k9sar Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 not sure what you mean by 'other post' There is a single big wire on the starter that holds 12V all the time There is a smaller wire that connects to the solenoid (on the side of the starter) that is tied into the ignition circuit. Turning the key energizes the solenoid which throws the big wire 12V to the starter windings. Check for 12V on the big wire. Check for 12V on the trigger wire in all key positions (off -> 0v, on -> 0v, start - 12v) if voltage isn't there, the problem is upstream and could be the connection to another relay that has baffled many and bypassed by few. I have a writeup in here somewhere about how to bypass the intermittent starter issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hey I dropped my Starter... it split into 2 pieces..... Try explaining that to the parts guy... They are kinda fickle... The shielding on the wires is pretty tough... if its not the relay, its a loose connection some where... and we all love those... When your done, you will get a real warm fuzzy feeling... its all worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 This is already driving me insane. I had no problems whatsoever starting it before the swap... I've only had trouble starting it once, this was when I flicked the valet switch alot to make the alarm chirp and somehow activated an immobilizer or something.. wouldn't start unless I pulled the alarm fuse. Bye bye remote locks. I don't know what to do guys, but thanks alot for the help so far. I knew this swap was too much to tackle alone, haha. I did it, but now I've got a damn wiring gremlin or something. Fudge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 pull that fuse and try it... its something simple and stupid at the same time.... has to be, its a Pathy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 I don't remember ever putting that fuse back in.. If I remember correctly it's in the bottom of a mud hole 50 miles up in the bush. I'll go check though. Man, this is annoying me haha. I just want my Pathy back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 next suggestion would be to get yourself a chickenbone cross, some river stones, a lighter and a live platypus.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Ah for fricks sake. I give up for a while. Son of a beach. Pathy can sit out there alone while pack rats run all over it and piss on it. I've had enough of that thing for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 well if it spun over thats good....thats the "hotwire" Oh my god. Uncc, come over. Remember when you said you wish you could work on a truck with a flat of beer... Your time has come. I'll go back out tomorrow and try to see what the fruitbat is going on. The starter relay is the one in your pic, yes, uncc? There's a blue male plug just sitting there by the battery tray, right where your relay is, but there's also a relay against the fender that's got a plug in it...Hmmm. i wish I could just step back for a lil while and dont worry about it...think about something else b/c if not its going to give you more problems and not be worth it...i'll send you a PM with my email address (gmail so it has chat) and we can walk through it unless you can call the US and it not cost us anything...dont be intimidated b/c its electrical...and maybe it's like my last swap (engine wouldnt start so I thought it was just locked up come to find out I had a round tooth on a square tooth setup and I was very glad when I found out later that it wouldnt start b/c if so I would have ate the new motor... we'll get you stright b4 too long dont you worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Heh, okay. Thanks for the words of encouragement. I really want this beast running. While I'm waiting for my second wind, I should go out into the shop and set up with my .22cal pellet gun and wait for those damn rats that pissed all over my floor and doors inside... (my pass. side front window is down.... the power window cable wont wrap properly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) K, well I found why the starter wouldn't turn.... The wire for the plug had somehow been damaged, so I cut, stripped connected and shrink wrapped it, and the starter turns now. The motor turns over now, but it wont start. Like it's not getting fuel or something. I did change my plugs and wires, and the dizzy DID come out. Should I prime the lines or something? Take the fuel lines off and turn the key to pump fuel through them? I have some fuel stabilizer too, should I use some? Edited March 6, 2008 by ILoveMyPatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 The carbon canister isn't hooked up... I'm not sure if that really matters? I don't know... I need to know where all three ports on the canister go, I know that one (the largest) goes to a small hose underneath the intake plenum, near the front of the motor (next to a hose that goes into the intake assembly). I'm unsure of where the other two hoses go... Thanks brother, for deleting my engine pics off the digi cam to make room for a wet t-shirt contest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 My buddy who pulled the dizzy seems to think that the spark timing is wayy off, and that's why it wont start. Is this possible? And should I go out and try to find TDC on cylinder 1, and reinstall the dizzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Woah, woah, WOAH! Slow down there sparky! Aight, how much of it do you have hooked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Heh.. Everything is hooked up minus two lines to the carbon canister, and a couple manifold ground straps (which apparently don't need to be there anyway to have it run). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Eh... I dont' know about that for the evap cannister... I'm no mechanic, and I don't know exactly what it does, but I know it's a bit important All your electronics are hooked up and charged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 Yep, everything (to my knowledge) is hooked up, battery is brand new. I would assume that the carbon canister is somewhat important... It seems like a pretty important part of the vaccum system, but I don't know if it would prevent starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 it will run with out the canister vac line... like sh!t, but it will run... Turns over... you get spark... did you cross the fuel lines? Ask Slick.. its easy... Confirm that, then we can play with the timing... BTW Im not working tomorrow so I can chat with you on the phone... just wont be able to run out and look at stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 I don't believe I crossed the fuel lines, I labeled everything before I took the old motor out. But, I guess it's possible, eh? This is pretty interesting, but I'm somewhat glad it's happening... Learning from my mistakes. Tackling this swap and having the Pathy live once again will be a really good feeling. Especially with my experience consisting of putting in new rear shocks, changing rear control arm bushings. and an oil change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I guess the checklist would be as follows: Do you have fuel getting to the chamber Do you have compression (cycling on starter) Do you have a spark Do you have air intake Check those four things first - it's most likely one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I was under the impression that when you turn the key theres no turning over of the engine at all? if everything is hooked up and its not starting...and you have good battery (maybe try starting your turck up in a "jumpstart" configuration...b/c if the battery is low on amps the starter isnt going to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 uncc, I found the problem with the starter. The wire going to the plug had been damaged somehow, I think by the power steering pump when I moved it out of the way to get the motor out. I cut/stripped/connected and shrink tubed it, and it turns over now, but it wont start. Battery is good, I hooked up a charger and put it to the "start" setting, still wont start. It turns over, but wont start. I don't have any special tools to check things, like a volt meter or anything so this could be fun. And like I said earlier, the dizzy has been out, and put back in... but could and probably was installed incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 This may help...here is where the rotor should point when your engine is at #1 TDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveMyPatty Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 K, thanks 88. You're saying that I should find TDC on #1 and reset my dizzy eh. I'll do that tomorrow morning. Do you think it should fire if I get it set properly? Can the timing be off so bad that it wont fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigent Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) depending on how far off the timing *might* be, you could rotate all of the wires around on the distributor. i.e. take the #1 wire and put it on #2, #2 to #3 and so on. if that doesn't work, keep doing it. until you notice some improvement. Also, each time you rotate the wires, keep the distributor lock bolt loose so you can rotate the distributor as well to play with it a bit too. If you find that it starts after you rotated the wires, your distributor is definitely off a few teeth. If it is, just find TDC on #1 and pull the distributor out and make it look like the pic above, remembering that when you push down on the distributor, the rotor will turn as it is inserted. The teeth are spiraled on the shaft, so if you just line up the rotor with the #1 firing position, after you have pushed the distributor all the way down, the rotor will have turned counter clockwise some. also, it sounds simple, but check to make sure you have the right wires going to the right places. I had an old pontiac grand am a long time ago, and I had changed the plug wires, but didn't put them back to the right cylinders. hehe. indigent. Edited March 7, 2008 by Indigent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 check TDC by pulling out plug 1 and putting a long screwdriver down the hole. disconnec the coil and hand crank the engine until the piston is at the top. Check the distributer. It will either be at post 1 or 180 degrees off. and check the plug you pulled... if it's dry on the electrode, you ain't getting fuel. Should be wet with gas if you are cranking and the fuel injectors are working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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