Scaramoche Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Well, looks like im getting new tires in the next week or two, but before i tear them up i need to adjust camber. the top of both my tires lean 9into the body(i believe this is negative camber). I have a feeling this occured when i crankecd my torsion bars. either way i tried cranking them down, driving back and forth then checking, but tires still have camber. How do i adjust this? i hate it cause on uneven roads or bumps the stearing gets squarly. I know about the string and tape method for aligning, im just not sure what to crank, ie like the torsion bolts, do i let them in or out? help, chiltons for all the good it's done my says" you have neg camber, take it to a mechanic...well hell, i cant offord one ) thanks Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 You have to put spacers between the upper control arm spindle, and the frame, where the spindles bolt in. Alignment shops have proper shims for this, though, I have heard of folks using washers to get things close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87pathy Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 take it to hte alignment place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 You can shim it yourself like Simon suggested, but ultimately it needs to be properly aligned. I just had mine done, and it already needs to go back. Very frustrating, but the t-bars will sag, and everything changes when you put different wheels, bigger tires, etc on your truck. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Something else that suffers majorly when cranking the t-bars is the tie rods and centerlink. The angle is so extreme that it wears these parts out quickly. When I first bought my truck, the steering parts were wore out. I thought it was an alignment issue but it was not so. You may have to look at loose/worn parts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 As long as the alignment guy knows what he's doing, no prob. But I've been to three shops and none have done it correctly, so I did mine myself. First thing is to get your ride height even. Measure the height from the ground to the center of the bolt that holds your lower control arm to the frame (call that "A"). Then measure from the ground to the top or bottom of the steering stop or some other spot that's consistent on each LCA (call that "B"). A-B= ride height. Once the ride height is dead equal on both LCAs, take a level to your rims. I used a straight square bar and cut it so it would sit flat against the outer lip of the rim and not touch the tire then stuck a level on the bar. You want the wheels to be almost perpindicular to the ground with just a touch of neg camber (leaning in). I'm talking just a hair, a blonde one. You achieve this by putting shims behind the UCA spindle. Now, let's say you slap your level on the rim and it's off. Then you move the top of the level out, say 1/8", and the bubble centers you'd naturally figure you would need a 1/8" shim behind the spindle. Not true. The shim thickness at the spindle is disproportionate from the measured distance the rim moves. Simply said, it'll be way too much shim. A thin shim will push the top of the rim out much further than the thickness of that shim. I don't have a formula or anything, just a load of trial and error over a couple very hot days. I made sure to put an equally thick shim behind each UCA bolt when making the adjustments. That way (I think) I wouldn't affect caster too much. Seemed to work, it rides and stops OK. When you add shims, just bouncing the front end to "settle" the suspension won't work, believe me. I had everything measured to a tee, then almost lost it going over some train tracks. When I got back, I took a look and the wheels were at such positive camber it looked like a VW bug with no engine. What I did to "settle" the suspension was back out of the garage and pop the clutch up the driveway to hop the front end. I would do that a few times after each adjustment. Works well. Toe-in was OK so I didn't adjust it, but here's how I checked: Put the front on jackstands under the LCAs. You want the weight of the truck to be sitting as if it were on it's wheels. Find a common mark on each tire. I used the rubber seam left from the mold that runs down the center of the tread (BFG A/T's). Then I stuck a screw in the lug at the seam, spun the tire so the screw was at 15" from the ground and measured from one tire to the other at the front of the truck. Now spin the tire 180 degrees and measure underneath the truck between the screws again, keeping the screws at 15" above the ground. The front measurement should be 1/32" to 1/16" shorter than the rear. If not, you'll have to adjust your tie-rods. Now my standard disclaimer: I am in no way a trained auto mechanic, technician or guru. If you follow this advice you're on your own as it is intended for entertainment purposes only. The author of the above post smoked a lot of pot in high school and retained nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 JJ that last part is awesome... But good sound advice...basically the poor mans alignment...(virtually what the shops do, with fancier tools...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I know about the string and tape method for aligning,... Oh yeah, if you installed lift springs in the rear and don't have a panhard bar drop bracket that won't work. You're rear axle is actually off-center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaramoche Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Thanks everyone. Well Yesterday I took my pathy to a shop to get a cat put on it....while i was there I found out they do suspension and alingnemetn. The owner said he would check alignment for me...about 20min later he called me to garage and showed me that my balljoints were shot, and a couple of other joints(i have then written down). He also said i need a "Shim" pack. So either way, looks like im going to learn alot about suspension in the next week. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) Hello ! 1 had 2 thoughts about this . I've had the shims pop loose after a while,but once I changed to washers I have not [obviously] had any come loose Also , the alignment on my old 1990 has always been tough to balance, and the only people who knew the vehicle well enough to get it right was the Nissan stealership. Several other places tried and they could never get it right.Good luck ! Edited June 19, 2010 by glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 REMEMBER nissan spec... for shims is 3/8" max and this is a number I would not fool arround with. maybe go 1/2" on one if all the others are within 3/8" Shims... easy to install to get it right, easy to fall out after some abuse allowing to the spinlde to batter the bolt which batters the threads on the frame. Washers... Once alginged with shims(get done quicker) use the same thickeness in washers. Start by using HARDENED Wasehers then regular thin 1 or 2 to get it exact. the hardened washers will not compress or deform so your bolt stays tight for longer. Bolts... the stock bolt is a 55mm pilot tip (also called body bolt) this means the last ~5mm of the bolt are narrowed and not threaded. A regular cut 60mm bolt will therefore give you 10mm more threads and is safely useable. 65mm or longer will bottom out on the frame if minimal shims are used. The use of 10.9 (grade 8 equiv) is contraversial for reasons I will not list in this quick tip but I will say that I use them and I think they are good. Torque... once your washers are in torqe to 75-100 fltlbs. The spec is 80-108 but also consider shims give more than wahsers and hardend washers do not give at all. Check these bolts at least every oil change esp if you are right @ 3/8" or wheel your pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaramoche Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 REMEMBER nissan spec... for shims is 3/8" max and this is a number I would not fool arround with. maybe go 1/2" on one if all the others are within 3/8" Shims... easy to install to get it right, easy to fall out after some abuse allowing to the spinlde to batter the bolt which batters the threads on the frame. Washers... Once alginged with shims(get done quicker) use the same thickeness in washers. Start by using HARDENED Wasehers then regular thin 1 or 2 to get it exact. the hardened washers will not compress or deform so your bolt stays tight for longer. Bolts... the stock bolt is a 55mm pilot tip (also called body bolt) this means the last ~5mm of the bolt are narrowed and not threaded. A regular cut 60mm bolt will therefore give you 10mm more threads and is safely useable. 65mm or longer will bottom out on the frame if minimal shims are used. The use of 10.9 (grade 8 equiv) is contraversial for reasons I will not list in this quick tip but I will say that I use them and I think they are good. Torque... once your washers are in torqe to 75-100 fltlbs. The spec is 80-108 but also consider shims give more than wahsers and hardend washers do not give at all. Check these bolts at least every oil change esp if you are right @ 3/8" or wheel your pathy. Thanks m8, gonna start that in a couple days! I just passed emissions! woot, im legal again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 REMEMBER nissan spec... for shims is 3/8" max and this is a number I would not fool arround with. maybe go 1/2" on one if all the others are within 3/8" Shims... easy to install to get it right, easy to fall out after some abuse allowing to the spinlde to batter the bolt which batters the threads on the frame. Washers... Once alginged with shims(get done quicker) use the same thickeness in washers. Start by using HARDENED Wasehers then regular thin 1 or 2 to get it exact. the hardened washers will not compress or deform so your bolt stays tight for longer. Bolts... the stock bolt is a 55mm pilot tip (also called body bolt) this means the last ~5mm of the bolt are narrowed and not threaded. A regular cut 60mm bolt will therefore give you 10mm more threads and is safely useable. 65mm or longer will bottom out on the frame if minimal shims are used. The use of 10.9 (grade 8 equiv) is contraversial for reasons I will not list in this quick tip but I will say that I use them and I think they are good. Torque... once your washers are in torqe to 75-100 fltlbs. The spec is 80-108 but also consider shims give more than wahsers and hardend washers do not give at all. Check these bolts at least every oil change esp if you are right @ 3/8" or wheel your pathy. Happened to me ; loose shims [ didn't know they were loose] , bolt torqued right out of frame, stripping threads. Caused alot of damage, had to have repair to frame [ $$$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Yep...I just ordered some longer metric bolts to take care of business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaramoche Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Yep...I just ordered some longer metric bolts to take care of business... well, Im SOOOO happy, i lifted the front of my pathy, pulled the tires, and WHAM, no shims. infact there was 1/4 inch or so gap between the a-arm and the frame. I replaced with washers(my local auto shop wanted 22.00 for 6 shims, i paid 4 dollars for a box of high end washers lol. replaced the shims/aka washers, tightened everything(did this couple of times to get wheels correct), and BAng! it drives like new. I also greased everything. Next upper ball joints. Thanks All Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Happened to me ; loose shims [ didn't know they were loose] , bolt torqued right out of frame, stripping threads. Caused alot of damage, had to have repair to frame [ $$$] next time get some timeserts. thats how I fixed mine. Unlike heli coils they are permenant locking and designed for repeated use. Once set they will not fall thru nor will they back out. http://www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 My1path, quick question...My bolts came in, and they were way to big...any idea what size the factory are? I know they metric, but M16 is too big, M14 maybe? Frustrating as crap, the Fastenal guys are idiots and wont take back special order items. WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I guess I should reiterate... I took one of the factory bolts in to the Fastenal, and they measurued it and said it was an M16 metric bolt. I asked for a 60mm length and they said okay. $4.70 a bolt special order. They come in, I take them to my alignment guy...he calls me an hour later and says "Dude who sold you these bolts, they are waaay to big." I wanted to line up some iron sights... anyway...help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 M14x1.5 pitch 60mm long. sory I didn't clairfy that earlier. the 10.9 hardend bolts run me about 8.50 each @ that lenght. standard grade are polly about half that. Its not like you walked in and told them the wrong size leaving you @ fault! they had better take the order back, if they took the size from your sampe it is their obligation because they are 100% at fault. the better buisness buearo should back you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Thanks bro, I am going to have to order some new ones...Went in Fastenal again, and raised hell...the manager asked me to leave. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 That manager is an asshat. I would keep going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 Oh well. Not Oh well! are you saying that if you paid be 10g for a camero and say no refund that your gonna say oh well if I get you S10 pickup (ugly step bed body) instead. yeh its only 20 bucks but the merchant measured and documented the wrong size. Got to BBB or get some other party involved becuse rather than being responsible and cutting their losses they are SEALING FROM YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 ok, I'm pretty adimant about this. the exact same thing happend to me @ home deopot with a door. (not returns on special orderd pre cut doors) I did fight it and I did get my money back. and I do know the frustrightion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoore4512 Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 You know, you are right. I guess it is simply the fact that I deal with so much confrontation at work, that I do not really want it when I am off... I need to tighten up, and go take care of business. I am going back in the morning... Gotta get my M14.5 bolts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 You know, you are right. I guess it is simply the fact that I deal with so much confrontation at work, that I do not really want it when I am off... I need to tighten up, and go take care of business. I am going back in the morning... Gotta get my M14.5 bolts! that's M14 x 1.5 60mm long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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