohio here in a few weeks. And I plan on offroading when I get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 I forgot to add that all the bushings upper and lower have been replaced in the control arms with the red energy suspension ones. Those were fun putting in lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unit6usa Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ok, so I def agree that putting on new Energy anything is fun lol!!! (I've done it myself) To me your problem can't be anything other than front end bushings (prob not) or misalignment of the front end or BODY (more likely). If you have that great of a misalignment in your front end then my first thought would be the compression rods (like you said). This however does not seem like a a bushing problem to me. Rather it looks like a body alignment problem. I know you have tested this already, yet I do not know what your rig has been through, it sounds like some serious "jumping" on your stock suspension in the past. I have done some jumping in the past when it was worn and I ended up with "similar" results. If your center link "length" does not match up then you should be driving around cockeyed from your driving position with some "near sighted wear" on that same side. Not only that but ANY other piece of suspension equipment can cause this ON ITS OWN. There must be a "master" that is doing it or you haven't tighten things to "spec" Welcome to any new inquest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've got a parts truck that I can use for measurements with things such as the control arms and suspension specs AMD things. My dad also has a 93 hardbody that I've looked at. I haven't abused it but I'm not 100% sure of its past life being that at least the first 4 years of its life were spent in Panama (I still havee the rear registration sticker on the rear window). When I did the bushings I inspected everything since it was already mostly apart. I'm racking my brain trying to figure this out. From the service manual section for checking the frame and suspension and everything is how its supposed to be. I highly doubt bad shocks could do it but could it? They're worn and have a slow reaction time. This bushing has lasted longer than the previous one but I haven't taken it off road yet. I'm waiting for the correct outer tie rod ends to come in. The company I got the kit from sent me ones from a bad batch. Other than that everything under the front dealing with steering has been replaced (just waiting to install it). Its going to be sitting for a few days so I'm going to be doing my rear sway bar end links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've taken a straight edge to the front cross member and its straight. The bushings are all nice and tight and there's no missing bolts. I'm anal about missing pieces lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 unit6uas, By "body" I assume you mean "frame" Because a misalignment of the body is not going to effect the suspension, unless said "misalignment" was so great that the body was crunched down and into the patch of the suspension, preventing it from moving through it's full range... remember that WD21's are not UniBody, they are Body on Frame construction. RCWD21, No bad shocks are not going to cause a misalignment of the suspension nor the bushing to be pressed up and bulging out on one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I still say that the bearing race in question looks smaller than the other. Again that could just be due to the images and I know you said that they are the same part number... but just to make me feel better about it, did you actually compare the two side by side and back to back before installing? Could one have been the wrong race, in the right box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 There's no body damage except for the hole under the rear seat and a little by the doors near the bottom but that's it. There's no frame damage that I can find measuring. RedPath88 I pulled up the pages you told me about and everything to the best of my ability is correct. This rig drives straight and smooth besides the wandering steering as you know is already being taken care of. It now has new shocks and here soon I will be doing the sway bar bushings up front. I have a question to ask you though, what's the probability of a torsion bar being bent pulling on the front spline cup and in turn tweaking the angle of the lower control arm? Let me know if that doesn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 And yes the races are the same size. Same part number stamped on the back lip and I measured them just to be doubly sure because I didn't buy them both at the same time. I did one side and decided to go ahead and do both sides while everything was apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Ok guys, I'm going to measure my frame again today just to double check myself. I really need to find what's going on with this thing, its driving me crazy and I don't want it to cause damage down the road. its an out there question but what if the bracket is actually further forward? what would I do to fix that? I was thinking maybe shorten the collar along with the short bushing on the front side and a standard bushing on the back and when its tightened down everything will be correct but still allow for movement. but that's only if the bracket is forward and not correctly welded to the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Given that there is no difference in the stock bushing cups I doubt it was a problem. I would compare measurements to another Pathfinder and see if it is the same. Also consider where you are measuring from when checking them. It would not be unreasonable for the brackets to actually be different side to side. So make sure the measurement point is common to both. Best possible point would be exactly as it is shown in the FSM. Ass for a Bent T-bar causing an issue with the lower control arm, I suppose anything is possible, but I think that would be unlikely. And even if it was the cause I would think that it the bend would have to be pretty extreme to effect it that much. A vary hard it, with a easily seen bend. At the point that the connect tot he LCA, they would not have much leverage against the LCA mounting points to "pull" the arm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Today I measured even more and I compared the right side to the left side and I can't find any differences at all. I've even pulled out the digital calipers that I have and everything measures the same as both the parts truck and my dads d21. I just can't physically wrong. One thing I was pondering was, is it possible that improper caster is causing an issue? I don't think it is as my tires are wearing pretty evenly and the pathfinder drives fairly straight and it doesn't pull towards the left except when the roads are just really bad. What else can I do to find this problem? I'm at a loss finally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 There comes a point where you may find that you are just running in circles. May be it is time to replace the bushings, take it in for an alignment and see if they find anything wrong. It costs more initially but if you have, or get, a Forever Alignment from Firestone then paying again if you have to rework the cups (or anything else) won't be an issue. But having it professionally checked and adjusted may help expose any actual problems in the suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 A difference in caster angle should be fairly easy to spot and measure site to side with the wheels off. Another thought would be to get some fresh eyes on it, if you have that option. Someone who has not been involved in it thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I was actually looking into that, have you ever experienced anything like this with any of your rigs? I'm going to try installing the modified bushing AMD sleeve just to see if it sits better and doesn't compress as much. If it does end up being just a quirk on the side then this thread will hopefully help anyone else that sees this and is experiencing a similar problem (I can't find anything at all online). Monday I'm going to finish the steering smd install my front shocks and get an alignment even though I can get it close to 3 degrees from factory specs just by eye. I guess I'm just lucky with that but at least I can drive it to where I choose to get it aligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I don't know of anyone that's experienced enough to look over this thing. And around here everyone wants an arm and a leg to "check things out" and I thought that was the case but I'd rather ask and know for sure from someone far more experienced than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Ok guys I've gone through another set of the poly bushings since I last posted. They keep splitting at the seems. I'm going to order a rubber set and seriously think abijt selling this rig. I'm getting tired of working on it. Everything is great minus these stupid bushings. I got stuck last night in a big rut and this morning I noticed my steering wheel is crooked but it doest pull or fight me. All I can see is that the bushings are split on the driver side again. I don't even want to look at the passenger side and I'm really hoping that I just damaged the bushing from being pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now