02silverpathy Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Backyard chemist here....I added 1 gallon of this to approx 17 gal of 93 oct V-Power...this should yeild 94.16 octane.....loads of fun go VQ go!! This equation is here...backyard octane booster I stayed under my 5% mixture so I felt safe, definately a smoother idle and much more push. The gallon of Toluene was $15 and I had to explain myself buying it since it is used to make certain street drugs/narcotics. Who knows if you really get the octane you pay for? Here is a sweet way to get some for sure!! I can only imagine if I still had the smaller tires and no lift, oh and minus the 3 12"s and box in the hatch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 yea, i believe you were imagining the extra power. first of all, why are you using 93 octane? it does no good for the engine, you are just wasting money. I dont even use 93 in my race car and its got 11:1 compression. you do know, the higher octane number the harder/slower the fuel detonates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 The VQ calls for premium fuel. (recommended, not required). It runs better on higher octane. Here in Canada, the highest available is 94. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark94XE Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Careful, that stuff will give you cancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 That's some expensive octane booster, man. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 (edited) yea, i believe you were imagining the extra power. first of all, why are you using 93 octane? it does no good for the engine, you are just wasting money. I dont even use 93 in my race car and its got 11:1 compression. you do know, the higher octane number the harder/slower the fuel detonates. The VQ engine has the ability to advance/retard its own timing and change its level of output based on the octane that it "sees". Does your racecar has a carb or an ECU has this makes all the difference in the world, though you should still use higher quality fuel, it surprises me since most people with race cars would run CAM II all day long if they could afford it. I figuer that my coil pack set up probably doesn't care about the detonation and the Iridiums in the garage that are going in this afternoon take a large % less effort to spark this sounds like a winning combinatation...in worked in my 1998 BMW that had coil packs and asked for min RON 89. That car definately backed off with 89 vs. 93. Why on earth would Corvette owners want to boost their octane in a $60,000 vette...that is if they did not already add Lingenfelter heads and a load based wet nitrous system.... Check this out!! -->Def. not cheap, but it was fun! ---->Cancer! I live in America, I am getting it anyway call it bad Juju or whatever! Lol, JK USA is ok most of the time! Edited December 12, 2007 by 02silverpathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardavis78 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Backyard chemist here....I added 1 gallon of this to approx 17 gal of 93 oct V-Power...this should yeild 94.16 octane.....loads of fun go VQ go!! This equation is here...backyard octane booster I stayed under my 5% mixture so I felt safe, definately a smoother idle and much more push. The gallon of Toluene was $15 and I had to explain myself buying it since it is used to make certain street drugs/narcotics. Who knows if you really get the octane you pay for? Here is a sweet way to get some for sure!! I can only imagine if I still had the smaller tires and no lift, oh and minus the 3 12"s and box in the hatch!! Screw gas mileage...let's talk more about these street drugs/narcotics and how they are made...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark94XE Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I live in america too. Anyway, I think your ideas of octane and detonation resistance are a little confused. And what do your coil packs have to do with caring about detonation? Your engine doesn't "see" octane. It "hears" detonation and advances or retards your timing accordingly. If you're getting any detonation at all you have problems. And you ECU can only advance the timing to a certain degree, so I your fuel (lets say 93 octane) is stable up to the temperature and cylinder pressure that your motor can generate at that maximum timing, anything over that 93 octane is a waste. I can't imagine on a VG33 in a pathy, the timing curve is very agressive. Sorry for the novel and I hope I didn't confuse you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) I live in america too. Anyway, I think your ideas of octane and detonation resistance are a little confused. And what do your coil packs have to do with caring about detonation? Your engine doesn't "see" octane. It "hears" detonation and advances or retards your timing accordingly. If you're getting any detonation at all you have problems. And you ECU can only advance the timing to a certain degree, so I your fuel (lets say 93 octane) is stable up to the temperature and cylinder pressure that your motor can generate at that maximum timing, anything over that 93 octane is a waste. I can't imagine on a VG33 in a pathy, the timing curve is very agressive. Sorry for the novel and I hope I didn't confuse you. What I meant by living in America is that I feel sometimes the things we do to, or provide influence, to other countries will land all of us a battle with cancer, other than that I am really not sure if we really know what gets those cancer gnomes in our blood to kick on and start raising havoc. With the truck, I have a VQ35de...if you were looking at my stats, that was for the 98 that I once owned. The VQ35 in any vehicle (Max, Altima, Path, 350z) can and will benefit from higher octane...due to high compression and computer controlled variable timing DOHC. "See" vs "Hear" same ideas here...the ecu can figure/judge/understand/compute/calculate detonation as well as read its O2 sensors (all 4) and gauge what is going on inside the cylinder banks. With regard to the coil packs...the consistence of firing voltage is much more pronounced with this design over a standard dizzy...adding a plug that requires less voltage to fire makes this an even better proposition for good flame kernal. Unfortunately unless there is better MPG I cannot say that swappingmy OEM Laser plats. out for the Iridiums today made any difference at all except hosed me for some time and cash! I can say that I cleaned out my PCV and added an oil catch filter to the system today...curious to see if that was worth the hassel. When I loc-tited the power valve screws I cleaned the intake manifold, and good Lord it was coated (44K) so I can only assume that over the next 44K that I may be cleaner? Or perhaps the other owner used crappy fuel.... The worst part by far to talk about is the crazy guidelines that allow gas pumps to say "___"octane when there is quite a large variable % they are allowed to operate in. I use the Shell V-Power...a couple more cents a gallon but if it truly has extra (they say 5 times) detergent in the gas then I will continue to use it...I am positive I get better mileage with it and maybe it is placebo that the truck runs better...it is not placebo however that the truck ran like a beaten animal when it had the extra toluene in the tank!! If I had access to a dyno without it costing $100 a run I would be more than anxious to see results Edited December 13, 2007 by 02silverpathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 PS those suburb rims look sweet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 yea, dude.... you are confused about what octane actually means. I bet your damn motor will run fine with 75 octane found up in the mountains of colorado.... your o2 sensors dont give 2 craps what 'octane' the fuel is. Your knock sensor 'hears' the detonation from a piezo electric signal and compares it to the current ignition timing. If it senses pre-detonation, the computer will retard the timing to maximize engine performance. Your 'special' spark plugs and 'coil packs' have nothing to do with anything. I have first had experience in tuning many a cars with custom megasquirt ecu's. The difference between 91 and 94 octane in minimal, now the difference between 91 and 115 leaded is large. I'm sorry, dyno it to prove im wrong, but i think your butt dyno is gonna need a recalibration.... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navygz19 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) I bet your damn motor will run fine with 75 octane found up in the mountains of colorado.... You're kidding, right? I'll remember your words of wisdom next time I fill up with crappy 87 octane and hear detonation while attempting to pass a truck on a steep uphill in New England. VQ's require higher octane. Period. Want proof? Drive a VQ Pathy on 87 and then on 93. Proof's in the pudding, or in this case, the fuel. This argument has come up a million times on this board. i think your butt dyno is gonna need a recalibration.... lol. LOL! Edited December 13, 2007 by navygz19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 the reason your car will run better on lower octane in higher elevations is because the atmospheric pressure is lower, thus less air is entering the combustion chamber. you need a fuel that will detonate easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark94XE Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Thank you for the compliment on my rims. The fuel requirement for a 98 Pathy in 87 octane. I don't think you would notice any improvment in performance with using higher octane. You should use a stopwatch and check to see the difference, if any. I would be surprised, but I've been wrong before. For what it's worth, I used 93 octane in my Suby 2.5RS when it said it only required 87. I didn't see any difference in performance, but I did see a slight improvment in fuel mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriskaw440 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I use 93 octane most of the time in my 1990 se and believe me, it runs a hell of a lot better on 93 than it does 87. And before anyone yells at me, I just installed a new knock sensor and O2 sensor on it and it is tuned up to the T (all stock other than K&N cone type air filter). It's not psychological either, I have heard this same thing from many other people that own older rigs. ECU says all clear on codes. the gas mileage does drop a bit on lower octane and it definitly has a little less power..... 240,000+ miles and still going strong....original engine. Plugs are always clean (show normal wear) when I change them and it doesnt leak or burn a drop of oil. In my opinion, the newer models can get by with lower octane due to improvements in everything engine and management related, but the older ones still benefit from the higher octane. As long as monkey boy Bush is in office, gas will always be sky high expensive in any grade!!! just my 2 and 3/4 cents..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark94XE Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I have noticed no difference in performance in my 94XE. As for the fuel prices, look at the bright side, we still have some of the cheapest gas in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 So my Toluene turns into a debate, but has anyone else tried it? I will yield to maybe only VQ's seeing a difference....Navy, give it a shot...Sammy B got to drive the truck with a tank of it....wait until your gas gauge says a hair over 3/4 full and add a gallon, this will make an unscientific 94.??? octane. This is technically 10+ points higher to make just 1 more octane number. Why on earth would Jim Wolf Tech reccommend me using 93 OCT when I had cams installed in my 98?? The cams did not change compression, only how much air and fuel made it into the cylinders. Since you are right about fuel with higher octane having a higher burn rating, it must have something to do with having a complete and cleaner burn. Most gas companies have higher detergent amounts in their higher octane fuel...and added bnefit of running higher octane. Another benefit to running higher octane, that has been avoided in our discussion here. Perhaps a cleaner engine runs better. Incidentally I did run a wideband and Super AFC on my path with cams, and there was NO wiring diagram. I was in fact sucessful and tuned it myself. This doesn't mean that there wasn't room for improvement, just that I am not just some dumba** putting chems in his tank making "Tornado" claims. Why not provide a postitive feedback on something some one has tried...frankly dude I will run whatever in my VQ whether you think it makes a difference or not. I will continue to rave about my home-made plexi heatshield for my intake, the oil catch can that I installed (with filter media) with new PCV that has caught about .25 ounce of oil from going into my intake in only 300 miles, and continue swearing that the best improvement yet was bypassing the coolant to the TB. I will continue to swear by my REVO's, Warn Hubs, Infinity perfect 12's, Memphis brand amps........these are things that I like reguardless of what you think. Until I see something that convinces me that it works better for someone who respects my opinions I probably will continue not caring about their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyb33 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yes, i drove it. and with a lift 32s and some junk in his trunk It did feel much quicker on acceleration, really pushed u back, and i have test driven a few stock VQ pathies and floored them but they didnt respond as well as chris's did. Not saying the Toluene did or did not do anything, but im thinking it was a combination of what he has done to his engine, be it the SWEET plexi heatshield or simple cleaning out of the intake. I will attest to my ass-dyno that it did feel quicker on the uptake even with the lift and 32s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriskaw440 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I just listen to what my mechanics and friends have told me through the years, and shown me engine parts that came from an engine that used cheap oil and low octane gas, versus good name brand oils and higher octane fuels....definitly cleaner parts. I wish I had known I could bypass the coolant lines to the throttle body when I changed my knock sensor! those coolant lines were the biggest pain in the ass to replace due to their location. I figured they are there for a reason so I better just reconnect like they were My '90 has 240,000 plus miles on it and it has to last me for a looooong time still, so I just try to keep everything in check and not try anything much more to try and squeeze out any more HP. As long as mine runs like a champ I'm happy. I dont race, or do hardcore off roading. After doing my knock sensor job and replacing the O2 sensor (who knows how old it was...may have been the original on it!)....I gained about 50 more miles to a tank of gas under normal driving conditions. The toluene thing sounds interesting, (just dont snort it....it will kill your brain cells....) I have even considered trying some pure "white lightening" alcohol from the mtns of west virginia in the gas tank once.......stuff was so pure it burned totally invisible....no flame could be seen but it burned!!! I thought twice about it and then changed my mind. This was when I owned 3 mazda RX-7's and did autocrossing. Like you said, I listen to others and take all opinions and suggestions to heart, but in the long run, if what I am doing with my vehicle works great and makes me happy....then it will take a lot to change my ways unless it was on it's last legs. but..... would I like to have headers and hi-flow cat and muffler on it? hell yes! but my checkbook says "hell no" for now.... peace, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark94XE Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 See, you did not mention any other mods when you started this thread. Camshafts will absolutely change your dynamic compression ratio, although they will not change you static compression ratio. And you didn't say that you fiddled with your ECU. One of the most common things to do when tuning your ECU is to play with the knock sensor threshhold. When you do this (I don't know if you did) you ABSOLUTELY need to run higher octane fuel. Higher than 87 that is. Not know what you had done to you truck, I had assumed that you were talking about a stock motor. You need to clarify before saying that home made 94 octane will outperform 93 octane pump gas. I personally don't think you're on the ragged edge and 1 octane point would make any difference at all, but what do I know, I've only been building and working on high performance cars for 15 years. But yes I would say that you should run high octane in a motor with aftermarket cams and a tuned ECU. And you should lay off the caffine :coffee!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriskaw440 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I just poured some coffee in my tank to see if the caffeine would give some extra kick!!! was this a bad idea? it works on people so I figured why not a reciprocating engine!! nah, I ain't that silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyb33 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 See, you did not mention any other mods when you started this thread. Camshafts will absolutely change your dynamic compression ratio, although they will not change you static compression ratio. And you didn't say that you fiddled with your ECU. One of the most common things to do when tuning your ECU is to play with the knock sensor threshhold. When you do this (I don't know if you did) you ABSOLUTELY need to run higher octane fuel. Higher than 87 that is. Not know what you had done to you truck, I had assumed that you were talking about a stock motor. You need to clarify before saying that home made 94 octane will outperform 93 octane pump gas. I personally don't think you're on the ragged edge and 1 octane point would make any difference at all, but what do I know, I've only been building and working on high performance cars for 15 years. But yes I would say that you should run high octane in a motor with aftermarket cams and a tuned ECU. And you should lay off the caffine :coffee!: what he was referring to was his old 98 pathy that he slapped the cams in it along with minor ECU work. This NEW PATHFINDER WITH THE VQ ENGINE IN IT is basically stock with a cold air intake, and a few other intake cooling mods....otherwise STOCK. Geez read his posts for once and ease up on comments like easy on the caffine, and good for you you've been tuning cars for 15 years, honestly maybe you have maybe you havent (its the internet, not the first time someone has lied), but guaranteed you have not done everything known to man or under the sun to cars in general (im not saying i have either) but my favorite quote is "arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, no matter who wins you are still retarded" so seriously take it for what it is, if you are skeptic go test it yourself with your 15 years of tuning knowledge.... Rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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