DanCamm Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Just went through the whole losing the timing belt at 50 mph. Tore down, replaced the belt, but no such luck on the valves being OK. No compression with the new belt, so I'm going to assume I hosed some of the valves. Pulling the heads is no big deal, but what am I getting into from there? Is it just identifying the bent valves and replacing them? Or am I looking at having to get the heads reworked entirely? This is an 88 SE with 237K on it, and although the truck's in great shape, I don't think I'll be into dumping a ton of money to fix it. Any input would be appreciated.... -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 well, if you're mechanically inclined you can do it yourself. i highly suggest a FSM for the job. you will have to pull pretty much the entire head apart and rebuild it..... but it can be done at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Nothing special about the heads - they are a very straightforward design. If you can successfully get them off, you can definitely handle the rest! Getting the intake and accessory drives on and off are 90% of the work. If the valves are only mildly bent, it is just a matter of using a standard spring compressor to remove the keepers and swap the valves. Of course, it IS possible that a guide may have been cracked or a seat damaged, but I believe that is pretty unlikely. My guides and seats were beautiful. I just cleaned her up, installed new valves and new stem seals, and bolted her back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I just cleaned her up, installed new valves and new stem seals, and bolted her back together. I cant resist.... Was this before or after not torquing the Cam gear bolt and breaking the Cam???? Save me Slick!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) its not too bad...i broke mine doing about 50-55 and hit the clutch as soon as it died...i bent 3 valves at the necks and the guides were all good...just get valves,seats, cam seals, valve cover gaskets, new spring retainers and check all your dimensions to make sure u didnt warp any of the guides...also check the pistons for cracks...mine only left slight dimples on the piston where the valve kissed you will also need lapping compound and a tool to lap the valves in... hope u changed the water pump at the same time too... if u end up needing some heads i have an extra set and i saw that you were in MYB so we could possibly work out something Edited May 21, 2007 by unccpathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) I cant resist.... Was this before or after not torquing the Cam gear bolt and breaking the Cam???? Save me Slick!!!! That would be AFTER our incredibly valuable learning experience. And please, you forgot to mention we broke the cam AND the pulley. Give credit where credit is due, dammit! Edited May 22, 2007 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 just get valves,seats, cam seals, valve cover gaskets, new spring retainers and check all your dimensions to make sure u didnt warp any of the guides...also check the pistons for cracks...mine only left slight dimples on the piston where the valve kissed I think you meant to say seals, not seats? What I purchased and replaced (not counting the aforementioned DOHHH camshaft and pulley): - intake valves (6) - exhaust valves (6) - valve seals (12) - cam seals (2) - head gaskets (2) - valve cover, intake, exhaust, EGR gaskets I found it most cost effective to just buy a full Beck-Arnley head set from Rock Auto. Very good gaskets. And then of course: water pump, belt, belt tensioner, and bypass hose. I did not replace spring retainers. Quick easy way to check valve guides and seats: - Remove old valves. Visually inspect ends of guides for cracks or broken out chunks. If good: - Slide new valve into guide. Twist with fingers while moving up and down. It must spin freely from fully closed point to being open 1/2" or so. - Grab retainer end of valve and wiggle back and forth. A tiny amount of side to side (just enough to be felt, but not really seen) motion is normal. All valves should feel about the same. If it is really noticeable (visible) movement, or if some feel noticeably worse, then it is time to get proper measuring equipment and help. - If all good, lap the new valves in. I use hand operated suction cup lapper. Clean thoroughly. - Install springs and retainers. - Prop the head up on its side with exhaust ports pointing straight up. Fill with water. No dribble into combustion chamber? You're golden. Small dribble, lap again. Big dribble, start crying - something's bad (seat, bent guide, etc.) - Repeat on intake. Can also use water test to check for bent valves. If the port holds water, valve is sealing pretty darn good and all is probably OK. If leaking, something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 yea seals is what i meant... to remove the retainers a small wand magnet makes them easy to remove after the spring has been compressed... ohh yea and there will more than likely be a lot of carbon build up on everything...i used a 3m rotary brush on a drill to clean everything up...put the cylinders at TDC and cleaned them up good to inspect good for cracks...it also helps get the head gasket off pretty easily as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I cant resist.... Was this before or after not torquing the Cam gear bolt and breaking the Cam???? Save me Slick!!!! yer on yer own on this one thomas!!!! hahahahaha... and watch out. martin's comin your way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Dammit Slick! There goes the element of surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ill just remind him that the Cam and Gear only cost him 4 Auto Hub outter Bolts.... So Far... And if that dont work, ill bash him with my Bumper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) Ill just remind him that the Cam and Gear only cost him 4 Auto Hub outter Bolts.... So Far... Ummm... what about my dignity you just threw out in the NPORA trail to be run over and mutilated? Do you have any idea what it is like to be a mechanical engineer and have that happen? Crikey, that little oversight has cost me BIG time. Edited May 22, 2007 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Ummm... what about my dignity you just threw out in the NPORA trail to be run over and mutilated? Do you have any idea what it is like to be a mechanical engineer and have that happen? Crikey, that little oversight has cost me BIG time. No crying in your JD, Slick will you... Didnt you tell us your Nephew forgot to do it???? or were you elaborating on the story???? Try this one on for size.... Getting ready to Draw Closing docs, get a call that the Verification of employment came back and the Borrower is no-longer employed... Fix that You know we might want to get back on Topic before B stumbles on this???? There are a couple of us that have had similar challenges with Valvles, and most of us are happy to Assist When I blew my timing belt I decided it was easier and more cost effective for me to just swap out motors based on everything that I wanted to do to my pathy. There may even be a couple of VG30 Heads laying around if needed. And if you have specific questions and the infamous search is not telling you what your looking for... ASK!!! even Martin can be a useful learning experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Yeah, tightening that bolt was on his list, but as the "master" on the project, I still feel responsibility. I should have made up a checklist and double checked ALL of the critical ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Good Idea for DanCamm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 that's what i usually do... i do a "walk around" after completing a job and double check everything was done, torqued to spec, nothing missing..... this method has saved me on a few occasions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCamm Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Update: Pulled the heads, and there were at least 6 bent valves, as well as other damage. Not worth fixing. I found a set at the local wrecking yard for $100 each, but they had to pull them. I'm picking them up today. Hope to have this thing back together tomorrow. Man, unc, I wish I'd have read your reply sooner. Hadn't really decided if i'm going to spring the 70 bucks for a new TB tensioner. Any thoughts on that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 All I have to say is, if the old one fails somehow you may end up either tearing off the timing cover to replace it or tearing back into the engine to replace the heads again. It's cheap insurance, all things considered. Some people have changed their belt and just run the old one with no problems, but with such a critical part in question I wouldn't take chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Save your old Heads, Martin or someone else may need a replacement Cam... That or Spend your time and got through them yourself.... Port and Polish, JWT Cams ect.... Do you have any pictures for us??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCamm Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Just got back from picking up the heads. They look like they're in relatively good shape. Actually look a little nicer than mine. I'll be cleaning them up tonight, along with everything else, to reassemble tomorrow (gasket kit won't be in till tomorrow a.m.). I'm not planning on doing any kind of disassembly of the heads themselves, just a clean up and bolt them on. I wasn't really planning on replacing the water pump, but after what you guys/gals have said, I think I'll just go ahead and spring for the extra 55 bucks. I'm trying to keep this repair within reason as much as possible. Thanks 88 for the heads up on the tensioner, I guess I'll have to see where I'm at tomorrow. Hadn't taken any pics so far, but I'd be glad to take some during reassembly tomorrow. Also, I picked up my heads from the machine shop who was going to rebuild them, and they have them all disassembled and cleaned. Looks like in addition to the bent valves, I also hosed some rockers and lifters too. The castings and the cams look perfect, though. Also ended up with an extra set of cam gears (they left the ones on the set I bought). Thanks for all the input... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Exhaust Studs.... Might want to swap those out before you put the heads back on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkorahil Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 let us know how it all goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCamm Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 (edited) OK...started last night...(up late) cleaned up the heads and did the new water pump. Pics..... Junkyard heads....cleaned up nice. Actually a lot nicer than I thought. Edited May 26, 2007 by DanCamm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCamm Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 Water pump before/after... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCamm Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 My original heads...castings & cams all cleaned up from the machine shop...let me know if any of y'all need these... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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