Alternative to Lockers

[Methfinder]

After being depressed over the $1000 price tag for one ARB locker, I decided to do a little research so that I might discover a relatively cheap traction aid device. I can't seem to find any type of locker that's cheap, and my pathy doesn't have traction control. LSD seems highly controversial. It works, but you can't turn it off. It turns out, a surprisingly little known trick in the wheeling world is simply tapping the brakes to briefly give power and traction to that wheel spinning in the mud, ice, sand, or snow. This kinda works. It works much better when you can apply your braking power to just one wheel, more effectively diverting the power where it's needed. I figured a cutting brake would work for this, and it's no where near as expensive or complicated as installing ARB lockers. I'm not saying it's a replacement, but it seems to be the cheapest fix to my traction dilema. It would aslo be cool to turn on a dime like a skid steer. I'm not the first to think of this though, not by a long shot. Tractors have been using this idea for years. Jeep finally caught on, and is now using something similiar as a cheap alternative for the Patriot. they use an electronic braking system that works automatically. Check out the video:

I've seen and read enough evidence to convince me it works. Pretty soon I'll be doing another short build thread letting everyone know how it goes. I'm eager to do a little testing of my own. My guess is that using a manual traction aid device, like cutting brakes, will take some getting used to, possibly even some skill if I want to stay moving while driving up something. anyhow, let me know what you all think.

[Leo94]

Maybe even modifying your park brake so you have 2 park brake levers one for each side. You could have the one in the center console and also add on the hb style one.

[Slartibartfast]

Two E-brakes would probably be the simplest to build, but I imagine it'd be a PITA to use. Specifically, I'd expect the ratchet mechanism to leave you dragging a wheel when something else (steering, shifting, operating something else) distracts you. You could disable the ratchet mechanism, but then they're no good as parking brakes. Add some kind of on/off for the ratchet... but then you're still banging your knuckles against one handle or the other, and you have to release one and grab the other to change sides. Seems a little cumbersome.

 

My stupid idea is to take the stock e-brake, bolt it to a separate plate, and hook that plate to the floor with a pivot. Leave the stock cable alone. Then, you'd hook new cables to the sides of it, route them underneath the car, and hook one into each leg of the factory system. So, you're driving, and say your right rear wheel looses grip. You grab the e-brake, and shove it to the right. It pulls the cable, the wheel slows, ta da. Need to do something else? Let go, it'll pop back to the center. (If it doesn't, add a spring or two.) And, since the stock cables and ratchet mechanism are still there, you can still use it like a regular brake.

 

Here's a crude line drawing. (New cable is in blue.) The arrangement on the left makes more sense (no stupid pulleys), though it may prove more difficult given the width of the console.

 

(It says 'spliced to stock,' but the pen was dying.)

 

This seems more user-friendly to me. Of course, you'd have to butcher your console a bit, but it's not like you wouldn't have to with two handles.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Slartibartfast

[The_Magicians_Eye]

I'm 100% sure a cheap cutting brake would be way easier, cheaper, and more reliable than trying to do this.

[JamesRich]

Or you could buy a cheap lockright and let it do all this for you.

James

[Mr.510]

I ran three E-brake levers in my Baja'd '71 Datsun 1200 sedan before welding the rear diff. Braking one wheel sorta works, but not as well as you'd think and is a major PITA to use effectively. I welded the diff in that car less than a month after building the triple brake lever setup.

 

If you have an LSD you can effectively tighten it by putting the stock E-brake on pretty hard. By increasing the drag at the wheels you are effectively "winding up" the LSD and increasing the load against the clutch plates. This actually works pretty well and is probably the reason the E-brake shoes are worn out on most Pathies that have been wheeled. Just pulling up on the E-brake on an open diff can help some, but no where near as much as with an LSD.

 

At the moment I'm running a shimmed stock LSD in my Pathy but it's too tight and is effectively locked on dry pavement, making it a spool. To say it's sketchy in the rain with a spool out back and no sway bars would be a serious understatement.

 

A Lock Right is $300 and I'll be getting one very soon. I suggest you do the same.

[Precise1]

A split hand brake system is a standard modification in the dunebuggy world and is pretty simple to use only you get used to it. Yes, it would work to some degree as well as simply using the foot brake to get more out of the rear end. That is a trick used by open diff cars and trucks for about 50 years.

 

It really depends what you are using your rig for to determine what degree of traction device you want to get. ARBs are great but pricey, lock-rites are economical but can't be turned off and can be questionable in ice and snow, LSD is the most streetable but can strand you off road if you lift a wheel and the 1 legged ponys are for the mall.

 

B

[nismothunder]

50 years? This has been around since the first conventinal axled tractor was built.

[Precise1]

Don't drive tractors or follow their history...

 

B

[nismothunder]

Well they were the first true all-terrain mode of wheeled transportation.

 

Look at them (beyond the big AG tires) and see how they have truely made a diffrence in the automotive world. Oh yeah, Unimogs are tractors.

[JamesRich]

I got my lockright here. http://rocky-road.com/lockright.html

They list for $270 on their page but I called them and they gave it to me for $250.

James

[Leo94]

I got my lockright here. http://rocky-road.com/lockright.html

They list for $270 on their page but I called them and they gave it to me for $250.

James

Postage from there is $194/$131 to Australia

Edited April 6, 2012 by Leo94

[Methfinder]

Two E-brakes would probably be the simplest to build, but I imagine it'd be a PITA to use. Specifically, I'd expect the ratchet mechanism to leave you dragging a wheel when something else (steering, shifting, operating something else) distracts you. You could disable the ratchet mechanism, but then they're no good as parking brakes. Add some kind of on/off for the ratchet... but then you're still banging your knuckles against one handle or the other, and you have to release one and grab the other to change sides. Seems a little cumbersome.

 

My stupid idea is to take the stock e-brake, bolt it to a separate plate, and hook that plate to the floor with a pivot. Leave the stock cable alone. Then, you'd hook new cables to the sides of it, route them underneath the car, and hook one into each leg of the factory system. So, you're driving, and say your right rear wheel looses grip. You grab the e-brake, and shove it to the right. It pulls the cable, the wheel slows, ta da. Need to do something else? Let go, it'll pop back to the center. (If it doesn't, add a spring or two.) And, since the stock cables and ratchet mechanism are still there, you can still use it like a regular brake.

 

Here's a crude line drawing. (New cable is in blue.) The arrangement on the left makes more sense (no stupid pulleys), though it may prove more difficult given the width of the console.

 

(It says 'spliced to stock,' but the pen was dying.)

 

This seems more user-friendly to me. Of course, you'd have to butcher your console a bit, but it's not like you wouldn't have to with two handles.

That's a pretty cool idea. If done right, it could be a slick way to make good use of the parking brake, and no extra levers! It would be even better to make the side to side motion work with hydraulics, and the up and down motion mechanical for the parking brake. I believe that would require some extensive work though. If I do this, I think i'm going to go the easy way and setup the cutting brake with a separate lever. I just have to figure out where to put the dumb thing so I don't accidentally hit it going down the interstate.

[Methfinder]

A split hand brake system is a standard modification in the dunebuggy world and is pretty simple to use only you get used to it. Yes, it would work to some degree as well as simply using the foot brake to get more out of the rear end. That is a trick used by open diff cars and trucks for about 50 years.

 

It really depends what you are using your rig for to determine what degree of traction device you want to get. ARBs are great but pricey, lock-rites are economical but can't be turned off and can be questionable in ice and snow, LSD is the most streetable but can strand you off road if you lift a wheel and the 1 legged ponys are for the mall.

 

B

I don't know. I think it would be better than the foot brake trick since i would only be locking up one wheel, instead of all 4. I've been using that trick a lot lately, and it only seems to help a little, if at all. Most of the time I have to back down and get another run at it.

[Methfinder]

A split hand brake system is a standard modification in the dunebuggy world and is pretty simple to use only you get used to it. Yes, it would work to some degree as well as simply using the foot brake to get more out of the rear end. That is a trick used by open diff cars and trucks for about 50 years.

 

It really depends what you are using your rig for to determine what degree of traction device you want to get. ARBs are great but pricey, lock-rites are economical but can't be turned off and can be questionable in ice and snow, LSD is the most streetable but can strand you off road if you lift a wheel and the 1 legged ponys are for the mall.

 

B

I will eventually put ARB lockers in, front and rear. But I figure it won't hurt to try the cutting brake system first. After all, once I buy the lockers, I will still have cutting brakes for their intended purpose, and cutting brakes are just cool. so cutting brakes, front locker, then rear locker in that order. Then I can post videos comparing the three separately. I can't seem to find videos like that anywhere. FYI, emphasis on "eventually". I am broke right now, so this is going to take me a while.