Air shocks as quick discos?

[jj big shoe]

I was wondering if there would be a way to use air shocks in place of the rear swaybar links so that they would hold (relatively) stiff when aired up and let the axle articulate when purged. I've been bouncing different ideas around in my head and I like the sound of this one since it could be controlled remotely and you wouldn't have to worry about securing the swaybar like you would with actual discos.

 

Any idea how much force is on the stock links during normal conditions and how stiff could you get an air shock to be? I thought I saw some advertised that said they would increase the payload capacity 1,100 lbs.

[MY1PATH]

I like that, It'd be like having remote disconnects. I'd be interested to see what you find out.

Edited April 20, 2008 by MY1PATH

[Simon]

Sounds feasible JJ. I'd say it's worth a shot. I have no rear swaybar on my truck anyways, and I notice no difference in on-road conditions.

[jj big shoe]

Yeah, but I drive like a jackass sometimes and having no swaybars on mine at all makes things... interesting. If anything it'll be one more thing to justify an OBA system.

[bigmatt]

I actually looked into this for a project back in college. The easiest way would be to use hydraulic cylinders to replace the end and connect the cylinders to each other by a solenoid valve. When the valve is closed the fluid is locked into each cylinder which makes them a solid link. when you want to disconnect the swaybar you open the valve which lets fluid from one cylinder travel to the opposite side of the other cylinder.

A cylinder like this would be almost perfect:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=...tname=hydraulic

 

The only downside is that if the valve is closed while you are not on level ground the rear swaybar would be off center. It would be very interesting if the valve closed while you were in a high-flex situation.

 

Bigmatt

[jj big shoe]

If I'm seeing this right, you wouldn't need a remote reservior since all you're doing is blocking the fluid from flowing from one end of the cylinder to the other with the solenoid? So you would run a line from the upper and lower ports on each cylinder with a solenoid valve in each line. Close the valve and no fluid transfer, rock solid. Open it and fluid will flow unrestricted allowing the swaybar to move with the axle.

 

That actually seems a lot simpler and solid than air. As long as its a remote system there shouldn't be an issue with the swaybar being level. You'd just leave it open until you get back on pavement then flip the switch.

[bigmatt]

If I'm seeing this right, you wouldn't need a remote reservior since all you're doing is blocking the fluid from flowing from one end of the cylinder to the other with the solenoid? So you would run a line from the upper and lower ports on each cylinder with a solenoid valve in each line. Close the valve and no fluid transfer, rock solid. Open it and fluid will flow unrestricted allowing the swaybar to move with the axle.

 

That actually seems a lot simpler and solid than air. As long as its a remote system there shouldn't be an issue with the swaybar being level. You'd just leave it open until you get back on pavement then flip the switch.

 

Exactly, no resevoir necessary. You could probably get away with only a cylinder on one side of the swaybar, and leave the opposite side solid.

 

There is a benefit of using two cylinders though. If you were to connect the upper port of the left side to the upper port of the right side, when you get off camber and your left wheel us pushed up, the hydraulic fluid from the left cylinder would be pushed over to the right side which would push that wheel down. This would effectively put more equal pressure on the ground than just the stock suspension could accomplish. More equal pressure = better traction, especially if you don't have a locker.

 

Bigmatt

[jj big shoe]

Very cool. I'll have to add that to my "to do" list, number 4,657. I like trick stuff like that because its so different.

[MY1PATH]

...If you were to connect the upper port of the left side to the upper port of the right side, when you get off camber and your left wheel us pushed up, the hydraulic fluid from the left cylinder would be pushed over to the right side which would push that wheel down. This would effectively put more equal pressure on the ground than just the stock suspension could accomplish. More equal pressure = better traction, especially if you don't have a locker.

Interesting, how much is that swaybar gonna flex before you actually feel the the differnce in the right wheel?

 

On second thought, would't that push the body farther away from the right wheel which is the opposite of what a sway bar is trying to do? I see the benifit in an off road situation where the sway bar might be disconnected but in a sharp on-road turn I think you would feel allot more body roll.*visualizes* OH! So if you had that config but with a line locker (like for bakes) between each sides upper port and just an open line between each sides lower port that you have engaged for street and disengaged for offroad. the line locker will prevent the upper ports form exchanging fludis which means the lowers won't either.

 

I wanna try this one day...

Edited April 24, 2008 by MY1PATH

[jj big shoe]

I definately want to try this. I'm thinking link the upper and lower port on each cylinder with a "line lock" valve in between. I'm not too concerned with the (theoretical?) added benefit of linking the cylinders together.

 

One thing to consider is if you can hook the valve up so its normally closed with no voltage applied (locking the swaybar) and opens when you put 12v to it. I'd rather have the system fail on the trails at low speed than suddenly have a lot of unexpected body roll on the street, especially if someone else is driving it at the time. I wonder how long one of those solenoid valves can stay open without damage? They're really designed to operate a short time while you're doing a burnout.

 

And where the hell is Bernard? He used to chime in on this kinda stuff.

Paging Precise1...?

Edited April 26, 2008 by jj big shoe

[GrimGreg]

So how are you going to force the pressure to the side that is leaning?

[88pathoffroad]

Drag-style line lockers are for brake fluid, not air. Not too sure that'd work. I have a lever-type lock from out of a bucket truck. One day I'm building a fail-proof e-brake. My e-brake sucks ass.

[jj big shoe]

So how are you going to force the pressure to the side that is leaning?

I don't get you question, maybe you're asking about one of MY1PATH's posts. I'm thinking of linking each upper and lower port on each side, not one side to the other. I think that would work. Let the fluid run from upper to lower on each ram for flex, then block it when on road.

 

Drag-style line lockers are for brake fluid, not air.

bigmatt suggested dual-port hydraulic rams instead of air shocks a few posts into this so that's why the line lockers would be used now. Even though I'd like to, I don't know if I'll ever really get around to doing it, but it is fun to think about anyway. Edited April 28, 2008 by jj big shoe

[87pathy]

Drag-style line lockers are for brake fluid, not air. Not too sure that'd work. I have a lever-type lock from out of a bucket truck. One day I'm building a fail-proof e-brake. My e-brake sucks ass.

 

 

You have an e-brake?

 

 

on another note... put your sway bar back in and make some mechanica QD's for it.. what your talking about i could buid 100 set of QD's for the price of your shock system. and air alwasy leaks off ALWAYS

[MY1PATH]

You have an e-brake?

on another note... put your sway bar back in and make some mechanica QD's for it.. what your talking about i could buid 100 set of QD's for the price of your shock system. and air alwasy leaks off ALWAYS

Were talking about a hydraluic qd system now! and yes it is an expensive theroy to buy 2 hydro rams and a pair of hydro line lockers.

 

One thing to consider is if you can hook the valve up so its normally closed with no voltage applied (locking the swaybar) and opens when you put 12v to it. I'd rather have the system fail on the trails at low speed than suddenly have a lot of unexpected body roll on the street, especially if someone else is driving it at the time. I wonder how long one of those solenoid valves can stay open without damage? They're really designed to operate a short time while you're doing a burnout.

 

Yes the original concept is to assist burnouts and prevent roll-back@ the drag line but many Line lockers have been designed with a built in secondary long term use as an e-brake. yes they are a normally open positon but mfgrs claim the draw so little power to stay locked (about as much as your dash clock)that they could keep your breaks locked (as e-brakes) for up to 6 months on one car battery.

[GrimGreg]

I don't get you question, maybe you're asking about one of MY1PATH's posts. I'm thinking of linking each upper and lower port on each side, not one side to the other. I think that would work. Let the fluid run from upper to lower on each ram for flex, then block it when on road.

 

My point is if they are locked in place on the road they aren't going to be doing anything for anti-sway. If you want to use them for anti-sway purposes then when the truck leans in a corner, you need to force more air into the side that is leaning to stop the body roll.

 

As for offroad use if you have each one set up like a normal bag setup uses (pump and purge valved) then you can do some awsome stuff. Have a friend with a Taco who runs bags and he can gain extra flex with them, just deflates the high side and pumps up the low side and he is leveled out. Look up "Krawlr".

[jj big shoe]

My point is if they are locked in place on the road they aren't going to be doing anything for anti-sway. If you want to use them for anti-sway purposes then when the truck leans in a corner, you need to force more air into the side that is leaning to stop the body roll.

 

Gotcha, but what about the hydro system were talking about now? Once the rams are locked they should work just like the solid stock links, right?

 

And yes, it would be less expensive to use traditional discos, but where's the fun in that?

Edited April 30, 2008 by jj big shoe

[GrimGreg]

So you are thinking the hydros to replace the stock links? That might work, but you would either need really stubby ones to be able to up travel enough, or find a new place to mount the frame end.

[jj big shoe]

Yeah, I was thinking the stock frame mount would probably be too low. I'll have to crawl around and raise the rear with a forklift or something to see how it would move and where to mount whatever ram I find.

 

 

 

 

Then after a bit of that I'll prolly have no time again, lose interest or just get frustrated with the whole project and forget it. Man, I should get a teaching degree so I can have a month or two of summer off each year and get stuff done.

[GrimGreg]

You still wouldn't get stuff done, and you know it's true.

[jj big shoe]

Damn you, King Dark Lord. You know your subjects too well.