Looking At '97 And '98S - Good Choice?

[Mercfan]

Hi everyone -

 

New member here in Denver, CO.

 

I got tired of looking at Toyota 4Runners... they are waaay overpriced in my area. Started looking at Pathfinders just this week - they look like nice vehicles that may just fit my needs. Looking for something to take me to my favorite fishing spots here in CO. Looking for something with a capable 4x4 (won't be doing anything crazy). Something with reasonable MPGs (i.e. low 20s would be great).

 

Found a couple of Pathfinders in my area - here are the ads:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2141709901.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2172125733.html

 

Is this a good generation in terms of reliability and performance? Are they DIY friendly (replacing basic components and doing basic maintenance)? Is the V6 pretty capable to moving this truck around even up some passes we have around here?! Don't wanna win any races but don't want to have to be in a slow lane at 40mph the whole way up either...

 

What is a typical mileage on these vehicles (unmodified).

 

Any comments, guidance will be appreciated. The Toyota forums gave me tips to focus on years '96 and higher because of the improved 4.3L V6 - I'm looking to get similar recommendations from the members here if possible.

 

THx,

James in Denver, CO

[Pezzy]

I believe the pathfinder will suit your needs well.... you're not the only one who has started looking at the 4runners, to end up looking at the pathy, simply because of budget.

 

The R50 pathfinder (96-2004) should be capable in stock form to get you through some minor offroad areas. If you end up looking into modifications, tires will get you far... from there it depends on whether you need the extra height of a lift, or protection (skidplates, sliders) - to drag your low rider over rocks offroad!

 

My pathy is a pig these days, but I did get close to what they advertise (16mpg hwy/18mpg city) when it was unmodified, and a few years younger.

 

You can definitely maintain the pathy yourself, many members here do so, and are willing to help if you run into issues. There is also a number of 'how to' threads to help you out.

 

You will notice some differences between the different years of the R50 pathfinder. Looks wise the 96-99 is what you are looking at, they updated the grille, hood, hatch & bumpers in 99.5. The 96-00 (someone correct me if I am wrong) has the 3.3 VG engine, and in 01 they changed over the 3.5 VQ engine. I understand the 3.5 has more power, but both are very reliable. Somewhere around that time they also introduced ALL MODE in addition to 2 hi, 4 hi & 4 low. (Again, someone correct me if I am wrong.)

 

If you are looking at one with the 3.3, make sure to ask about when the timing belt was done, as they do need to be serviced regularly.

 

Good look with your search!

[Mercfan]

I believe the pathfinder will suit your needs well....

Very good info - thanks a lot! Keep it comin'...

[Howie]

I agree with everything Pezzy said. I own an '01 Pathfinder with the 3.5L VQ engine. The VQ has a timing chain, not belt, so it doesn't need replacing. I think the VQ is a better engine than the VG. It's got more horsepower (does great on inclines and even towing) and has been extremely reliable for me. I got mine new, and have done oil changes religiously, so YMMV getting a used one that might have had shoddy maintenance. However, as covered in a recent thread here, if you like modifying your engine with turbos and stuff you might want to get the VG, because it's got more tolerance for that sort of thing. The VQ is in the '01 to '04 model years. I'm biased of course, but I think the '05 to present model sucks. It's not as nice as the R50's.

 

I have seen over 20 mpg in my Pathy, but only on very long road trips where I'd go for stretches of 8 hours on the highway. Otherwise, I get about 15-16 in daily driving. I have a 20-25 minute commute. I have a 1.5" lift on it which probably cuts my mileage down a bit. When I lived in L.A. I had a 6 minute commute, and my mileage sucked at 14 mpg. Also, 4WD, which you definitely want to get, costs you about 1 mpg from the 2WD version. Not sure how much the Warn hubs add back, but some say it's like 2-3 mpg.

 

So anyway, I recommend you find yourself an '01-'04 Pathfinder with 4WD and put Warn hubs on it. Get nice tires like Pezzy said, and you won't even need a lift to get you where you want to go. If you want to tow heavy stuff, you have to get the automatic transmission. I have the manual, because I think it's more fun to drive.

 

--Howie

[tekazgtr1984]

Great information posted so far. This forum doesn't kick too much butt or anything...

 

Speaking from my own experience, I've had the chance to own two R50s, one being a '98 Pathfinder and the other is my current rig, a '01 Infiniti QX4. The differences between the two are negligible at best; the newer models are more well-equipped but I wouldn't let that be a determining factor in your decision.

 

First off, the '98 Pathfinder is a great SUV. It's well-built, well-balanced in terms of handling vs. power, capability vs. practicality, etc. The VG33E is a veritable tank of a motor, the only "weak" point being the timing belt. I use the term loosely because it's hardly a concern if you maintain a vehicle properly. The timing belt is said to last 100K miles so it's not like it's something that has to be changed frequently. It is a pretty tedious job but do it once and the next time is a breeze. The O2 sensors on the pre '99.5 R50s are also known to fail, so be mindful of that when shopping. Otherwise, for a 3.3L SOHC motor it's got plenty of low-end torque and sufficient power for day-to-day use. A few simple mods will help output, too. All in all, keep the motor happy and it'll reward you with reliability and durability that will last for many years and many miles. The transmission on the '98 is also very reliable, and works well with the manual transfer case. Again, basic maintenance will keep both working without a hitch. If you plan on going off the pavement, I'd recommend a XE or SE model with the 4.636:1 differential. It's a bit more thirsty but it's got some added pep from a standstill compared to the 4.363:1 diff found in some XE and all LE models (keep in mind, these differentials affect the whole range from '96-'04). Other things to look for when buying are rear control arm bushings. These tend to crap out, especially on a 13-year old vehicle and can lead to the dreaded "death wobble" at higher speeds. However, bushings are relatively affordable and there are some good aftermarket options out there made of much more durable material. As for rust, I don't think any pre-2004 Japanese-imported vehicle is not susceptible to this sad reality. Being from MB, my '98 had quite a bit, the worst being the rear quater panel where the "body" is connected to the "frame" and the spring perch for the rear axle. I'm not sure if this will be a concern down in CO but it's something to look for when you're shopping.

Overall, the pre-facelift R50 is a great SUV and when compared to higher-priced 4Runners, it's a way better option. I'm not sure what differences exist between the '97 and '98 but I'm sure they're minimal at best.

Damn, that was reminiscent...

 

As for the newer model R50s (a.k.a., facelift model), you get different bumpers, grill, hood, and headlights on the VG-equipped ones ('99.5-'00). Besides these superficial changes, it's the same vehicle as the '96-'99 R50s. The engine change took place for the '01 R50, which has the VQ35DE. This is a DOHC, aluminum block engine using a timing chain, as opposed to the SOHC, iron block engine with timing belt in the VG33E. From a purely performance standpoint, the VQ is the superior engine out of the box. Keep in mind I say out of the box, because I'd take a boosted VG34E over a VQ35DE any day of the week.

I'd also consider the VQ35DE to be more of a maintenace hog. My QX4 is just over 131K km (~80K miles) and I had to replace the MAF sensor, something I never did on my '98 even though it was nearly at 200K km (~120K miles). Also, after around 100K miles, the VQ is known to start burning oil. I think this only applies to the asshats who fail to keep up with maintenance, though. Oil changes are important on both engines but I'd say even moreso on the VQ. Keep in mind, the VQ is more performance-oriented engine so it will naturally require more upkeep than the VG, which I'd consider more of a workhorse engine. As far as fuel economy is concerned, I say both are about the same, 16-18 city and 20-21 highway. Of course, this depends on your driving style. My '98 was relatively modified and I was still able to push 15 city and 19 highway.

The All-Mode transfer case was offered on the '01-up Pathfinder LE and Infinity QX4 (IIRC, someone correct if I'm wrong) and utilizes wheel speed sensors up front to provide a kind-of AWD system for use on slippery roads, snow, etc. It also allows for 4x4 just like the manual lever transfer case but offers a lower range gear when employing 4LO. I've used both and like them equally in terms of 4x4 capability; the All-Mode AWD is nice in winter up here in the GWN, though.

 

So there you have it, pretty much all you need to know about the R50 Pathfinder. If you have plans to modify, you'll find this forum to be the single best online resource there is. Good luck with your purchase!

Edited January 26, 2011 by tekazgtr1984

[adamzan]

You should have no problems driving in the mountains with either model. With a 5 speed the VG33E is a great engine. I've seen people literally beat the crap out of them and they just keep on going with minimal maintenance. The auto tranny is good and reliable but you can utilize the power better with a manual IMO. FWIW I have 345,000kms on my VG30E (pretty much the same motor) and it doesn't even lose a drop of oil. I have not had that much experience with the vq35 other than what I've read on here and with my mothers 05 maxima.

[pathfounder]

I am very happy with my '97, save for a few things.

 

For one, the mileage I get is pretty bad. I average around 11-13 mpg, except for exclusively highway runs where I can get "up to" 17 mpg. This is with no CEL or driveability problems.

 

My engine has a front main seal leak, which luckily does not affect the timing belt, but does leave a ton of spots on my driveway.

 

The corrosion of visible bodywork is pretty amazing, I'd say worse than average. Luckily, the places that count are not rusty.

 

The 4-speed auto hunts a lot around 70km/h (40 mph). I think the 5-speed manual would be a better choice.

 

The road manners are better than a WD21 by a fair bit, and likely better than a 4Runner, but the offroad capability is limited because of the use of struts up front. I describe the R50s as "highly capable soft-roaders".

 

I would say that many repairs are not DIY friendly. A code reader is a must, but a full diagnostic laptop arrangement would be better. The engine is really wedged in there and hard to work on. Non-engine related repairs are easy though, just as easy as my 1982 Chevy.

 

I think that's it. I'd recommend one to anybody that can live with the small faults.

Edited January 26, 2011 by pathfounder

[nunya]

not being a car50 person I can't give you much input other than it seems the primary causes of death to them seems to be other drivers and that people seem to be rather pleased with them from everything starting at mpg whore urban runners to whooped to hell and back trail pounders (that generally double as the way to work Mon-Fri)

 

as for the Toyota people sayin 96+, they were steering you away from the 3vz-e 3.0 (affectionatly known as the 3.slow)... supposedly you have to be intelegent or rich to maintian them... (2 strikes as I can keep one running )and yea... they definatly have a high resale for some odd reason. Good luck on your search and heres to you snaggin a deal and hangin around!

[BowTied]

Not much to add, Pezzy and Ty coverd the later R50s well. I'll just expand a little:

 

The Automode transfer case is identifiable by the selector switch below the radio vs. the shift lever for the standard tcase. The Automode in 2Hi 4Hi and 4Lo work just like the standard tcase but also has an automatic mode. This mode runs in 2wd until rear wheel slip is detected and then engages power to the front axle. This is accomplished by a wet clutch system inside the tcase - note the front axle is live all the time, no hubs to engage or worry about. I have seen the automode in all trim levels here though it is more common with Auto trans and in SE/LE models.

 

Maintenance on the VQ - only thing I have done is to check the tightness on the power valve screws. A small percentage of automatic trans 3.5L trucks have engine failures due to the power valve screws comine loose. Not too hard to fix.

 

I beleive the 03-04 3.5s are drive by wire throttle (anyone confirm this?)

 

Pathfounder compared the maintenance to an 80s Chevy. Might be true on 3.3L, but the 3.5s I don't think so, though there are some trade-offs. The VQ3.5 has no distributor or spark plug wires, so no maintenance there. However the plugs are a little harder to get at and are expensive. The alternator is at the bottom of the engine bay vs the top for a chevy. The front disc brake rotors are big deal to remove and replace vs. a chevy rotor which comes off after removing the caliper bracket.

 

Last point for now: If you are tall and used to north american vehciles, the pathfinder will seem small. I am only 6'1" and have little headroom. The rear hatch catches me in the forehead (good reason for a lift!!) and the seat bases are a little shorter than I would like. These rigs don't have a tilt steering wheel, they have a tilt steering column which compared to the tilt in an 80s or 90s Blazer is no where near as nice. However I find these shortcomings are made up for in reduce maintenance requirements, less sqeaks and rattles, and generally less drama to drive.

 

HTH.

[Der_Vier]

OP what'd you decide on?

[laxman0324]

Probably a little late but here is my piece since I have owned a 97 and an 01.

 

I got slightly better mileage with the 97 but the gearing is higher in the 01 since it is a 5 speed. The 01 has a lot more power and handles and brakes a little better, but these are minor. The style for the 97 is more rugged where the 01 is more of a stylish road going SUV (I know the front bumper sits an inch or so lower than on the 97). The biggest difference other than the motor is the interior styling/quality. The 01 is worlds ahead of the 97 for interior styling making it a much nicer place to be.

 

BUT I did love my 97 and would still be driving it had the 01 with a 5 speed not fell into my lap.

[clkindred]

DENVARRR! Not to far from me.

My 98 with the VG33E got about 21MPG highway 18MPG city before my 31 inch tires. Now I get about 16MPG city and I don't know about highway because I don't drive I-25 much anymore.

 

Enclosed is a pic to help you choose.

[Towncivilian]

In my case, my R50 is my first vehicle. It was previously my mother's car and was maintained well enough, we've owned it since new. I'm uncertain of some of its maintenance history, but other than a slow rear main seal leak, a couple bad camshaft position sensors (which caused a constant CEL for something like 3 years), and a leaky A/C low pressure hose, it's been free of issues so far to the best of my knowledge. I've been doing quite a bit of preventative maintenance (fluid changes, new spark plugs [although I didn't find the record that they were replaced at 90k miles until after changing them, so I uselessly spent $70 on plugs and 5 hours of time], filters, etc...) and nothing's been awfully difficult so far. It helps that I'm small enough to crawl underneath the car without jacking anything up - if I remove the spare tire, I can sit upright underneath the trunk. Currently at 122k miles, and I see no reason why this Pathfinder won't make it to 200k. Very little rust (Florida's good about that). The only real complaint I have is the fuel economy; I can squeeze 300 miles to a tank (~17.35mpg, 95% city driving, no A/C), but generally get around 250 with operation of A/C and some spirited driving. What can I expect from something that has the aerodynamic grace of a Coke machine, though? I'd quite happily buy another R50, and likely a WD21 or D21 (Hardbody) too, and pretty much any Nissan for that matter. I'm not too fond of the R51 (2005+) body style however.