VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yeah.. Been a while. Thats for sure. Otherwise, things have been going generally well. Gotten some body work done (from being sideswiped, etc).. So, I mean, the truck is generally been a good truck. Its seems some action since, and been "jounced" around some. Tonight, my wife and I are going out to dinner. Hit the driveway to get into the parking lot, and the engine dies. (wtf) It will not start. Turns over, plenty of juice (its got gas), etc, etc.. I dont have tools, etc.. But I do some quick checks. Screwdriver in a plug wire, turn over the engine.. *check* Its got spark. Listen for fuel pump.. *check* Its workin. I dont have tools to check for pressure, but holding the lines and a rubber hose up front on the injection side of the filter while turning the key to the "on" position, and you could feel the pulsation of the fuel pump. So, we have fuel being delivered to the injectors.. Um.. So why arent the injectors firing? (Considering we have spark) Why suddenly, during this little bump into the driveway of the restaraunt, would the injectors not fire anymore? I havent checked relays yet, but will tomorrow. (There are some under the hood, and I tapped on them, but beyond that, its cold and rainy) Otherwise, fuses are good. What are some more commonly loose connectors that I can check out? Or, has anyone run into this issue before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 These V6s have a timing belt, or chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) belt crappy. Thats not really what I wanted to hear.. Otherwise. The next question would be, is there anyway to check the function of the belt (other than tearing into it?) such as a chevy small block distributor drive off the camshaft? (broken chain = camshaft not turning showing no rotation in the distributor?) Very much sounds like what happened. It makes sense to extent. The only thing that bothers me, is that even if the valvetrain was stuck (broken belt) wouldnt the engine make some sort of indication that fuel and spark are still being delivered to the cylinders? Dont want to say sputter, but when turning over the engine, say an intake valve was stuck open, wouldnt we hear some noise in the intake (piston drawing air, and the throwing air back out?) Edit : Then calling Napa, the belt isnt expensive, but they inform me this is an interference engine. (meaning if the belt breaks, and valves are stuck open that pistons will contact valves, breaking things, and making one hell of a racket.) The engine makes no such noise when cranked over, and didnt make any sudden noises when it quit. So.. Either Napa is full of crap or they have the wrong information and this engine isnt an interference engine. Edited December 13, 2006 by VW_Factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) oh it most definately IS an interference engine. IF you crank the shaft by hand and put the timing mark at tdc, you could pull your number 1 plug and drop in a screwdriver then watch it's movement as you crank by hand. I'm sure there could me many other causes so I wouldn't go tearing the front of the engine apart yet. if your distributer died, you could still get spark but just not at the right time. When you are at TDC (or 5 degrees before), you cn also pull the dist cap and look at where the electrodes are. should be ready to fire on no 1 Edited December 13, 2006 by k9sar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Which spark plug wire did you take off? The one from the coil, or one of the ones from the sparkplugs? If it was from one of the sparkplugs, Your timing belt is fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Pull the distributor cap and crank it to see if it still moves. That will rule out the timing belt. Check the wiring plug for your distributor as well, just in case. The crank angle sensor inside is what fires the injectors and determines timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) Which spark plug wire did you take off? The one from the coil, or one of the ones from the sparkplugs? If it was from one of the sparkplugs, Your timing belt is fine.... I checked a wire at the plug. Front left cylinder (facing the engine from the front,it was easiest to get too in the dark and cold). Pulled the cap off as suggested and watched for rotation, and it does rotate. Means that the timing belt is still attached.. lol. (it was replaced maybe 30k ago, so I was really doubting it broke). So.. Thats the good news.. The bad news.. Well, I still dont know why she wont start. I really wish it wasnt all cold rainy outside. But, now that its light outside, I'll be looking into wiring/connectors around the ignition system. Is there a relay or anything that runs the injectors? If so, which one/ones so that I might be able to switch out a good working relay from something else, to see if she fires up? Then I can just replace the relay. (That would make me happy.. -bounce- ) Edited December 13, 2006 by VW_Factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I guess as well if its not a simple fix (connectors or relays), I should take a look into the possiblity that the belt jumped a tooth. Think that would confuse the computer enough to not get fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 pull a plug and see if it's wet with gas. If so, your injector(s) are firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 pull a plug and see if it's wet with gas. If so, your injector(s) are firing. All 6 are dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Okay, so you checked the fuel situation right? Said that you felt pulsation in the line with the key in the "on" position...... Seems like for some reason the injectors aren't firing. Could possibly be the crank angle sensor as 88 suggested. Do you know anyone with a 1990-1995 Pathfinder you can borrow a distributor from? A quick swap could tell you all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Okay, so you checked the fuel situation right? Said that you felt pulsation in the line with the key in the "on" position...... Seems like for some reason the injectors aren't firing. Could possibly be the crank angle sensor as 88 suggested. Do you know anyone with a 1990-1995 Pathfinder you can borrow a distributor from? A quick swap could tell you all you need to know. I double checked fuel pressure.. There is definately pressure, and it tastes like gas. lol.. Otherwise, no. I dont know anyone with another pathy to borrow a distributor from. I dont even know anyone else with a truck. (Im the guy everyone calls for help moving, and towing trailers, etc) After checkin all this stuff, and putting the cap back on the dizzy, etc. I cranked it over a few times and it fired on a few cylinders (didnt start) and that was all the life she showed, before the battery gave up. I'm goin to put the battery on the charger here and figure out what to do about a possible dizzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriskaw440 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Have you tried using foul language on it yet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 shoot some carb cleaner in the intake just to make sure your not getting fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Have you tried using foul language on it yet?? I called it a Ford.. Otherwise.. I'll try some cleaner/starting fluid, see if it sputters a bit like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yeah.. Got a little action out of it with adding fluid. Ok. Why cant I replace the module inside the distributor? (or the crank sensor?) Doesnt appear to be built in. Everything appears to be held in together with screws. Anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Well.. Now Im just kinda stuck at a point, where Im going to have to start blindly throwing money at this. Unless there are other ways of testing the crank sensor or ignition module on the bottom of the dizzy, Im just going to have to start buying new parts, and hoping it runs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 My 93 has been having trouble firing up as well. It'll turn over and over and then finally start firing but very rough and you have to give it alot of gas to get it going properly but thats only if its left off for more than a few days. Im going to try some injector cleaner and see if that clears up the problem but hey maybe my ignition is going out as well. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hmmmm. Have you run the ECU error codes to see if anything comes up? There's a pinned topic on how to do that in the Garage section under How-To's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Run the codes if you haven't already. If the crank angle sensor is gone, it will show up in the codes. Mine was a similar problem... driving along, turned a corner and the engine cut out. Turns out it was the c.a. sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 alright man, if you shot some carb cleaner in the intake and it started that means the ign system is probably working. you are looking at a fuel problem. no injector dwell/not enough fuel pressure. hook a dwell light or a small lamp up to one of the injector plugs to test injecotr dwell or listen to an injector with a stethescope. if thats fine test your fuel pressure. throwing money at it is for ghey dudes. stay away from that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW_Factor Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 In response to three.. Yes I did pull codes. That was the first thing I figured I would try (hoping the computer would be smart enough) It throws a 55 (over and over again) and according to the code chart, that is the computer telling me all is well. I found the PDF format repair manual, and checked through the troubleshooting for the CPS. (Says in camshaft position in there). Pulled the dizzy and checked it out with the multimeter. Checked out fine. Reinstalled the dizzy. Indeed. I havent measured fuel pressure as I dont have a tool for doing that, but I do know there is pressure (and quite a bit of it) It may be perhaps time to invest in that tool. Its pooring rain today, so I either need to pull the coach out of the barn, or just leave it for a bit until the rain passes. Yeah, I really want to stay away from throwing money at the problem, because I know in a fuelie like this, you could put 1k in or more and still get no where fast. Reading through the factory PDF, during a start condition, the ECU pulses each injector twice per cycle until the engine is fired. (like givin her a squirt in the carb). I charged the battery yesterday and put another 3 mins. or so of cranking time into it. Once, it kinda half assed fired on a couple cylinders for a cycle. Giving me a false hope that I had made some progress. So.. I feel next step is get a pressure measurment tool to see if the fuel pressure is within specifications. In the end, its starting to sound more and more like it could just be the ECU just up and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yozsi Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 take my advice and check the damn injector dwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now