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Suspension Advice


xterra
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I know, this topic has been batted around here quite a bit, and I've search for what I could find. However, I still have questions that I'm hoping y'all can help me with.

 

The rig is a 1990 2-Door SE automatic with 165K miles at stock height. 90+ percent of my driving is blacktop or asphalt, with the rest being well groomed trails. In other words, nothing extreme.

 

I'm not planning to do any kind of suspension or body lift, with the exception of possibly Old Man Emu helper springs in the back for ~3/4" lift.

 

The wife has agreed to let me get this done, :jig: so I want to do as much as I can without freaking her out. Since it's my daily driver, I will be outsourcing the work to a local shop - mostly because I can't take the time to do it myself.

 

I know that I'm going to replace:

- Rear helper springs because of compression & noise, either with Nissan OEM or OME

- Front & rear shocks because they're weeping, with either Rancho or OME

- Rear bump stops are completely gone, with Nissan OEM

- Torsion bars because they're cranked and still sagging, probably with Sway-a-Way

- Idler arm, with Moog (because it's just as much as replacing the idler arm bushing on the factory piece, per the shop)

 

What I need help deciding is if it makes sense to do any or all of the following:

- Front ball joints (top and bottom) and inner and outer tie rod ends and tie rod adjuster. (There's a Moog kit that has all of this together.) How do I know if it's needed, or should I just do it? :shrug:

- UCA and LCA bushings. If figure if I'm doing the stuff above, these wouldn't hurt.

 

Anything else that you would recommend based on this?

 

Apologies for the long post, but wanted to get the details out up front. Thanks for all your advice. :aok:

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Consider tie rods and centerlink.

 

I would jack the front up and let the tires hang off the ground. Grab each tire and move it side to side. You will see some movement if things are bad.

 

Idler arms seem to hold up well. Like others I made my own idler arm brace. You can buy one if you don't have the skills to make one. Do you need one, probably not.

 

I would replace upper and lower ball joints. While you are there repack the bearings. Inspect the bearing for wear before packing them.

 

You can re index the torsion bars. If you do only go one tooth. If you have any boots missing on the bars change them. The dealer should still sell them.

 

Inspect your cv shaft boots. If one is ripped I would just replace the whole shaft. Just easier and good insurance in case the joint has been exposed for a while.

 

I could go on. My point is if you have never touched the front end, do it all. It will make the wife feel safer.

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I know, this topic has been batted around here quite a bit, and I've search for what I could find. However, I still have questions that I'm hoping y'all can help me with.

 

The rig is a 1990 2-Door SE automatic with 165K miles at stock height. 90+ percent of my driving is blacktop or asphalt, with the rest being well groomed trails. In other words, nothing extreme.

 

I'm not planning to do any kind of suspension or body lift, with the exception of possibly Old Man Emu helper springs in the back for ~3/4" lift.

 

The wife has agreed to let me get this done, :jig: so I want to do as much as I can without freaking her out. Since it's my daily driver, I will be outsourcing the work to a local shop - mostly because I can't take the time to do it myself.

 

I know that I'm going to replace:

- Rear helper springs because of compression & noise, either with Nissan OEM or OME REAR HELPER SPRINGS? The rear main springs that are your only suspension? Yes, replace/upgrade them.

- Front & rear shocks because they're weeping, with either Rancho or OME Makes sense, sounds like they are shot.

- Rear bump stops are completely gone, with Nissan OEM If you do nothing extreme, you don't need them and are just wasting your $ by replacing them.

- Torsion bars because they're cranked and still sagging, probably with Sway-a-Way There is a write-up on how to reindex the stock T-bars. Do it and save $. A road rig doesn't really need Sway Away bars.

- Idler arm, with Moog (because it's just as much as replacing the idler arm bushing on the factory piece, per the shop) See below...

 

What I need help deciding is if it makes sense to do any or all of the following:

- Front ball joints (top and bottom) and inner and outer tie rod ends and tie rod adjuster. (There's a Moog kit that has all of this together.) How do I know if it's needed, or should I just do it? :shrug:

- UCA and LCA bushings. If figure if I'm doing the stuff above, these wouldn't hurt.

 

Anything else that you would recommend based on this?

 

Apologies for the long post, but wanted to get the details out up front. Thanks for all your advice. :aok:

 

As for replacing the front end components, that can be a can of worms. Often replacing a few things doesn't make a huge difference, or just makes the issues shift to another worn part of the system.

How does it ride/steer now? Any signs of real issues? Can you trust your shop to give you realistic diagnosis, not just money making quotes?

If it drives ok, I'd leave it alone. If the trustworthy mechanic says something is whacked/failing, obviously replace it.

CLA bushings are a PITA from what I have heard, so they may be a big labor cost item with minimal returns, and the tension rod bushings (LCA TO FRAME) should be checked as well, they are often overlooked and shot by that mileage (or 1/2 that).

 

B

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RF & B-

Thanks. Those are two very different approaches.

 

 

How does it ride/steer now? Any signs of real issues? Can you trust your shop to give you realistic diagnosis, not just money making quotes?

 

 

B- I know that I need shocks, helper springs, and t-bars just based on the ride and noises. Steering overall is fine. The last time that I had it in the shop they said that the idler arm bushing needed to be replaced, but that's all they found in the front.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. A worn idler can make the front end feel much looser than it really is.

 

However in regards to checking stuff I want to point something out. If you're shaking the front end down on a ball joint style set up (tie rod ends and center link connect via ball joints) one tire must be on the ground so you have something to put force against to properly diagnose where any play might be coming from. With both tires in the air, it's easy for play to not show up.

 

Keeping things greased regularly is key to having parts last longer. And honestly with 160k, hopefully easy driving, and good maintenance the front end should be in pretty good shape.

 

LCA bushings will likely kill you on labor. They are not easy.

 

But definitely replace the compression rod bushings. They're bad. I guarantee it.

 

One benefit of new and stiffer torsion bars on the road will be better handing. However stiff bars and Ranchos sounds like a pretty jarring ride. Re-indexing would be a good choice and save a lot of money.

Edited by Kingman
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RF & B-

Thanks. Those are two very different approaches.

 

 

B- I know that I need shocks, helper springs, and t-bars just based on the ride and noises. Steering overall is fine. The last time that I had it in the shop they said that the idler arm bushing needed to be replaced, but that's all they found in the front.

Yes, but for good reason. I've done both, and can definitely say that 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' can go a long way when the vehicle is only subject to 'normal' driving.

We have a '99 R50 with 180k miles, original suspension. Rides like an old Caddy, but handles fine, tracks straight and doesn't have any issues. I've been telling myself I need to replace the suspension for 30,000 miles now... :shrug:

 

B

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RF & B-

Thanks. Those are two very different approaches.

 

 

B- I know that I need shocks, helper springs, and t-bars just based on the ride and noises. Steering overall is fine. The last time that I had it in the shop they said that the idler arm bushing needed to be replaced, but that's all they found in the front.

 

X2 on re-indexing the torsions. Unless something is physically wrong with one of them, IE bent or other wise damaged, they don't normally go bad.

 

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RF & B-

Thanks. Those are two very different approaches.

 

 

B- I know that I need shocks, helper springs, and t-bars just based on the ride and noises. Steering overall is fine. The last time that I had it in the shop they said that the idler arm bushing needed to be replaced, but that's all they found in the front.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the idler arm has 2 thin plastic bushings that can be purchased through the dealership for about $5, and it is a 15 minute job to replace them. Otherwise, it sounds like you shouldn't mess with the rest too much yet. Other than the strut rod, tension rod, compression rod bushings (whatever you want to call the damn things)...

 

B

Edited by Precise1
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What everyone else said. Just grease everything with a zerk, add zerks to the ones that don't, and they will last forever. As for shocks I would not go for anything heavy duty unless you wheel it as the ride suffers. The monroe shocks make for nice ride on a street queen.

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So I've got an appointment for the end of the month to take it to a new shop and have them give it the once over.

 

Based on what I've read, I'm inclined to leave the ball joints, UCA and LCA bushing, and tie rod ends alone. I'll make sure they look at the compression rod bushings closely. (Thanks to all for the sanity check!!)

 

For the rear, based on the last shop's assessment and my own looking around, the helper spring seats are toast - so since I'm having to replace those I might was well replace the springs, too. Like I mentioned before, the bump stops are completely gone so need those, too.

 

For the front, there are a couple reasons I'm looking at new torsion bars: the LH has sagged from close to normal to pretty darned low in less than a year, and RH has been low since I bought the truck. They're sagging at different rates, so (and correct me if I'm wrong) there's really no way to get them level. New ones would solve that.

 

As for the shocks, I need to rethink the OME or Ranchos. I'm looking for something that will smooth out the ride a bit, not make it stiffer. Right now it has low-end Monroe shocks and the ride is jarring - but I also don't know how old they are, just that they're showing signs of going bad. I've seen KYB and Bilsteins mentioned in several threads, so I may look at those.

 

Anyone have any experience with Gabriel Max Control? A buddy here has them on his F-150 and swears by them.

 

 

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For the front, there are a couple reasons I'm looking at new torsion bars: the LH has sagged from close to normal to pretty darned low in less than a year, and RH has been low since I bought the truck. They're sagging at different rates, so (and correct me if I'm wrong) there's really no way to get them level. New ones would solve that.

WRONG!! :lol:

Between re-indexing and the adjustment mechanism, the t-bars actually have a tremendous amount of adjustment range. It should be fairly easy to get both sides of the front even and level. Actually, that really should be done before doing anything else to the front end, especially an alignment.

Generally, the t-bars only need replacing due to some sort of failure, but if you say yours are settling back down significantly within a year, then perhaps the material is sufficiently fatigued that they do need replacing. :shrug:

I'd price stock against Sway-Away before making any choices.

 

B

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WRONG!! :lol:

 

I'd price stock against Sway-Away before making any choices.

 

Thanks, B. I'm always learning more about the oily bits of these trucks. I'll have to see what the shop says.

 

Regarding the torsion bars, Sway-Away is coming back at 2-to-1 against Nissan OEM parts pricing. ($200-ish each for Nissan, $210 for the SA pair from RuggedRocks and 4x4parts.)

 

So here's another assumption: Aftermarket torsion bars claim a 20-30% increase spring rate over factory, which to me means a slightly smoother ride on pavement.

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No problem!

 

I didn't realize the S-A bars were 12 the price of stock Nissan, that makes it an easy choise. The stiffer spring rate will actually give you a stiffer ride in general (not as compliant). Most people who use the S-A bars are either compensating for a front bumper/winch (200-300 lbs) and or for off roading where you don't want the suspension to compress as much (bottoming out).

I have a set I need to install myself.

 

B

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I'm more of a do it all so you know it has been done. Less to worry about. It is a bit more expensive to replace it all, especially if you pay to have it done. Don't be surprised if the shop wants to replace a lot of items. It doesn't help that I don't trust others to work on my vehicles unless I can't fix it myself.

 

I like the boards here. Lots of helpful people.

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