AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I have been wondering this for a while, what is the limiting factor, other than sway bar, on our rear flex? Is more the coil spring length or the extended shock length?? Is there a way to run longer shocks (longer than the typically suggested like the length shocks for a SFD setup) with lets say the AC lift only, no SFD, to allow the rear to drop lower? Then if so what about the rear coil spring, does it stay where it is or will it unseat itself?? Can you prevent the rear coil spring from popping out if dropped waaayyy low? Sorry for the dumb question I'm more used to leaf springs from my 06 Frontier not so much our rear coils, and havent really wheeled this pathfinder as its my DD and I'm so busy with life! Thanks again for any input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) In my experience it's shock length. My OME coils achieve their lift by higher spring rate and thicker coils, not extended length. In terms of drop, I believe without the shocks and sway you coil literally "droop" them out. Control arms are a factor as well. Edited February 26, 2014 by Karmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 So do you know if we could use like a 30 inch extended length shock, which is what I'm assuming the SFD + AC lift would use, with just the AC lift and gain extra travel? Minus the sway bar of course. And my other thought is what keeps the Coil Spring from unseating? I guess I need to get under my truck and have a look see as I'm not familiar with its coil spring setup. I thought I remember seeing a video of a SAS'd White Pathfinder WD21 where on the rear suspension the actual coil would stay on the rear axle and the top would literally come off the top perch, it was just attached to the axle. It had amazing amounts of travel, but it always made me think "that cant be normal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I assume so, again I don't know too much about SFD setups, but potentially yes. IIRC though there isn't anything keeping the rear coils from unseating. Edited February 26, 2014 by Karmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The problem arrises when the opposite wheel is rising and will contact the inside of the fender well. you have to balance the down with the up. and keep it drivable. nothing other than tension keeps the springs in place, well maybe the spring perch. More suspension will require mods to the entire set up including longer trailing arms, brake lines, pan hard bar, drive shafts etc, it can be a very complicated endeavour. I've got Iron Man lift springs which gave me just shy of a 2" lift ( I needed to add 1" spacers up front to balance things out.) With bilstein 5150s that are 2" longer than stock it runs great but I do notice that the rear wheel is no longer centred in the wheel well. It has arced slightly forward. longer or adjustable lower links would correct this but for now its ok with me. this is because the suspension linkage does not always follow a straight line. Without compensating for that, adding any more lift would probably negatively affect the performance IMO. Check out the rugged rocks tuck, thats got as much flex as you'll ever see but it's built on a wd frame...ie, body on frame so he can run a body lift and suspension upgrades. not to mention it's one of the most modified trucks out there and probably worth more that all 3 of ours combined if you count labour hours as well as parts. I'm sure there are plenty of pics of "flexing R50s" out there and you'd be impressed just how well they do, even in stock form. Its one of the secrets as to why this platform works so well off road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 So with the AC lift which is 2 inches of lift you could add shocks that are more than 2 inches over stock to get more articulation?? I know that there would obviously be a limit but I just was thinking I could obtain a bit more droop out of my rear suspension if I had longer travel shocks ( within reason ). That's why I thought possibly the 30 inch extended length shocks with just the AC lift, not the AC lift on top of the SFD, could possibly give more more travel. But what I wasn't sure about was whether or not the coil spring length or the shock length was the limiting main factor for max flex. Sorry maybe I'm not articulating what I'm thinking in my mind into written words, lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Bushnut is correct, with the AC lift and 2" longer shocks, it should net you more flex. I believe SFDs use Jeep Grand Cherokee 6" rear springs anyway. Factory has quite a bit of travel as is, so for my tastes 2" is more than enough extra. Here's my baby at a wee stock height: More than enough flex for me, and now with the extra 1.75" of overall lift, I am extremely satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah I'm just looking for the most articulation without more than a 2 inch lift. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Because I don't have lockers so it important to have a good amount of travel in the back. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 good driving technique can make up for the lack of locker usually. do they make some stuff easier? yes. are they required? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I understand where you're coming from. It just depends on the trails you run, but if you're buying an SFD you need a 6" lift in the back. A 2" lifted pathy can make it quite far. Get those extended shocks we're talking about, and it should offer some solid flex. Add in the right technique and the results are sometimes shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Oh yeah I understand about the technique for sure. Being in ONAZ our nissan off-road club out here in AZ, when I had more time I was wheeling my 2nd gen frontier without lockers and made it through everything I tried. I'm just not as familiar with our pathfinders abilities yet as I haven't taken it off-roading. Most of our club consists of frontiers and xterras, inyourface was the only pathfinder but he moved to Colorado. Koveman is around but I don't think we've ever wheeled together. So as far as wheeling goes I'm pretty well versed, just not with a pathfinder. My good friend Penski who has probably the most built frontier in the country did all my work on my frontier so I'm trying to talk him into helping me with this one later down the road. If you wanna see a ridiculous built frontier do a google search or YouTube search for SAS'd frontier he has a bunch of videos on YouTube most of the SAS'd frontier videos are his. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Yeah I'm just looking for the most articulation without more than a 2 inch lift. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk When I first installed my Iron Man springs (35mm gain in front slightly more in the rear) I used KYB gas a just shock in the rear, they were stock length...the ride was not bad but they were almost at full extension all the time. cornering at speed or on off camber trails I noticed that things were not as they should be. After switching to the Bilsteins with a 2" longer stroke the traction and ride is WAY better. I'd say as good as stock but with the added benefit of being more! Installing lift springs and /or spacers will always include longer shocks. though there is a limit to your gains. Without doing major surgery I'd say 1-2" is the most practical and affordable way to go. give me a day or 2 and I show you what kind of flex I'm getting. Edited February 27, 2014 by bushnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yeah I'll just have to do some more research I suppose. Thanks got the input guys!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Well then as reference, I would say that a stock pathfinder with 30.5" tires on there is roughly equivalent to a stock Xterra Off Road edition (minus locker of course), but with more flex in the rear. I've made it through some very surprising obstacles (even down a mountain biking trail (don't worry it was an emergency)). Anyway, wheel it and see is the best advice I can give. Start small and see what you like/don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Oh I'm really excited to wheel this Pathfinder as I think it will out wheel my built Frontier by leaps and bounds, the rear susepnsion alone is so much better than the Frontier's leaf sprung rear by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) So these should work with just the AC lift right? Pro comp 929500 They have a nice extended length of 29.83 inches and a compressed length of 17.32. I always thought this was what people were using for the SFD lift, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, thanks! Edited February 27, 2014 by AZ_Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Are you guys mixing up SAS and SFD? To get articulation from the rear, disconnect the sway bar and put in shocks with a longer extended length, 2-3" should be enough unless you are doing a lift as well and that needs to be added in. You may want to install spring keepers as well, people have flexed enough to drop them out. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) No I'm just talking about the AC lift. I don't need too much lift. The amount of lift from the AC lift is enough for what I want to do. I just wanting to know if I can run longer extended length shocks with just the AC lift. So the shock length you typically would see on a SFD lift with AC lift on top of that but only on a AC lift, I want more rear axle downward travel (flex) without too much lift. So that's why I was asking about the shock length of say around 29 to 30 inches extended length instead of 26 to 27 inches extended length to get that extra downward axle travel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited February 28, 2014 by AZ_Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) I would use caution when installing longer shocks in the rear, especially if the shock length is not commensurate with the suspension lift height. Articulation is not just about how much droop you get. It is also about how far you can stuff the opposite tire into the wheel well. Longer shocks will increase your down travel, but will decrease the up travel. You do not want to allow the suspension to bottom out on the shock. It should always bottom out on the bumpstop (or the spring). If the shock is the component that limits up travel, the shock itself or the mounts could become damaged. Edited February 28, 2014 by XPLORx4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Absolutely, droop and stuff are roughly reciprocal which is why I recommended shocks with a longer extended length, and nothing overdone. Even an extra inch with the same compressed length is good improvement, but I did not point that out. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Pathfinder Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 So what shocks so you all recommend them for the most travel with just the AC lift? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 just to clarify, the SFD is when you lower the front drive train ( front diff and suspension components together ) usually involving steel blocks and or tubing. the AC lift is 2" longer coil springs (either in length or compression rate) same as Iron Man or OME. Most folk do a 4" SFD combined with lift springs for a net gain of 6inches (REMEMBER THIS IS FRONT ONLY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 having some technical difficulties.... just to clarify, the SFD is when you lower the front drive train ( front diff, suspension and steering components together ) usually involving steel blocks and or tubing between those components and the unibody. ground clearance under the front diff doesn't change but allows bigger tires. the AC lift is 2" longer coil springs (either in length or compression rate) same with Iron Man or OME (spring rates will vary). this raises the body and pushes the suspension down increasing ground clearance but limiting down travel on the front struts. some folks have done a 4" SFD combined with lift springs for a net gain of 6inches (REMEMBER THIS IS FRONT ONLY) With a SFD this needs to be balanced with 6in lift springs in the rear to balance things out. They are usually sourced from a jeep. If all you are doing is lift springs on all 4 corners...not much can be done with the struts we are stuck with. they will suffer a shorter life span because of the strain the stiffer/longer springs put on them. a 1or 2 in spacer on top of the strut top hat can reduce the amount of rake the truck will have after installing 2in springs in the back. Balance the length of rear shock to the amount of spring lift to maintain a good ride and keep things sorta within spec. the added ground clearance along with the gained suspension "flex" will be noticed. hope this helps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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