adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Also while you are in there I would recommend re packing the inner and outer bearings. To do the inner you will need to remove and replace the grease seal. I would get new ones (one seal each side). When I did this on my truck the original seals looked like complete @!*% and water/mud and stuff was most likely getting in. The new seal is like 10 dollars and well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPathyGo Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Got the sucker out! I tried the screwdriver crap...snapped HALF the head off, halfway down the section (not clean off) and the drill bit couldn't bite enough or get it centered, so I used the grinder to take off the head within a 64th of the hub surface, tried drilling on that, but the bits couldn't get any ground in what was left of the extractor. Put an awl in the seam of the hub where it separates, hit it with a hammer. Pried the cover off, which pried the remaining head off, the shank was FINGER LOOSE when I got the cover completely off...lol good thing to Nice! I use titanium-tipped drillbits. Home Depot often has them on sale for < $20. You can also get a mega-set on Amazon when they go on "Gold Box special" for $50. Great improvisation, though. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I'm assuming Brakleen is a brand name of brake cleaner...in which case NO! There was a HUGE article circulating the 4x4 sites and welding sites about a dude who either died, or was severely paralyzed due to welding on "dry" brake cleaner residue...all it took was a little puff of smoke.. I wanted to post that up incase someone else reads it and gets the idea to weld after cleaning with brake cleaner... just sayin Yikes. Sorry for the bad advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Also while you are in there I would recommend re packing the inner and outer bearings. To do the inner you will need to remove and replace the grease seal. I would get new ones (one seal each side). When I did this on my truck the original seals looked like complete @!*% and water/mud and stuff was most likely getting in. The new seal is like 10 dollars and well worth it. Unfortunately, This may or may not happen as I need to get this on the road by tomorrow, and all the auto stores are closed (so I also can't get my autozone pads until tomorrow, but I want to get the hub/rotors on tonight... Got some advice if I decide to? What kinda grease? Currently the grease in there is dark brown and the one rubber seal that I see is in great condition (looking from the back of the rotor assembly?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I just used wheel bearing grease from the parts store its fine. If it's dark brown I would say to change it. If the seal looks good then I guess you could leave the inner bearing for now but definitely repack the outer, you have it out, you may as well. Especially if you've wheeled it in mud/water or have gotten stuck in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 I just used wheel bearing grease from the parts store its fine. If it's dark brown I would say to change it. If the seal looks good then I guess you could leave the inner bearing for now but definitely repack the outer, you have it out, you may as well. Especially if you've wheeled it in mud/water or have gotten stuck in water. Got any tips on repacking? (as in how, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Clean the bearing with paper towel as best you can, then put a blob of grease into your hand. Then push the bearing into it repeatedly until you see the new grease coming out the other side. You can also buy bearing packer tools but I am cheap and this works perfect. Also clean all the old grease out of the hub and put new stuff in. Put a thin bit of grease on the spindle and the threads for the lock nut. When you tighten the lock nut make sure you turn the hub a few times to seat the bearing. Do not over tighten the lock nut or you will burnout the bearings. It should be just tight enough so that there is no play in the bearing. You can put the tire on so you can check for play easier. According to the fsm there should be 0mm end play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Cool...and I finally got that stupid freakin rotor separated....long story This seal on the backside of the hub...DOES it come out? I don't want to rip it out, and find out its irreplaceable.. it doesn't budge, save for the circular spring tucked into it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Yes, it does come out, but it may be a bit stubborn after all these years. Sometimes you damage them taking them out, which is why you generally leave them alone or replace them. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Yes, it does come out, but it may be a bit stubborn after all these years. Sometimes you damage them taking them out, which is why you generally leave them alone or replace them. B I definately have to replace one right now....lol....still gotta get it out though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 IIRC it seats up against a shoulder in the bore. I have had luck removing seals by tapping them in a little to break them loose before pulling them out. The good news is that you can pry those out with a fine bladed screw driver, just try not to slip... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 IIRC it seats up against a shoulder in the bore. I have had luck removing seals by tapping them in a little to break them loose before pulling them out. The good news is that you can pry those out with a fine bladed screw driver, just try not to slip... B Yeah, I was initially trying to unseat it from itself on the outside lip (didn't realize how it was setup) until I looked up the part online @ autozone and saw how it comes out... Got it out, got all the parts wiped off (putting new Valvoline grease in) One of my caliper pistons wouldn't compress, so I said screw it, and bought two new ones, under 35 bucks a piece, and will make it go a bit quicker, as well as hopefully improve brake performance a little. Bought some C-max ceramic brake pads that are THICK!!! Question #193232.5- Scenario- Passenger caliper won't compress, brake pads are about 1/4" thick, outsides thicker than insides, inside rotor face was pitted and flaking Drivers caliper would compress, brake pads were well under 1/16" and flaking off at the ends... For quite a while, the truck would pull to the drivers side under heavy breaking (it would do it sometimes in light braking as well), and it sounds to me like this was the malfunctioning passenger side caliper.. The actual question- Would all this account for a squishy/softish pedal? Is there something that I can do to keep this crap from happening again? Update--- Drivers side is DONE (aside from bleeding) -ps, how can I tell how tight to get the washer thing that holds the outer bearing in solid? I got it tight, the rotor didn't wiggle or anything, and now that its all put together, it rotates with the same amount of resistance as I previously can remember... Passenger side needs the seal to FIT, aside from that, its all greased up and ready to be reinstalled, I need to just work on the caliper torsion bracket for a bit tonight(regrease/replace slide pins and boots) and I'll finish it up tomorrow morning.. Tips for the seal install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 (edited) When I installed my seal I used my old bearing race but that's because I changed the bearings. Try to find something round like that and tap it in slowly and evenly. As for the calipers I think that brake fluid changes as preventative maintenance would help. Like I said the bearing locknut should be just tight enough that the bearing doesn't have any play. When you put the tire on, see if you can move the tire in and out with your hands at 9 and 3. It's easier to check for play with the tire on. Once you do this whole job once you'll see it isn't that hard. I've done it enough times now that I can do the brakes and outer bearing repack in about 1.5 hours. Edited November 27, 2010 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 When I installed my seal I used my old bearing race but that's because I changed the bearings. Try to find something round like that and tap it in slowly and evenly. As for the calipers I think that brake fluid changes as preventative maintenance would help. Like I said the bearing locknut should be just tight enough that the bearing doesn't have any play. When you put the tire on, see if you can move the tire in and out with your hands at 9 and 3. It's easier to check for play with the tire on. Once you do this whole job once you'll see it isn't that hard. I've done it enough times now that I can do the brakes and outer bearing repack in about 1.5 hours. so would the wheel still rotate if it was too tight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 It would but it would be hard to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 It would but it would be hard to turn. I guess I'll be stripping down the passenger side tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Yeah, I was initially trying to unseat it from itself on the outside lip (didn't realize how it was setup) until I looked up the part online @ autozone and saw how it comes out... Got it out, got all the parts wiped off (putting new Valvoline grease in) One of my caliper pistons wouldn't compress, so I said screw it, and bought two new ones, under 35 bucks a piece, and will make it go a bit quicker, as well as hopefully improve brake performance a little. Bought some C-max ceramic brake pads that are THICK!!! Question #193232.5- Scenario- Passenger caliper won't compress, brake pads are about 1/4" thick, outsides thicker than insides, inside rotor face was pitted and flaking Drivers caliper would compress, brake pads were well under 1/16" and flaking off at the ends... For quite a while, the truck would pull to the drivers side under heavy breaking (it would do it sometimes in light braking as well), and it sounds to me like this was the malfunctioning passenger side caliper.. The actual question- Would all this account for a squishy/softish pedal? Is there something that I can do to keep this crap from happening again? Update--- Drivers side is DONE (aside from bleeding) -ps, how can I tell how tight to get the washer thing that holds the outer bearing in solid? I got it tight, the rotor didn't wiggle or anything, and now that its all put together, it rotates with the same amount of resistance as I previously can remember... Passenger side needs the seal to FIT, aside from that, its all greased up and ready to be reinstalled, I need to just work on the caliper torsion bracket for a bit tonight(regrease/replace slide pins and boots) and I'll finish it up tomorrow morning.. Tips for the seal install? Ok, damn tough to answer that mess so at least add a number system or something... Passenger side wasn't working worth a crap, piston frozen. Yes. It could, and... probably not outside of moving... The tension nut is 3-5 ft/lbs IIRC, in other words, not much at all. I generally go to no rotor wobble (manual duress test) and then to the next locking ring position. I prefer too tight to too loose, but others may not. If you have replaced bearings, the setting is different. You have been here for a while, have you not downloaded a FSM in the Garage yet?? Grease the seal surfaces/seal, lay it flat and tap it in with a board and a hammer (GENTLY!!) to get it started all the way around then finess the rest. so would the wheel still rotate if it was too tight? Yes, you might not be able to tell It would but it would be hard to turn. If one went by that, you'd have glowing bearings in 100 miles. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Ok, damn tough to answer that mess so at least add a number system or something... Passenger side wasn't working worth a crap, piston frozen. Yes. It could, and... probably not outside of moving... The tension nut is 3-5 ft/lbs IIRC, in other words, not much at all. I generally go to no rotor wobble (manual duress test) and then to the next locking ring position. I prefer too tight to too loose, but others may not. If you have replaced bearings, the setting is different. You have been here for a while, have you not downloaded a FSM in the Garage yet?? Grease the seal surfaces/seal, lay it flat and tap it in with a board and a hammer (GENTLY!!) to get it started all the way around then finess the rest. Yes, you might not be able to tell If one went by that, you'd have glowing bearings in 100 miles. B Tapped the seal in on my way to taco bell, set the old one on top, one tap and it was in..easy! I use chilton manuals, they are free to michigan residents online for all vehicles that chilton makes them for, and I couldn't find a section on the reassembly of that locknut, but for some reason 5lbs sounds right, cause I remember reading like 78-86 ft inches of torque...we will see My bearings looked great, as did my seals but I wanted to do one just to get it done for practice, so I repacked em with grease and put em back in. Still gotta find somewhere who stocks the hub bolts, considering I kinda demolished one of mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 (edited) If one went by that, you'd have glowing bearings in 100 miles. B I only measured the torque when I replaced the drivers side bearings all other times I did it by "eye" before I had the hub tool. I've never had a bearing problem and the only reason I changed the bearings is because a slightly cupped tire was giving me the symptoms of bearing failure. According to the fsm the torque specs is less that 2 ft-lbs. Here, this should help him: Edited November 27, 2010 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 (edited) Cool, I definitely think I overtightened it now, as I used a screwdriver and a 12" 1/2" ratchet extension to really tighten it down, which in hindsight was not a wise choice. Out of "curiosity" which way does the lock nut go on? One side has a tapered edge, the other does not... this picture makes it look like the inner edge has the taper- Edited November 27, 2010 by OldSlowReliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Which way did it come off?? Beveled edge faces out on my truck. I use chilton manuals, they are free to michigan residents online for all vehicles that chilton makes them for, and I couldn't find a section on the reassembly of that locknut, but for some reason 5lbs sounds right, cause I remember reading like 78-86 ft inches of torque...we will see Still gotta find somewhere who stocks the hub bolts, considering I kinda demolished one of mine Ok, well, free and not having the section you need=useless. The FSM is free also and has that section as shown by Adam. Download it and save yourself some grief... The dealer?? If you have trouble finding one, send me your addy and I'll mail you one. M8x1.25x30mm SHCS B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Which way did it come off?? Beveled edge faces out on my truck. Ok, well, free and not having the section you need=useless. The FSM is free also and has that section as shown by Adam. Download it and save yourself some grief... The dealer?? If you have trouble finding one, send me your addy and I'll mail you one. M8x1.25x30mm SHCS B I put both of them beveled edge in..lol, I don't see how it would cause any issues, but I'll rip it apart over winter break and fix it to be safe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Sorry, I'm just saying how mine were. I really don't think it matters so if it ain't broke, don't fix it... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSlowReliable Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Sorry, I'm just saying how mine were. I really don't think it matters so if it ain't broke, don't fix it... B I wasn't about to worry! Lol So my brakes WORK...I got it all together, bled a fair bit of air (to be expected, put new calipers on) but- I went for a drive to break em in a bit like I've done with my other brake jobs, and it seems like the pedal is soft and goes a bit too far (but still brakes efficiently) on the first press, but if I press it again, it is firm and can easily make my front tires howl... I think its either the rear drums adjusting, then applying the brake, or the master cylinder is shot, but I'm not sure... The soft pedal did remedy over the brake in period, and I am running ceramic pads...but I don't see how they need to warm up THAT much, or how taht would account for the double tap syndrome Edited November 28, 2010 by OldSlowReliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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