ahardb0dy Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 My buddy just got a 87 Ford F-150 4x4 with the 4.9 six in it, it was his brothers and was up in North Carolina, and the truck hasn't really run in 3 years. when he went up to get the truck they got it running but after shutting it off to change the battery it wouldn't start again. He says when he tries to start it the starter sounds like it is dragging, this is when the engine is cold, (as he hasn't had it running long enough yet to get hot !!), He had the started tested and the store said it was fine. Today he told me that the negative battery cable goes from the battery straight down to the starter and no where else, this doesn't sound right to me. I would think there should be a ground running from the negative at least to the inner fender or frame?? If the starter is grounded to the battery and I guess it would be grounded to the engine being bolted to it, but if the engine has rubber mounts, which I think it should, than there has to be other places that the engine is grounded. I tried to pull up the neg cable on rockauto but it didn't show any pics, Any one know if the way this negative cable is run sounds right? Do you think if it had better grounds it may allow the starter to turn faster? battery has just been charged also. THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Nismothunder should be along shortly... Today he told me that the negative battery cable goes from the battery straight down to the starter and no where else, this doesn't sound right to me. I would think there should be a ground running from the negative at least to the inner fender or frame?? No, this is bad. There should be a chassis/frame ground. For a quick fix, ground the negative terminal to the frame/motor (is attached to the tranny after all) with jumper cables and see if it helps. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 POSITIVE should run to the starter from the solenoid on the inner fender, ground should be a chassis ground as stated (and chassis to body/body to engine/chassis to engine... Some kind of mix of one to he other for ground). That 4.9 i6 is a good motor, always feels like your starting in too high a gear if it's a stick but it's a reliable SOB for a ford. Everything else rots around em here (but I AM in a rust belt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Starter doesnt sound right. I got the same problem as you a c-vic. Its the grounds are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Oh and one more thing, if you can jump the coil with a screw driver and it turns over better its not the grounds, but the connection/cables them selves that are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Oh and one more thing, if you can jump the coil with a screw driver and it turns over better its not the grounds, but the connection/cables them selves that are bad. coil? You mean the solenoid on the inner fender? Today went over my buddies house and helped him drop both fuel tanks, the front tank had a lot of rust in it and the gas,even though he filled it with new gas smelled bad, pulled the fuel pump and connected it straight to a battery and it didn't do anything, no hum, nothing, the rear tank looked almost new inside and I pulled that fuel pump and it also seems dead when connected straight to a battery. I added a 4 gauge ground from the negative battery terminal to the alternator bracket and I had him put the battery back in as I wanted to see if the ground made a difference. It was funny when he tried to start the truck it actually started and RAN !! and with no fuel tanks!! Guess it had some fuel in the filter. The engine still turns over very slowly when you first try to start it than it started right up, sounds like the timing is way advanced, the distributor hold down is still loose as he was messing with it, but with no gas tank it wouldn't run long enough for me to adjust the timing by ear. I suggested to him since the rear tank looks pretty good that he get a new fuel pump and run the truck off the rear tank for now and than when he can afford it get a new front tank. Edited December 12, 2010 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 You CAN jump it off with a screwdriver at the solenoid, that will help out some to diag the issue. Found some IMG that might help.... Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 thanks, so with key "On" jump the 2 large terminal right? And if the starter cranks quicker that indicates a wiring problem in the positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 IIRC yes, but I'd need a second opinion. Could be that the solenoid itself is bad. I've seen it happen more often than you would think. Does said friend have a voltimeter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) My buddy replaced the solenoid, the negative cable to the starter, plugs,wires,cap & rotor, new fuel filter (which is probably clogged already with all the crap that was in the tank), When it started yesterday it sounded pretty good for the brief time that it did run. He's going to get a new fuel pump for the rear tank as the sender and inside of the tank looked ok, the fuel lines should be clean he blew them out, and since it did run the injectors are probably not clogged or anything. Once we get that rear tank back together and in and if the truck will stay running, we'll have to set the timing correctly and see what else it may need. He doesn't have a multimeter but I do. thanks Edited December 12, 2010 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Figure it out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 New problems with the Ford, We got a new fuel pump installed in the rear tank and hooked the tank back up, put 5 gallons of clean gas in it, when you turn the key you can hear the fuel pump prime but truck still will not start. Pulled the line going to the fuel filter and coming out of the filter and have fuel, checked the Schrader valve on the fuel rail and have fuel there too. We know it has spark as it will run on starting fluid, (at least while you spray the starter fluid into the TB), it sounds like it wants to start but it won't on it's own. The fuel coming out of the Schrader valve on the rail still doesn't look the cleanest but we flushed some out of it to see if the fuel was making it up that far. Read on some F150 forums about other people having similar problems and they suggest to check the fuel pressure, will have to rent or buy a gauge to check that next. Ignition module is new also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Most likly the fuel pressure regulator, thats a real common problem on eairly EFI Ford engines. I'll find a link for checking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Ain't the rear tank just a feed tank for the front tank? I know late-ish model GMs are that way, don't remember if fords are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 25, 2010 Author Share Posted December 25, 2010 (edited) Most likly the fuel pressure regulator, thats a real common problem on eairly EFI Ford engines. I'll find a link for checking it. I thought I read some where that if you remove the vacuum hose from the regulator than see if the engine will start?? "Ain't the rear tank just a feed tank for the front tank? I know late-ish model GMs are that way, don't remember if fords are. " no, the front and rear tanks operate separately, each has a low pressure fuel pump that feeds into a high pressure pump mounted on the frame rail Edited December 25, 2010 by ahardb0dy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 (edited) No, theres 3 diffrent pumps that feed the engine, the lines converge just ahead of the front tank into 1 line in front of the front tank. Theres a switch on the dash that you move depending on the tank you want to use. If it just feed off of one it would leak fuel no matter what tank you had the switch on if the front had a hole. Edited December 25, 2010 by nismothunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 I thought I read some where that if you remove the vacuum hose from the regulator than see if the engine will start?? "Ain't the rear tank just a feed tank for the front tank? I know late-ish model GMs are that way, don't remember if fords are. " no, the front and rear tanks operate separately, each has a low pressure fuel pump that feeds into a high pressure pump mounted on the frame rail Yes, I believe you can I just read that in my Haynes book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Ahh... 80s GM style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 (edited) Ah, my bad, I was wrong on the regulator thing, a guy says that that wont affect the engine starting. He also had a few things for you too check. f150 Edited December 25, 2010 by nismothunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 thanks I replied directly to the post on the f150 forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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