the rig Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I am looking to add another battery to the system. question 1. should I get the high amp alt. first? 2. what battery kit have any of guys used? 3. of you guys that have a dual battery setup, where did you find to put the second battery. I have yet to decided what location would be the most out of the way. Since I am using optima's I was also thinking somewhere underneath the body............ decisions decisions. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) 1.bigger alternator is not required, its nice..... but not required. 2.redarc smart solenoid. - cheap but VERY effective! been running one for easily over two years redarc smart solenoid 3.my second battery is on the other side of the engine bay at the front, but then again theres not really anything stock about my engine bay...... havent got any pics on me at the mo, i will try and get some tomorrow Edited February 19, 2006 by sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rig Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Sweet. Would love to see your setup. Which brings me to another question; what induction setup do you have?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 wait for my pic, you will then understand what i mean by not stock air is fed by a snorkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 A word of advice: 99% of the people you talk to say to install a "solid state battery isolator". Even a lot of so-called experts. I advise you to NOT listen to them. These solid state isolators use large diodes to isolate the batteries from each other when the engine is off. They do this very well. And they do it automatically, reliably, and quite inexpensively. That's why they're so popular. Sounds perfect, eh? Unfortunately, diodes have an undesirable feature: They drop the voltage by about 0.6 volts as it passes through. Not a big deal most of the time. But in a battery isolation scheme in a vehicle car, it is. Since your alternator output goes through these diodes, your charging voltage drops by 0.6 volts - which means your charging rate goes down as well. Net result, it takes much longer to recharge. Depending on your alternator output, maybe twice as long to replenish after discharging. Of course, if you have an adjustable output regulator on your alternator (rare), just crank it up by 0.6 volts and everything is dandy. What happens to that 0.6 volts? Dissipated as heat. That's why solid state isolators have such large heatsinks - to radiate away all that wasted energy. Instead, use a purpose built continuous duty solenoid like sw recommended (that is the best solution, IMO) or a very large manual switch. Most marine supply shops stock them as they are commonly used in large battery banks on boats. Make sure you get one rated at least 200 amps continuous for safety. BTW, why do you want to add the extra battery? A lot of people go to the expense of the extra battery when what they really need is more alternator output. The only time you need to add a battery is if you run loads for extended periods with the engine off (stereo or lights), or very heavy loads with the engine at low RPM (winch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Here's a not too bad link: http://www.jerrylabella.com/ship_shape2.htm He refers to the solenoid as an integrator. It needs to be rated higher than your peak alternator output - 90 or so amps is plenty for stock, at least 120 amps if you plan to upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 good point there on the voltage issues, mws i use my second battery, which is a deep cycle battery, to power up the fridge for camping. when the fridge isnt in the car the second battery pretty much does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Lastly, here's the battery switch I use in Frankenvan: http://www.cgedwards.com/Perko/pko13.html This is far and away the cheapest option, but has a couple limitations: - You have to remember to operate the switch to isolate the battery you don't want to discharge. - It must be rated to handle the peak drain current as well as peak charge current. 250 amp should cover starter just fine, but if you plan to add a winch, check its demands carefully. - There is a very real chance of damaging the alternator if you switch it to off while the engine is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 i use my second battery, which is a deep cycle battery, to power up the fridge for camping. when the fridge isnt in the car the second battery pretty much does nothing. That's a perfect application for a second "house" battery! We use ours for camping as well. In our case, I have an additional 2 deep cycles that are used to supplement the 2 already in the trailer. 4 deep cycles can keep us going for several days without firing up the generator. Or a full weekend if we need to use the furnace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 alright pics... starting battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 second battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 second battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 second battery.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 this is an earlier pic of when the engine and trans swap was complete (complete pffft isnt that a novel idea) without the second battery istalled, showing the tray. several support straps hold the end of the tray in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 just for added value... some pics of the distribution block , fuse rack and t-socket for the fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) again heres a much earlier pic, while the swap was going on. showing the top of the air box and inlet pipe for the snorkel Edited February 21, 2006 by sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabod7 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 nice set up. most of the dual batterys being run by guys in the offroad club im in have them ghetto fabbed up but they work just fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmorgan4 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Is it possible to run 2 batterys that basically share the load and act as one large power reservoir? The only problem I could see is overworking the alternator by trying to charge 2 batterys at once, but if you had a high-output alt it wouldn't be a big deal. Not sure if there's any advantage to this setup, but it's something to consider if I'm looking into a winch possibly this summer. Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Luker Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Is it possible to run 2 batterys that basically share the load and act as one large power reservoir? It's really not worth it. Longer charge times and if one battery dies, then the voltage gets distributed and you get 6-7 volts out of the system = one dead truck. Edited February 21, 2006 by Filthy Luker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Is it possible to run 2 batterys that basically share the load and act as one large power reservoir? The only problem I could see is overworking the alternator by trying to charge 2 batterys at once, but if you had a high-output alt it wouldn't be a big deal. Not sure if there's any advantage to this setup, but it's something to consider if I'm looking into a winch possibly this summer. Tyler Yes, just connect them in parallel using at least 4 AWG wire. The only down side is that if one was to fail, it may draw down or damage the other. On the plus side, each battery is less likely to fail as the peak loads are shared and each is discharged less during heavy use. Starting batteries prefer not to be discharged deeply. If you discharge one to more than half of its capacity, it will shorten their life. They are not as durable as deep cycle. No worries about overworking the alternator. It will only put out what it is capable of putting out. In most cases, having dual batteries in parallel may actually decrease re-charge time. Huh? Batteries can only accept a charge so fast - as the chemical reaction of charging can only go so fast. This is very dependent on temperature. In the winter, it may be as low as 10 amps. When electrolyte is very warm, maybe up to 20 or 30 amps. (Side note - that's one reason why batteries are normally under the hood - the engine heat warms them up so they can re-charge faster). So if you have 2 in parallel and an alternator with enough capacity to run all active systems and charge both at their maximum rate, they will charge in less time as each was only drawn down 1/2 as much (they shared the load). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have a Painless dual battery system. I like it because it would allow me to drain one down, like if using stereo or radio transmitter or lights or whatever with the engine off.Then I have one fresh battery to start with later on. Also ,if I ever get a winch I could conceivably couple them up to give more winch time -if I ever should need it. I like the pics above but I could not put second battery by air box because I have cone air filter and air pump there. I custom fabbed a larger tray and bolted it to stock battery tray. Then I got two Hawker 1200s and mounted them side by side .The Hawkers are more powerful for their size and much smaller then Optimas. I mounted the controls for the dual battery system on the dash near the stock ammeter. Good luck --glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Thanks for the tip on the Painless system. I just looked it up and see they offer the 40102 system which is rated to 250 amps. I'm considering it for Frankenvan... Much more convenient than manually switching. Then just for giggles, I looked up the current draw from a Warn XD9000 winch. Gulp. At full power, it can draw 460 amps! That's some serious current, boys and girls! That's about the same as powering 100 (yes, 100!) 55 watt off road lights... This is at FULL output. The current draw depends on how hard it is working. The 460 amps is when it is about to stall out. During normal use, it will be less than that, but it is wise to design for worst case scenario to avoid inopportune failures. Or fires. So.... let's be careful out there. Research your winch's demands before leaping. As I think it through, the Painless 40102 should be OK with the XD9000 if it is wired in properly. The winch needs to be wired directly to the primary battery - which is where the alternator needs to be connected. The secondary battery is connected to the primary with the Painless solenoid in line. So, under a full pull, the winch will pull about 60 amps off the alternator with each battery (assuming the two batteries are well matched) contributing about 200 amps more. So the winch will be drawing only about 200 amps through the solenoid. So it should be OK. But for safety's sake, if you are really in a situation where you need to run near the limits, check the solenoid and wires frequently to avoid overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) And for those who already have the parts and smarts to design/build their own system, here's a lead on where to get the solenoid: http://aevcenter.com/cart/product.php?id=1442 I'm sure there are cheaper sources and will continue searching. It appears the solenoid they use is a White Rodgers 586 solenoid with 12V coil. Actual rating is 200 amps continuous, 600 amps inrush. Very common in golf carts. Specific part number: 586-105111 spec sheet: http://www.white-rodgers.com/pdfs/sell_sheets/R-4005web.pdf note: It draws about 1 amp to actuate. From what I've seen so far, $100 from Summit for the Painless kit is a fair deal. You get the solenoid, switch, wires, and most importantly of all for the novice, instructions and support! And I just went back to the Redarc link - their 200 amp system also appears to use the WR 586! Edited February 22, 2006 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I've got to agree: I am a novice -- and the instructions and support did make a big difference ! -glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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