Little Mule Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Hey All, Sorry I've not been too active on the site for a while. Wife and I had 2 kids (she did most of the work) and I started a new business. It took pretty much all of my free time lately for the last couple years. Now, I'm think I'm at a crossroads with my 88 Pathfinder. It's at the mechanic right now. I suspect it's the transmission. She's at the 190,000 mile mark and she wasn't making a pretty noise. Do I invest in a new truck, or put more money in into my Pathfinder? I'm pretty tired of the lack of power. Not that I want race or anything, but I just about have to redline it in 3rd gear just to go 60mph up the hill towards Flagstaff AZ. Spending 5K on it is still cheaper than a new truck, but what headaches may I encounter? So I did a search of NPORA regarding swapping the engine for a Chevy 350 engine. I found bits and pieces in this thread and that thread, but found no definite thread about it. I also found a few threads from people stating that they were going to do it, but they seemed drop off the face of the earth. Does anyone know of a specific thread that gives all the details of what is needed to be done? Does anyone know someone who has actually done it? Were they happy that they did it, or was it a total nightmare? What I've seemed to pick up about the 350 engine swap is this: 1. You must also replace the transmission with the Chevy. 2. You must get an adapter to connect the transmission to the drive axle. (Where do you get the adapter? Do you need to modify the drive axle?) 3. You will need to get a Chevy computer and all the wiring to connect it to the engine. 4. You will need a 3in Suspension lift, and a 3in body lift for clearance of the engine/transmission, and to support the heavier engine. 5. You will need to modify the exhaust to fit the new engine. 6. You don't necessarily need to change the differential, but there is increase risk of blowing it out due to the increased horsepower. 7. What about connecting to the front (4 wheel drive differential)? Am I wrong about any of the above? And what am I forgetting? If I do try this, belive me I will be posting a lot questions for you guys. My mechanical skills are moderate at best, and I'd be working with 2 buddies who have very good mechanical skills w/ old Dodges/Chryslers, but limited experience with Nissan. Thanks for any help. -alcohol- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLApathy Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 To be honest, if those you are asking those questions it best to leave it alone, PLEASE dont take me wrong, but I think its best to leave in alone for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Ah, it's not that bad, but it does cost a bit. The adapter people were talking about is to let you bolt a 350 to the Nissan transmission, not the axle. You need: A Chevy 350/4.3/whatever. If you get a modern FI engine, then you also need the ECU and some wiring to go with. A carbed 350 would be very easy, no ECU and only a few wires to hook up. Engine mounts to adapt the Nissan frame to the 350. Relocated radiator/bigger radiator. A 3" body lift would definitely help, but a 3+3 isn't *necessary* AFAIK. If you go with a Chevy tranny/t-case, you'll need to get the driveshafts modified to fit both ends. Also, you'll need to make sure you use a t-case with a driver's side drop for the driveshaft cause that's where the front axle is on a Nissan. If you can find an Advance Adapters adapter you can use the Nissan trans/t-case with the 350. They're about $900, though. Transmission crossmember needs modification to bolt to the Chevy setup. Exhaust manifolds to fit the 350 AND fit in the Pathfinder's cramped engine compartment(I guess the cast-iron truck manifolds work IIRC). I may be forgetting some things, but that's the gist of it. People HAVE done it before, but for the most part it's folks with another vehicle to drive and a lot of time to invest in the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Oh, and the rear axle will take quite a bit of power. The H233B axle has been said to be on a level with a Ford 9" rear diff. Good stuff. The front, however... I'd invest in replacement CV's or a junkyard diff before trying anything too extreme with a 350 in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdhicks99 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I would go one step further than 88 and do a SAS before adding a V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spolar93 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 to go with 88path's statements: -a 3" bodylift is needed unless you can find a large cowl hood. -any block hugger-style headers will work. i know hooker and hedman make sets for the 350 -gotta find someway to rrwire the dash gauges to work with the new engine you also get a MUCH larger selection of trannies and tcases. and if you go manual, theres even less wiring you need to go through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 Ah, it's not that bad, -88 I'll remember that this comes from the man who can figure out how to put a Quest Altenator in his Pathfinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 To be honest, if those you are asking those questions it best to leave it alone, PLEASE dont take me wrong, but I think its best to leave in alone for awhile. Yeah, I've known this from the beginning. And if it were me alone, there is no way I'd attempt it. However, my helpers are a lot more experienced than I am. Still I won't attempt unless they are confident that they can help me complete it. (One of them has completely restored a Barracuda, a Charger, and owns an independent autoparts store and shop. He and the other friend are doing the final touches in completely restoring a 1966 Chrysler Satelite.) I've seen their work. If it wer a Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler, I'd know they would have no problems. I'm just trying to get a solid idea of what it would involve before attempting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) You need: "Engine mounts to adapt the Nissan frame to the 350." --------Where do you get them or do you need to fabricate them? "Relocated radiator/bigger radiator." ---------Suggestions for a radiator? Where can you relocate it? "If you go with a Chevy tranny/t-case, you'll need to get the driveshafts modified to fit both ends. Also, you'll need to make sure you use a t-case with a driver's side drop for the driveshaft cause that's where the front axle is on a Nissan. If you can find an Advance Adapters adapter you can use the Nissan trans/t-case with the 350. They're about $900, though. Transmission crossmember needs modification to bolt to the Chevy setup." --------Where do you find the adapter? AC's website? I like this idea better. I have a manual transmission, so this just sounds like it makes the job easier. Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming. Edited September 14, 2006 by Little Mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 -gotta find someway to rrwire the dash gauges to work with the new engine Hmmm. I didn't think about that. How do you go about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 If you go ahead and do it you will have to change your name. Something along the lines of.... lets see...... BIG ponies comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I just have to ask... Have you considered building up a nice 3.0E motor with 3.3 heads, cams, port and polish, headers, freeflow exhaust and reprogrammed ECU ? I'm sure it could be done for less than $2k and that should put you in the 200+hp range... Still not the same as a 350, but MUCH cheaper and easier. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 I just have to ask... Have you considered building up a nice 3.0E motor with 3.3 heads, cams, port and polish, headers, freeflow exhaust and reprogrammed ECU ? I'm sure it could be done for less than $2k and that should put you in the 200+hp range... Still not the same as a 350, but MUCH cheaper and easier. B No' I haven't considered this. I didn't think that there was a way to get 200hp out of these old things. I know you can put headers on, get the TBI polished, free flow exhaust, a few other things, buy my understanding is that you would only get marginal horsepower improvements. (Perhaps around 25 more.) But I'm listening. Is this true? I also tend to be skeptical when is see "Product X will give you 10-20 more horsepower!" In my mind I think that translates to 1-2 more horsepower. So, I guess I'm asking can you vouche for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) Another big consideration are your smog check regulations... What testing do you have to go through? And if 200 hp would be enough, I would also suggest going down the path that Precise alludes to. Just upgrading to the "E" model MPFI from a '90+ will make a noticeable difference. Time to keep eyes peeled for a '90-'95 recently totaled pathy (or one with burned up automatic) to use as a donor! They're cheap, and that way you get the MPFI, fuel pump, ECU, sensors, etc etc etc. That's my phase II plan for my '88. Phase I was to get it drivable. Edited September 14, 2006 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 No' I haven't considered this. I didn't think that there was a way to get 200hp out of these old things. I know you can put headers on, get the TBI polished, free flow exhaust, a few other things, buy my understanding is that you would only get marginal horsepower improvements. (Perhaps around 25 more.) But I'm listening. Is this true? I also tend to be skeptical when is see "Product X will give you 10-20 more horsepower!" In my mind I think that translates to 1-2 more horsepower. So, I guess I'm asking can you vouche for that? Shoot, you can pull nearly 300 HP out of a VG30 with no forced induction. The turbo 300Z's can push 400 with tuning/parts. Get cams, headers, exhaust, intake, port/polish the heads, smooth the intake, MSD/Jacobs ignition, and perhaps a modded ECU... That's the short list, hehehe. They did it with a VG33 for the Project Pathfinder on Nissanperformancemag.com. http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/september03/pathfinder/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 You need: "Engine mounts to adapt the Nissan frame to the 350." --------Where do you get them or do you need to fabricate them? AC had them, Aggressive Offroad made them, I haven't kept up on the subject. Making them yourself wouldn't be THAT hard if you had at least a picture to go by and the time to try it out. "Relocated radiator/bigger radiator."---------Suggestions for a radiator? Where can you relocate it? Under the stock rad support is where it usually goes. You'd have to measure and see how much room there is in there or what you'd need to cut out or modify to get a good radiator to fit. A custom radiator comes to mind... "If you go with a Chevy tranny/t-case, you'll need to get the driveshafts modified to fit both ends. Also, you'll need to make sure you use a t-case with a driver's side drop for the driveshaft cause that's where the front axle is on a Nissan. If you can find an Advance Adapters adapter you can use the Nissan trans/t-case with the 350. They're about $900, though. Transmission crossmember needs modification to bolt to the Chevy setup." --------Where do you find the adapter? AC's website? I like this idea better. I have a manual transmission, so this just sounds like it makes the job easier. AC had them, but I recall hearing that Advance Adapters quit making them. You might try calling AA to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 mws has a very good point... SMOG laws !! But "up the hill to flagstaff" makes me think you are out of the test zones. Regardless, I could do all that I mentioned in Cali (other than ECU and perhaps cams) and still pass smog laws. No' I haven't considered this. I didn't think that there was a way to get 200hp out of these old things. I know you can put headers on, get the TBI polished, free flow exhaust, a few other things, buy my understanding is that you would only get marginal horsepower improvements. (Perhaps around 25 more.) But I'm listening. Is this true? I also tend to be skeptical when is see "Product X will give you 10-20 more horsepower!" In my mind I think that translates to 1-2 more horsepower. So, I guess I'm asking can you vouche for that? Yes, I can vouche for that. No, I haven't done all that to my truck. What I meant was getting a 3.0VGe motor ('90+ with MPFI). Thats 150+hp right there. Put on 3.3L heads (lets assume 10hp for a 10% displacement increase), port and polish (5 hp?) smog legal headers (8 hp?) coupled with free flow exhaust (4 hp?) and a good intake (3 hp?). Ignition, like 88 said to make it burn nice and it equals 180 hp already. At almost 200k with the TBI I bet you don't have 135hp. The reason thats the reason I suggested a newer version motor and even used it'll have 1/2 the miles (hopefully). The motor is just an air pump, but I can tell mine is fighting restrictions both in and out (mostly in though). Remember though, you are climbing at altitude. My Pathy starts to suffer at 4k+. More INTAKE !!! More INTAKE !!! By the way, there are threads about everything I have suggested. If you cant find it, let me know. While a 350 would be cool, a newer massaged 3.0 motor with better accessories would probably make you as happy as a pig in... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Advance Adapters has some engine mounts for a Chevy 4.3L V6 listed on the site and in the online catalog Engine Mounts : CHEVY 4.3 V6-NISSAN 86 & UP 4WD Can't hurt to call and ask about V8 compatibility or other offerings for that application. While you have them on the phone, you can also ask about the engine/transmission or transmission/transfer case adapters. ---------------------------------------------------------- That said, I also align myself with the VG30e options mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Mule Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) I assume a VG30e would not require an adapter to fit my 88 tranny. Is this right? If I find a VG30e from an automatic, it will still fit my manual tranny with no problems, right? The VG33 is 1996-2000, correct? What other differences are there between the VG33 and the VG30e? Why not just go with a VG33 and modify it? I'll read that article that 88 linked regarding Project Pathfinder with a VG33. Thanks for the reference. You guys have convinced me that this is probably a better way to go than the 350. Easier is better. 200 hp is adequate. (I do like the 240hp in my 01 Pathfinder, and that is about what I consider as a goal.) If I could get similar performance from my 88 Pathy, I might pee my pants the first time I step on the gas pedal. -bounce- As for the smog, I do need to be concerned with that. I live in metro Phoenix. Up the hill to Flagstaff is just where a lot of people go to cool off in the summer. (Phoenix = 1200 feet and 110 degrees, Flagstaff = 7000+ feet and about 75 degrees.) Its about 2 hours north of Phoenix on a 75mph Interstate. Which means everyone goes 80+ while I have it floored in 3rd gear. :sniff: Edited September 17, 2006 by Little Mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLApathy Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) a 3.3 head wont fit a 3.0 block, different water passages. Although a drill will solve this. To put a 3.3 into you truck 1) Take the 3.3 block, heads, and pistons 2) Take your 3.0 crank and accs. and intake and injection 3) Put you 3.0 crank into the 3.3, bolt up pistons 4) Put the 3.0 intake and injection onto the 3.3 5) Drop 3.3 into place Edited September 17, 2006 by FLApathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I assume a VG30e would not require an adapter to fit my 88 tranny. Is this right? Same engine different intake. Any Pathfinder/Hardbody tranny made for a VG30 will bolt right up. VG33 matched trannys should also work, but you may have to deal with wiring and mounting differences because they were originally in another generation vehical If I find a VG30e from an automatic, it will still fit my manual tranny with no problems, right? Yes, but there is a bushing/spacer that may need to be removed. Slick has personal experience with this What other differences are there between the VG33 and the VG30e? Why not just go with a VG33 and modify it? I'll read that article that 88 linked regarding Project Pathfinder with a VG33. Thanks for the reference. VG33 block with VG30 heads, makes for teh easiest upgrade using a VG33. If you want to use the intake from a 33 then you will have to aquire the wiring harness and all of the sensors for the 33. Then you will have to make it fit and work in the Pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Here we go with the 33 heads on a 30 block you don't want that. If you were to combine the two engines you would want the 33 block and 30 heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLApathy Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) If you want to use the intake from a 33 then you will have to aquire the wiring harness and all of the sensors for the 33. Then you will have to make it fit and work in the Pathy. Yeah, you would have to do a wiring harness swap Here we go with the 33 heads on a 30 block you don't want that. If you were to combine the two engines you would want the 33 block and 30 heads. which is what i said, since ppl are telling him to do it opps, actually i said 33 heads AND block, with 30 intake and injection (to keep the same wiring harness) or you could get crazy and swap vg33ER and then swap the m65 (or is it 60?) for an m90 (not sure about this yet though) or get the L&P SC when its ready Oh yeah, if you do put 3.3 heads on your 3.0 and you made sure the water jackets are lined up right, put your 3.0 cams back in, the 3.3 cams arent the greatest Edited September 17, 2006 by FLApathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 a 3.3 head wont fit a 3.0 block, different water passages. Although a drill will solve this. To put a 3.3 into you truck 1) Take the 3.3 block, heads, and pistons 2) Take your 3.0 crank and accs. and intake and injection 3) Put you 3.0 crank into the 3.3, bolt up pistons 4) Put the 3.0 intake and injection onto the 3.3 5) Drop 3.3 into place I thought the plan was simply to swap the 3.3 shortblock in and use the intake, injection and sensors for the 3.0 on it. No head swapping last I heard. And what's this about swapping cranks? What for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 And what's this about swapping cranks? Drive pullys are different on a 3.3, If you swap the crank you get to use all the 3.0 timing gears and AC/PS/ALT.... Atleast I remember reading that from the guy that swapped the 3.3 into the HB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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