Tungsten Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I started to have some issues with my old Nissan water pump (which had a small leak because the seal broke apparently) and have always used Nissan water pumps but decided to try something different on this timing belt interval as it was already coming up. I used a Gates timing belt and tensioner along with a Gates water pump. The timing belt and tensioner component kit works great, I can't ask for more and it saved me a good chunk of cash. The water pump however decided to crap out on me in less than 5000 miles. I guess I got a bad one? Removing the water pump and alternator v-belt makes the noise go away. I had a rebuilt alternator that failed on me as well so I used a good known alternator (which is a fresh rebuilt I will be replacing later) that was bench tested and half of the terrible noises went away but it did not make this noise. Here is the video when I changed the alternator with a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syrzQWHnCjU As you can see the pulley is a little shaky and the pump is making some terrible bearing noises but it is not leaking. Is it possible to replace the water pump without removing the timing belt? If not can I re-use the timing belt and tensioner? This timing belt has less than 5000 miles on it as it was done when the pump was replaced. I already ordered a new Nissan water pump because I know it is proven to last at least a while before needing to be replaced. To answer some questions... No, I never run straight water in my cooling system. No, my fan clutch is not shot and has zero play. No, the belts were never over-tightened. As you can see I am pretty much screwed here. No doubt I am going to have to drain the radiator and while I am at it any coolant recommendations are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuong Nguyen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 First I've heard of a water pump failure. I've used a few different brands of water pump but never had one fail. Never had a Gates brand water pump though. You can replace the pump without remove the belt and tensioner if you want to save a few minutes but it's just better to take it off and get it out of the way so you don't get the stuff wet. Nothing special with coolant. I generally just use a 50/50 mix of the regular cheap stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yeah I have no idea. I must have got a defective one. Good point on not getting the timing belt wet with coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhornet Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 i had one fail the very next day i installed it got to work and it was leaking was not happy they gave me another pump and it lasted years but sucked doing the job 2 days in a row i risked reusing the belt and left it on when i changed the pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Looks like I will be replacing this one myself. I just got a 3/8" Snap-On torque wrench and a DeWalt 18v 3/8" cordless impact along with some 3/8" adapters. Look at all the nice tools I can buy by not going to a shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Look at all the nice tools I can buy by not going to a shop! Exactly, and those same tools will help with other repairs, not to mention can be sold or traded when appropriate. B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yes, tools are a very good long term investment. I never look at tools as expenses. Especially not when they are quality tools! Anyway, the time has come to remove the harmonic balancer. I can probably just hold it and spin the bolt out with the impact. I am going to have to put it back on eventually... Any tips on holding it from rotating when torquing it down? I know there are a few timing belt write-ups already but that's the only bit of information I need. Someone suggested removing the starter and jamming the flex plate but that looks really annoying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Gates is usually good stuff, but like anything it is made by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 The funny thing is it only has play in a certain position. If I turn it more the play goes away then comes back again as I turn it back to where the play developed. Could be a faulty ball bearing. I have very good experiences with Gates stuff but this pump failed in a really weird way. Could be from the fan clutch but I doubt as that is in good shape. To prevent water pumps from wearing out so soon, I am going to be doing an electrical fan as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuong Nguyen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 There's a strap wrench you can get. Some are the adjustable rubber belt and sOme are chain. You. An try using them but I just torque the bolt down by feel now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Put it in gear or park and have someone hold the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) I wish but automatics don't work like that. If there is nothing in the torque converter then you can spin the engine by hand even if you are in park. In other news... When I pulled the timing cover off some coolant dripped on the belt. I wiped it off with some alcohol wipes and it looked good. The bottom crank pulley cog came off by hand too! I cleaned that up as well. Good thing I decided to do this myself. I was surprised that the timing belt was not even tensioned! Finally changed the water pump and torqued the bolts down to 144 in/lbs. Rubbing that RTV on both sides of the gasket was sure fun. Nothing beats scraping the old one off with a razor blade though. Now I have to put the timing belt back on. Edited June 29, 2012 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) OK it's all back together and runs much smoother and quieter! The engine has a perfect idle and it's not as noisy during revs. The belt was definitely loose before. The shop that did it just left the tensioner in its factory position without actually putting any tension on the belt. Here are the two things I did in the process: http://www.nissanpat...-a-timing-belt/ http://www.nissanpat...monic-balancer/ Now I can't tell if I may have put a little too much tension on the timing belt or if it's the water pump being noisy from air in the system. The noise seems to be going away as I'm adding coolant and taking bubbles out so I'm going to lean toward that for now. It could also be the ****** bearings in the reman alternator. The tension procedure for the timing belt is just so bad. It's impossible to tell if the belt is too loose or too tight. I just used some common sense and feel. I know you have to twist it at almost exactly 90 degrees but with how much force? I guess I will see how long this belt lasts. It runs and drives for now but I might need to top off the transmission fluid from what leaked out when I disconnected the cooling lines. Wasn't much but better put some fluid back in. Edited July 4, 2012 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Oh my effing God you thick skulled twat. The FSM calls for 1/2" deflection with 22LBS of force applied to the belt. That's ALL you need to know. A wooden stick or something to clear the intake, a measuring tape, and 22LBS of weight! Lead, parts, steel, fskc go outside and fill up a bag of rocks, whatever it doesn't matter... Put the belt on roll the engine over a few times put the measuring tape behind the belt put the dowel on the belt put the weight on top and tighten the tensioner until the belt only drops a half an inch roll the engine over check and adjust if needed! Boom done carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Chill bro, I figured it out just fine. I was complaining about how it's impossible to do it the way they tell you to. Actually 15 mm is 0.59 inches of deflection and that's more than 1/2 inch. It's fine the belt just had to break in all the noises are gone now aside from the slightly whiny alternator (can be verified by the v-belt). I am now 100% sure I set the proper tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I recently replaced my timing belt and water pump and have the same noise as you, and no leaks. Do you say that is only break-in and air bubbles in the coolant? I also replaced all the drive belts tensioners bearings with new ones. Sorry for my poor english, Greetings, Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBigPerm Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Yes, tools are a very good long term investment. I never look at tools as expenses. Especially not when they are quality tools! Anyway, the time has come to remove the harmonic balancer. I can probably just hold it and spin the bolt out with the impact. I am going to have to put it back on eventually... Any tips on holding it from rotating when torquing it down? I know there are a few timing belt write-ups already but that's the only bit of information I need. Someone suggested removing the starter and jamming the flex plate but that looks really annoying to do. When I did my timing belt on my A/T Pathy, I used the alternator belt (the longest one) to hold the pully. The way I did it was strap it around the 2nd pully grove (one of the largest diameter ones) with the excess facing down and towards the driver's side. I got underneath, stuck a spare breaker bar through the belt and began winding it up, making sure the belt stayed in the groove (it would sometimes try to pop out). After 6 or so full twists it was pretty tight, and I was able to wedge the breaker bar between the LCA (I think) bracket and a bumper bracket perfectly. Sure enough, it held it tight enough to break the bolt loose as well as torque it back down when I was done. Of course I bought a replacement belt, since I'm sure this one is now a few inches longer lol. But I do keep it with my tools as a strap wrench if I need it again (which I eventually did). And yes, I did have a 2nd breaker bar handy to actually break the bolt loose while the other one was serving strap wrench duty, which helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Just open the access panel to the bellhousing and use a long extension and I believe a 14mm socket (going by memory, may be 12mm) and use one of the flex plate bolts to lock it in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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