Alkorahil Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Is the exhaust white or a visible color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Oil Pressure is good on the truck, sitting high until she starts to warm up then the engine starts actin up.. Is it at around 3-5 minutes after a cold start that it starts acting up? If so it could be when the ECU goes into closed loop which would be an O2 sensor problem which can cause it to sputter and complain. Edited July 21, 2011 by Alkorahil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 I wasnt thinking it was the oil pump either after troubleshooting. I should point out some of the things Ive noticed thus far, when I changed the coolant, I noticed that there was some clay looking stuff in the BRAND NEW radiator, which gave me reason to believe that the previous owner had the JDM engine installed and had to use some head gasket sealer. I changed the fluid thinking it was nothing significant, but upon changing it, the radiator without the cap off had significant back pressure, which also gave me another reason to believe the head gasket was shot. I changed it regardless thinking it was nothing STILL.. Every time Ive started the truck up its had white smoke out of the tail pipe.. I started it the day after it popped the light, and it was around a minute or two that it started acting up like it wanted to die.. Everything Ive been reading is the head gasket is the main cause, but I STILL dont want to believe it, regardless Im changing it out this weekend and praying that is the problem. I also checked my codes today on the ECU, it flashed only code 13, which was 'Engine Temp Sensor Malfunction'.. If anyone has any input or guidance past what Ive stated, any help is GREATLY appreciated, and the help thus far has gone a long way, thank you everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Engine temp sensor could definitely be causing your issues. A few people have had that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 The engine temp sensor alone would cause my idle problem though? This guy has info on head gaskets and recommends Nissan OEM. RedZ31The head gasket info is near the bottom of the page.With this being said, I used felpro gaskets on a 3.3 in my wife's quest van and they have been holding up fine for 30k. I always spray head gaskets with copper coat though. I used the felpro because I did the job before I started researching VG motors.James Damn you James, Ive not got the time to order those Victor Reinz or OEM, let alone do I know where to find em.. Making me second guess my Fel-Pro's =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Is it at around 3-5 minutes after a cold start that it starts acting up? If so it could be when the ECU goes into closed loop which would be an O2 sensor problem which can cause it to sputter and complain. I wonder if that is it, if it was wouldnt the ECU have thrown that code though? Edited July 21, 2011 by feyded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Engine temp sensor could definately cause some issues. This sensor is supposed to tell the ECU what the time of the coolant is. That way the ECU and wither richen up or lean out the fuel mixture. This sensor is resistance/heat based. It may be worth pulling it out, cleaning it(no harsh chemicals) and reinstalling it. If there is some mechanic-in-a-can stuck to it, it may cause it to read incorreclty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I wonder if that is it, if it was wouldnt the ECU have thrown that code though? Unfortunatly, early OBD systems were not that sensitive to parts misbehaving. More or less, they wanted to see a short or open in the circuit before they flick the light on. This is not the case with everything, but is with some. Just for reference.... Edited July 21, 2011 by 5523Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Awesome, you guys are great at troubleshooting things that arent in front of ya, Im going to replace the sensor tomorrow and see how it goes.. Any input on IF the head gasket might be shot(based on what I said), guess it makes sense to start small first(found that out on my F-150), I just figured everything was pointing toward that being the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well, the best way to get to the bottom of it, is to do some testing. You can pull the spark plugs and see if any buildup has occured. A cylinder leakdown test or a block tester(to see if exhaust is coming through the cooling system) can be sued to diagnois a possilbe headgasket. Also look for discolored oil and coolant in case they have mixed. If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber, you may see white "smoke" from your exhaust. This would happen alot, not just during and after startup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Well, the best way to get to the bottom of it, is to do some testing. You can pull the spark plugs and see if any buildup has occured. A cylinder leakdown test or a block tester(to see if exhaust is coming through the cooling system) can be sued to diagnois a possilbe headgasket. Also look for discolored oil and coolant in case they have mixed. If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber, you may see white "smoke" from your exhaust. This would happen alot, not just during and after startup. What you listed is kind of what I was figuring, Ill probably check the plugs when I tear it apart to make sure they are good. Someone also told me another way to see if there is back pressure in the cooling system from the exhaust without taking off the radiator cap; if you check your overflow apparently if it is bubbling then there is back pressure. Ive checked my fluids and neither of which are discolored, also the smoke is just during startup, so Im guessing my gasket leak is leaking exhaust into the cooling system. Also, 'cylinder head temp sensor' is the engine temp sensor correct? Edited July 22, 2011 by feyded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The engine temp sensor alone would cause my idle problem though? Damn you James, Ive not got the time to order those Victor Reinz or OEM, let alone do I know where to find em.. Making me second guess my Fel-Pro's =p Spray the felpros with copper coat, my quest 3.3 has been holding up like that for at least 30k now. My wife rolls the @!*% out of that van too, she spends more on gas in that van than I spend on my Titan, pathy, and boulevard combined. She is toting the kids around though so I don't say much about it. My pathy is an 87 too, when my temp sensor went bad it really ran like crap. But if you are getting pressure in the radiator and white smoke out the tailpipe you probably have a head gasket problem. The temp switch on an 87 is a pain to change by its self so get one now to change when you have the heads off. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I totally agree, change the temp sensor. It needs it regardless, change it first and it may clear up all your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 What you listed is kind of what I was figuring, Ill probably check the plugs when I tear it apart to make sure they are good. Someone also told me another way to see if there is back pressure in the cooling system from the exhaust without taking off the radiator cap; if you check your overflow apparently if it is bubbling then there is back pressure. Ive checked my fluids and neither of which are discolored, also the smoke is just during startup, so Im guessing my gasket leak is leaking exhaust into the cooling system. Also, 'cylinder head temp sensor' is the engine temp sensor correct? Yes, the Head temp sensor is the engine temp sensor. Dont get confused with the temp gauge sensor, thats for yoru dash gauge. The other is for the ECM. Yes, you can check for bubbles in the cooling system, but are you sure the bubbles are spent exhaust? Thats what a Block Tester is for. It will discolor if exhaust gases are present. I would still pull the sensor and test it. Drop it in a cup of hot water with a multimeter attached. IIRC, resistance should decrease as temp goes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) So I changed the temp sensor(since I had already bought it) and most of my problems went away, except for one. The engine never warms up.. the needle moves from the C and sits on literally the first line(there are only 3 lines for the gauge). My next guess now is the thermostat is shot now.. I just hope that I didnt blow a gasket or make it worse since it seems like it just overheated. The coolant in the radiator never started running like a stream, as a matter of fact it rose at random times, without me touching the accelerator. My next guess is to swap the thermostat and then fill it with water and see where it goes from there.. I called around, and does anyone think the 'Fail safe' thermostat's are worth the extra money? 5523Pathfinder, I cant get the vehicle anywhere to test for that, unless there is another way.. I live 30ish miles out of town. Thanks again everyone for all the help. Edited July 22, 2011 by feyded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Either your thermostat on the temperature sensor for the gauge. It's right next to the coolant temp sensor for the ECU, so you might have knocked it or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 If he is getting white smoke at startup maybe it is the thermostat stuck open. Do the rad hoses get really really hot or can you hold your hand on them? I know when mine was gone I could still hold my hand on the hoses even in the middle of summer because it never heated up all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) If he is getting white smoke at startup maybe it is the thermostat stuck open. Do the rad hoses get really really hot or can you hold your hand on them? I know when mine was gone I could still hold my hand on the hoses even in the middle of summer because it never heated up all the way. Why would a stuck thermostat give white smoke? Maybe "grey," normal smoke from a too-cold engine? Edited July 22, 2011 by sewebster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I let the truck idle for a good 15-20 mins, and I could touch the top radiator hose(for a few seconds), AND there wasnt any pressure I could feel from it. Also I had the radiator cap off, the fluid never started to stream through the radiator, it just sat. The white smoke isnt there at all Ive noticed, its just on start up like 5523Pathfinder was saying, I'd apparently notice the billowing white smoke if it was a head gasket blown that way. Edited July 22, 2011 by feyded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sounds like you should replace your thermostat and see what happens next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyded Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yeh I had to come in and get ready for work and update my progress and see if nayone else had any input(LOVE how helpful this place is). Ill be swapping it tomorrow morning and see where that gets me. I'm getting antsy, It feels like Im getting closer to being able to drive her again! Once again everyone, thanks thanks thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yeah, double check the sensor for the gauge and make sure you didnt know it off somehow. As the engine warms up, you should be able to touch the radiator hoses(when warm), but not really keep your hand there. If the Thermostat is stuck closed, one hose will get much hotter than the other. Do you know when, or if, the thermostat has been replaced? Its a easy job and you can drain the cooling system and refill with new fluid while you are at it. Sounds like you are getting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Unfortunatly, early OBD systems were not that sensitive to parts misbehaving. More or less, they wanted to see a short or open in the circuit before they flick the light on. This is not the case with everything, but is with some. Exactly, i have seen this many times on the 3.0L engine. The computer looks for under or overvolt as stated already. nominial IIRC is 0.5V with +/- 0.2V allowed within paramters. As conditions change the signal fluctuates tot eh ECU up and down between 0.3V and 0.7V providing input the the ECU to trim or rich the air/fuel mixture. I have seen many that have failed where they are 'stuck' reading 0.5V constantly so the ECU registers this as ok and doesnt throw a light and keep on trucking down the road running like crap and failing emissions tests..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Nissan has always been very "tight" with the parameters set during engineering. Even today, we do reprograms that basicly widen those parameters and everything is fine. Things are way more touchy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Oh yeah, that temp sensor for the gauge may have issues as well. I usually try and replace both as a precaution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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