Slartibartfast Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Compression test wouldn't hurt anything, but you might just have a coolant leak somewhere else (besides that big hole in your rad). My friend's van had a bad hose that we didn't know about and it would run great until the coolant level dropped, then overheat horribly. If it didn't drive any differently while overheating, and there's no mixing of oil and coolant, I would suspect the hoses more than I'd suspect the head gaskets. Does seem odd that the radiator cap didn't let the pressure out. I guess the hard starting while warm could be the head gasket, but it seems like that would be a single cylinder giving you issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) ya, your thermostat probably petered out, or ^ said about the coolant leak. bad luck either way. If the TB was done 30k ago, hopefully they did water pump and bypass hose along with the thermostat. would be nice as u suggested. Although it is a consideration about the head gasket, and it can just leak from cooling channel to cylinder and such, i dont hear about too many head gasket bad joo joos with these. Hope you get er back on the road soon. I guess get er running, compression check er, and double check the little hoses that caused issues the first time. I figure if your head gasket was leaking it would be throwing misfire codes by now. so although keep that in mind, i would be looking elsewhere for your warm start issue. Hope you get her fixed soon. Im running out of suggestions.. ;P Pat P.S. when i bought my thermostat, i bought the kind thats engineered to fail open if it fails. would rather take a long time warming up or not get all the way upto op temp than have my radiator explode going down the road, that had to suck. Edited November 16, 2014 by fixinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The only reason I'm throwing out the head gasket idea is because I have a pathfinder sitting in my garage right now that did the exact same thing. I put a new radiator in it and it will drive for about 10 minutes and you'll lose heat and the temp flies up...Found exhaust gas in the coolant. Hope yours is easier to fix but just be careful. I have no oil or coolant mixing. There are a number of was it can fail, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 ^ ya i can see that, exhaust leaking into coolant = over pressurizing = bad joo joo for radiator. wow i hope that isnt what happend, would be reallly really bad luck, and when u get it together, u still have the hard start hot issue. hasn't been a good few months for you jeff. Sorry for all your misfortunes. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 perhaps the head gasket had blown prior, (and the only symptom was with the hard starts), although I doubt that that would have caused the 'no heat' at the heater just prior to the fail. ? I suppose if the water pump took a dump that could have caused this.. (no heat at heater followed by overheat and burst). My plan - new radiator, new thermostat. + power flush. (if I start her up and it turns out to be the water pump, I can do that teardown/install with the radiator in place) then compression test / or exhaust/ coolant test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) I would do the exhaust in the coolant test first. Just to rule it out. Then you'll know where to go from there. The water pumps don't generally fail on these other than leaks and noise. I have seen them snap off before but that would cause the fan to become one with your radiator. Good luck, and keep us updated. Edited November 18, 2014 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 most of the coolant is on the ground looks like =( If your going far enough to do the thermostat, may as well do the WP while the junk is out of your way. "unless" you plan on trying to do it leaving the pulleys and such on the vehicle. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Finally! Was able to get the Rad and thermostat installed. Saved some cash by ordering the manual tranny rad as opposed to the auto. 58$ vs 120+-$ teardown to get to the thermostat was basically the ac belt and pulley assembly - easy peasy. Did have to start the engine to get the collant to flow out the top screw on the intake and purge the air out of the coolant. ...seems ok! Driven her to work the past few days and started first crank each time. (knocking wood). Also temp has not risen above halfway- just like normal. Still want to do the block or compression test but it would seem that the thermostat was the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 congratz. good thing u got the manual rad, the auto one has places to hook up the trans lines Happy to hear you got it running right again. wouldnt sweat the compression check if it feels normal and all, it would run "different" if you had a head gasket leak. May wanna do the exhaust gas in the rad test just to be safe. But if it feels right and its running normal. The thing you have to tell yourself is.....if its not broken....dont "fix" it. hehe. Really happy to hear you got er going. Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Huge find yesterday. I noticed while hot that the top rad hose looked way too 'poofed out' - I could tell the sys was under too much pressure, well, then I realized after some checking that the hose from the rad cap to the coolant reservior was clogged tight with some weird fibrous material. - cleared the clog and then could see a few bubbles in the res, but then they stopped. Wow Ill tell you that coolant was under so much pressure Im pretty sure that would cause some HG issues. But! no more bubbles and running fine. probably been that way since I bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 So, since cleaning the clogged coolant res line last weekend, no starting fluid required! Im thinking that the coolant could not expand nor contract as designed + was doing both through wherever the weakest point in the system was. (maybe into a cylinder, somewhere in the intake?) She sure seems to be in a better mood lately. If I can ditch the starting fluid that would sure be a great xmas present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 wow a clogged coolant overflow hose? i gotta research that for sure, its the strangest thing i have heard to date about the pathy. lol well if it fixed you up, congratz bud. "again" very interesting problem you had there for sure. but hopefully u can ditch that starting fluid. happy holidays and Merry Christmas pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Thanks Pat! yep its been a headscratcher - I appreciate everyones help Merry Christmas! ...AND A HAPPY 4 WHEELING NEW YEAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 ok, new news about my 97. Found that the vacuum cut valve between the fuel tank and the evap canister is flowing both ways. (apparently not preventing manifold vacuum from reaching the gas tank.) -interestingly I went to the junkyard and they had 2 r50s (both with the vacuum cut valves leaking just like mine). Perhaps a typical fail on these? Yep looks like a new part on order for me. 57$ online vs 150$ at the stealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 well thats good to hear for sure, "that u found a bad part" Because i was still trying to wrap my head around the overflow hose fixing it lol. At least you found it, sounds like a solid lead. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Were is the vacuum cut valve located ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 its in front of the rear axle, sorta hidden up on top of a little plate shelf between the canister and the fuel tank. Since finding the issue with the valve, Ive been releasing the pressure at the tank by removing the cap before and after driving, and have not had a hard start. sometimes the 'whoosh' pressure release does seem excessive. Ill be ordering the valve tonight.. Ill report back after install in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Interesting, my WD usually whooshes a bit when I open the cap, but IIRC other rigs I've gassed up acted the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Still waiting for my cut valve, but .. warm weather and errands yesterday gave me hard start again but I really think Im getting there. 1st start - a-ok. drive to the store, come back out, open the cap to release pressure, (not much there). Then I crank it, (no start). Also notice a "glug-glug" noise associated with the fuel pump priming. Open the cap again? "whoooosh". Prime the pump a few times until the "glug-glug" stops- she starts right up again. has to be intake pressure getting to the fuel tank and causing havoc?. cant wait to see this little plastic angel solve my crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 OK!! - PROBLEM SOLVED!! Yep havent used starting fluid at all since the installation of the new cut valve. Intake manifold vacuum was getting to the fuel tank which was causing the hard warm starts. been over a month with varying temps- given her many opportunities to mess up but she starts every time. Yipee!! Now she gets a new set of 31's here in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Update - she has not had a hard start since replacing the cut valve between the fuel tank and the intake, HOWEVER - Still starts and runs great in the AM. When I warm it up, park it for a little bit, (especially in hot sun) - I get a shaky idle and a po302 po325 blinking CEL. -turn her off, restart, usually after one or two tries the misfire clears. I read in another forum that someone had this same issue and discovered a corroded evap line from the canister to the purge valve, but man my line seems to look just fine - no rust no corrosion + no evap codes at all. figured it might be #2 injector either leaking or clogged, so, yep I removed the pain in the arse manifold replaced it + all the litlle vacuum lines associated with the intake with new lines - No avail! Still misfiring after getting to temp and parking her. shes had new disty, plug wires, plugs, fuel filter, fuel pump all within past year Runs fine once the misfire clears- only seems to be an issue after I park her for a few. freeze frame on my reader shows short term fuel trim #1 as -7.8 and short term fuel trim #2 as +14.1 (not sure if this is issue or?) - just about ready to take her to the stealership and drop my drawers. Edited June 5, 2015 by JeffsR50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 also has brand new upstream o2 sensors.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 IF it is only the number 2 cylinder. It has to be isolated to that one. I would probably inspect the wiring to the injector from the harness. If you have an ohm meter, or a test light just find the pin on the ecu that is a control wire for the injector #2 make sure it is doing its job. I would say just check it at the injector but with the 3.3l and the 3.0, and probably the 3.5 we all know its a huge pain in the but to get down there, plus the intake would be off when you can get to the plug. Not the easiest thing to do "pulling the ecu" and metering to make sure it is sending signal to ground the injector to activate it. Being that it clears up after getting going it is really a head scratcher. compression check that one cylinder and compare it to number one before u start the truck after its been sitting in the sun. unless you have damage internal to the dizzy cap at the number 2 post. "think you said it was new" wow, you pathy is being super naughty. =( be sure to talk nice to her while your looking at it. usually works on stubborn stuff. ;P i really hope you get it figured out. i would start to be getting frusterated at this point too. but the stealership would probably charge you a bucket of money just to go down and take a look because of removing the intake thing. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixinto Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I had another thought. Maybe its throwing a bank 2 misfire instead of a cylinder 2? look at the trims on all of the even cylinders see if they are large. -6 idle "ok" plus 14 idle WAY not ok. sounds like it is flooding out bank two during start up. the reason it does it warm is because the O2 sensors are active and it is reading a lean condition. so it sprays more fuel. this is classic intake gasket leak symptom. or clogged fuel rail on 2nd bank or perhaps a defective fuel regulator since bank 2 is furthest from the rail. Just a thought and a few things to consider before giving the stealership 800000000000000 dollars. You sound super resourceful and there are many many videos on finding a vacuum leak on the web. hope it is something easy like that. but hard to say. the way the intakes are put together it would be a little difficult to just leak on bank 2, although possible. Like i said check 2 / 4 / 6 fuel trims and see if they r all reporting lean. If they are, yep you guessed it, swap your O2's from side to side and see if the problem follows them. then u have it. I dont trust new parts 100 percent. I had to order 3 new waterpumps before i got a good one and lucky i checked them over before installation because i would have been pissed. lol Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffsR50 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 thx for the info Pat much appreciated - yep Ill see if I can get a little more diagnostics - my cheapo code reader only does so much. I did put my stethoscope on injector #2 during the misfire - seems to be clicking away just fine so Im leaning away from the injector wire but yep the fuel trim thing is interesting + I do have a different distributor cap now that you mention it - might just swap that thing for giggles n see what happens. Yep she does have a few bugs still but still she grows on me - I must just dig spooky chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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