Slartibartfast Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The nice thing with a mechanical CVT vs a fluid torque converter is that you don't have the high friction losses. I started looking at Constantinesco's design from the 20s, but lately I've been looking more at the Lester, which I don't understand quite as well but doesn't rely on pendulums, which sounds like a step in the right direction. I like the idea of the toroidal setup but can't help wondering how much power it'll pass, and how long until it loses its shine and starts slipping. Around here, energy is from hydroelectric, so it's a little greener. I know a guy with a little electric car, says he spends maybe $400 a year to keep it charged. Of course, it won't top 35, the range is limited, and the batteries only last a few years being deep-cycled like that... the technology's got a long way to go to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think, for passenger cars, CVTs are the next big thing. Automatic transmissions as we know them will eventually disappear, because CVTs can keep better engine profiles at all speeds. As electronically-controlled mechanical couplings become cheaper, the fluid torque converter will also disappear, yielding a highly-efficient automatic that has greater acceleration capabilities than any manual transmission is capable of providing. Of course, we're moving to eliminate the driver at this point, but there is potential for great things with this sort of technology. Regardless, EVs just aren't there yet, I think we're all in agreement. Also, Slartibartfast, don't be so sure, immediately, that your energy is produced through hydroelectric. Some of it may be, but most areas still rely very highly on fossil fuel electricity generation, even with alternatives in place, because they're less energy efficient. Officially, a few percent of the power provided by my electricity provider is Wind and Solar, 5 or 6% is Hydroelectric, 18% is Nuclear, and the rest is coal/natural gas. So, while TXU puts "Green Power" on their advertising, only a few percent is actually from "alternatives". I was shocked to find out how much was nuclear, to be honest, but I knew we relied on coal for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Schizo when I first heard TXU advertise the "green energy plan" or whatever they call it on the radio I thought wow. Pay more and feel better about yourself. What a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Schizo when I first heard TXU advertise the "green energy plan" or whatever they call it on the radio I thought wow. Pay more and feel better about yourself. What a joke Oh yeah. What we ended up doing is getting a fixed-rate contract with them at like $0.11/kwh which was cheaper than Reliant, Oncor, and the various smaller providers in the area. Fskc cares if we're going green, we're saving a bit of money. (Which is in turn going to pay for the air conditioner we had to get last April, because our old one broke, and it's impossible to live without one in Texas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I like the idea of the toroidal setup but can't help wondering how much power it'll pass, and how long until it loses its shine and starts slipping. It can pass much more power than any automatic on the market can and that's for sure. There is no stupid torque converter to explode or clutches to burn. Then the transmission has a near infinite amount of gear ratios and can easily travel to the ratio that provides the minimum amount of slippage while providing the most amount of power. With the combination of the right metals, this transmission can be extremely low maintenance and highly wear resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 ^From what I know, I'd have to agree with him. There are a lot of other issues, but ultimately it seems like it is up to material science to make it possible. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Point. I do appreciate its simplicity. I guess it does come down to the materials used... and how well the control computer works. Also, I looked it up, and 3/4 of Washington's power is hydro. I'm a few hours drive from several large dams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 With the combination of the right metals, this transmission can be extremely low maintenance and highly wear resistant. Yeah. I bet that combination of right metals would end up making a $15000 transmission. Also, I looked it up, and 3/4 of Washington's power is hydro. Rain doesn't count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Since when are you a metalurgist? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Why would a businessman need to know anything about metallurgy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Why would a businessman need to know anything about metallurgy? He wouldn't. What he would need to know is cost of production versus demand. If the projected demand price doesn't exceed the cost of production, he won't authorize production. If it does, however, he'll do what he can to profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Why would a businessman need to know anything about metallurgy? We aren't talking about a business man, we are talking about you and how you determine the $15,000 price tag due to materials cost. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yeah. I bet that combination of right metals would end up making a $15000 transmission. First of all, do you know how much an automatic transmission costs? Do you know how complicated it is compared to a toroidal CVT? Second, that is not the final version but only a scale model. I am pretty sure that the transmission can be downsized to fit into an actual vehicle and save on materials. Third, even if you make those disks out of tool steel, which is very expensive steel (chrome vanadium), it will still be relatively inexpensive due to its simplicity. In my opinion, automatic transmissions need to GTFO already. They are inefficient, heavy, cumbersome, create a lot heat, and need to be serviced way too much. The newer 8 speed transmissions just add fuel to the fire in terms of their disadvantages. Yes they work but that doesn't mean they are effective. I guess for what they are, they're not too bad and have got much better over the years but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for better alternatives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 In my opinion, automatic transmissions need to GTFO already. They are inefficient, heavy, cumbersome, create a lot heat, and need to be serviced way too much. The newer 8 speed transmissions just add fuel to the fire in terms of their disadvantages. Yes they work but that doesn't mean they are effective. I guess for what they are, they're not too bad and have got much better over the years but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for better alternatives. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm calling 1994SEV6 out. This guy talks out his ass more than I do. Anyway, what Tungsten (dense metal) said. Simplicity of design reduces cost significantly. The major cost of automatic transmissions is not the additional mass they carry, but the complexity of manufacture. It requires far more in terms of design, tooling, and training to get an automagic into your car, than it does to do a manual transmission. Even more so for a TCVT, which has 4 moving parts. Even a 5-speed has 20-something gears, dogs, and linkages. When you consider the 5-speed requires small gears with high strength, and have a relatively high complexity of design, you must note how expensive it is to produce. The TCVT has a small number of parts that don't rely on anything more than friction to create difference. The servos to actuate the friction plates are cheap, there is no need for linkages, minimal need for lubricants and their circulation mechanisms. It falls to friction material and electronic controls to make up the rest of the way to completion. There are a number of friction materials available for this application, so that leaves the computers. This is the fun part, but also the least expensive part. A college computer science major could write the algorithm to control a transmission that simple. Frankly, there is no cost to justify massively expensive TCVT prices, so they will be sold as cheaply as automatic transmissions, and only because they are a premium addition, otherwise, profit could still be made at lower price points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tungsten is pretty dense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 that's my favorite metal of all metals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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