Problem installing manual locking hubs - Advice?

[DanF.]

Ran into a clearance issue installing Mile Marker 435 hubs with '04 SE wheels. You can see in this picture that the 100mm opening has a small concentric lip (5-6mm?) running along the inside of the opening. This lip is what the small plastic center caps clip onto, and it shrinks the opening down enough so that the manual locking hub won't fit.

 

 

Here is how far the manual hub will protrude through the opening. I removed the manual hub cap and it didn't help with fitment.

 

 

And here it is from the back. You can see how the manual hub can't even clear the plane of the wheel, however there is plenty of room around the base of the hub to fit into the wheel opening.

 

 

If you look at this picture from an old, stickied, post you can see that the hub doesn't mount flush, or on the same plane, as the wheel. It would need to be sitting 3/4"-1" or so into the wheel opening.

 

 

So my options, I think, are to grind the lip out of the center cap opening, or to buy wheel spacers that compensate for the hub not being able to be set further inside the wheel opening. I don't have a Dremel, but I do have a cordless drill, and I imagine I can find a grinding bit that'll fit in the drill chuck.

 

If I grind the lip, it should be fairly cheap. I would have to do all four wheels so I could rotate them during oil changes or other maintenance.

 

If I buy spacers I won't have to alter the wheels, but it'll cost me $200 or so for the four spacers, which I still need to see if they exist.

 

What do you fellas say?

 

 

 

 

[mjotrainbrain]

I would say modify the wheels. I've heard of too many people having bad experiences with wheel spacers to recommend them.

Edited July 30, 2016 by mjotrainbrain

[DanF.]

My only worry would be that there'd be big openings on the rear wheels (no manual hubs to block off the openings) that would let in debris and hurt the rear bearings.

[DanF.]

Or would the rear drum cover up the bearings? I've never had a vehicle with drum brakes.

[DanF.]

I'm inclined to look into wheel spacers, as I can see a small lift in the future. I've been looking at various vendors and stuff on eBay. How would I know if I'd need to replace the stock wheel studs with longer studs?

 

Also, I've read in the various "wheel spacer" threads on this, and other Nissan websites, that Toyota spacers will work. Will any 6x5.5 6-lug spacer work? Are there certain brands or vendors that are better than others?

 

How do they affect steering/braking performance? I'm envisioning 1.5" spacers on all four corners. In the 10 minutes of internet searching, I've run across these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-WHEEL-SPACERS-6X5-5-1-5-INCH-THICK-12X1-5-STUDS-FITS-ALL-6-LUG-TOYOTA-/331638007761?hash=item4d372a67d1:g:LJoAAOSwd0BV3Tkt&vxp=mtr

 

How about them?

Edited July 30, 2016 by DanF.

[hawairish]

Bummer about fitment on those. That was my concern, just that little lip.

Does the back of the hub not recess further into the wheel because it hits that lip?

 

I tend to like the OE look, so not sure I could grind that lip if it meant not using the center caps. It seems like such a trivial detail, but I'm also the guy who bought an extra cap just to put it on spare tire.

 

As for your other questions...

 

The rear wheel bearings are well-protected, and that's not even factoring in the drum. I wouldn't worry about debris getting in.

 

Most 6x5.5 wheel spacers you'll find are universal in that they'll have a large (108mm) wheel bore to fit anything with that wheel pattern. If you find some that are specifically for Toyota, then it just means they have 12mmx1.5 wheel studs, and possibly use mag-style lug nuts. If you can find some labelled for Nissan, they'll have 12mmx1.25 wheel studs. Anything for GM may have some standard thread. The ones you linked have Toyota threads, and depending on your preference you'd need to replace at least one set of lug nuts to use them...so I'd pass on those. Also, though because we have 100mm wheel bores, you may want some hub-centric rings to center them up.

 

With the thicker spacers (say, >1") you shouldn't need new wheel studs.

 

You may notice a little more resistance at the steering wheel. And because the wheels push out that much more, there's a little more work involved to move things, so more stress on ball joints and TREs. But, it wouldn't feel any different than if you just change the wheels to an offset with the same amount. However, a wheel spacer does introduce more points of failure.

 

[DanF.]

Thanks for the reply and info.

 

I can only slide the hub in as far as that picture shows.

 

I'll spend more time looking for Nissan-specific spacers. I assume that these 1.5" spacers from Rugged Rocks should work: https://ruggedrocksoffroad.com/nissan-wheel-spacers-pair-by-rugged-rocks-1534-wide-6x5534-p-6724.html but I see lots of 4 pc. spacer sets for less than the RR 2pc. on eBay.

 

As always, I'm trying to do this on a less-than-advantageous budget, and wouldn't really be too bothered by missing the rear center caps. I bet with a bit of thinking I could come up with a way to remove the inner lip material and still retain the center caps with an expanding plug and magnets (shooting from the hip here....) Something like this:

 

 

How difficult would it be for me to grind that out? There isn't a ton of material, and I imagine a decent grinder attachment in a drill should be able to remove it just fine.

[hawairish]

I don't think it'd be too tough to grind out. When guys have been doing the Titan wheel swap (or similar), where they have to bore out the hole, they use a router with guide roller on the bit. A Dremel probably wouldn't be terrible. Just be mindful of heat in both scenarios, as it may damage the finish on outside of the center cap hole.

 

For the center cap, you could probably just put a thick o-ring around the recessed part and just wedge it in.

 

I know you got a good deal on the hubs, but couldn't you also return them (or resell them) and go with the other hub style and save all the trouble?

[DanF.]

I don't think it'd be too tough to grind out. When guys have been doing the Titan wheel swap (or similar), where they have to bore out the hole, they use a router with guide roller on the bit. A Dremel probably wouldn't be terrible. Just be mindful of heat in both scenarios, as it may damage the finish on outside of the center cap hole.

 

For the center cap, you could probably just put a thick o-ring around the recessed part and just wedge it in.

 

I know you got a good deal on the hubs, but couldn't you also return them (or resell them) and go with the other hub style and save all the trouble?

 

Yeah, I could return them, but I'm so close to getting these on. Plus the Rugged Ridge (I think that's what you have?) are three times what I paid.

 

I may make a run over to the local Homeless Despot and see if they have a carbide bit for my cordless drill. If my drill isn't powerful enough I'll be able to borrow something with more grunt from my father.

[hawairish]

Well, the "real" Rugged Ridge ones are way overpriced, but you just need to find the generic ones, which are usually under $90. The only difference between the two is a logo sticker. For example, these: http://www.ebay.com/itm291636320373.

 

 

[DanF.]

Well, the "real" Rugged Ridge ones are way overpriced, but you just need to find the generic ones, which are usually under $90. The only difference between the two is a logo sticker. For example, these: http://www.ebay.com/itm291636320373.

 

 

 

Page won't load. eBay says it doesn't exist.

[hawairish]

Oops, try this instead: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291636320373

[DanF.]

Are those like the ones that you have? Did you need to install longer studs? I'll buy these right now if they work with no extra parts or fabricobbling.

 

I can just return the MM 435s to the store for a refund.

[hawairish]

They look exactly like mine, just without the stickers (and I pulled the stickers off mine, lost 1 horsepower). Mine were on the truck when I got them, so I don't know if the studs were changed or reused.

[Slartibartfast]

Sorry to hear they didn't fit your rims properly. Same kit fit my WDs just fine, though I did have to trim the hubcaps. I used a router table. Flush cut bit with a big bearing added to the top so it would ride around the inside of the hubcap at the depth I wanted. It actually worked really well. I did consider doing it freehand but quickly realized that I had neither the patience nor the skill to get that right.

 

[DanF.]

Sorry to hear they didn't fit your rims properly. Same kit fit my WDs just fine, though I did have to trim the hubcaps. I used a router table. Flush cut bit with a big bearing added to the top so it would ride around the inside of the hubcap at the depth I wanted. It actually worked really well. I did consider doing it freehand but quickly realized that I had neither the patience nor the skill to get that right.

 

 

Thanks for chiming in. I was thinking about this method as well. Do you remember what router bit you used? I can't think of many routers that are made for alloy. My father is a carpenter by trade and has a bunch of routers. I may ask him to let me use his crappiest old router, but I don't know which sacrificial bit to purchase.

[DanF.]

Same kit fit my WDs just fine, though I did have to trim the hubcaps.

 

 

 

Which locking hubs kit were you referring to? The Mile Marker 435s or the Rugged Ridge clones?

[Slartibartfast]

Sorry, I meant the mile markers. And I only used the router for the plastic hub caps, not the rims--or are your center caps alloy?

 

The bit I used was a flush-cut, straight sides and a bearing on top the same diameter as the blades (this kinda thing). Meant for trimming up overhanging parts on wood projects. I found a larger bearing in my box-o-random-crap, slid that on over the stock bearing, and added washers top and bottom to hold it in place, and that spaced it out how I wanted it. It went through the plastic quite easily. I have not tried using a router on aluminum, though I'm sure someone out there has. I can see it working in theory... not sure I'd be first in line to try it though, especially not on a part I cared about.

[DanF.]

Sorry, I meant the mile markers. And I only used the router for the plastic hub caps, not the rims--or are your center caps alloy?

 

The bit I used was a flush-cut, straight sides and a bearing on top the same diameter as the blades (this kinda thing). Meant for trimming up overhanging parts on wood projects. I found a larger bearing in my box-o-random-crap, slid that on over the stock bearing, and added washers top and bottom to hold it in place, and that spaced it out how I wanted it. It went through the plastic quite easily. I have not tried using a router on aluminum, though I'm sure someone out there has. I can see it working in theory... not sure I'd be first in line to try it though, especially not on a part I cared about.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I had my window of free project-time, but I've run up against a wall of higher-priority stuff (selling my car, helping family member pick out new car, packing up current apartment for move, maintaining sanity with newborn, etc...) that's pushing back the non-essential goal of getting these manual hubs fitted to the wife's Pathfinder before I drive it 2000 miles back to Texas towing a U-Haul trailer.

 

I did make a little bit of headway by emailing customer support at Rugged Ridge and getting a reply from one of their product engineers with the dimensions of their RR manual hubs, so that I could see if they'd (and by "they" I mean a less expensive eBay clone, like the ones hawairish linked) fit with the '04 SE wheels with no additional modifications, e.g. no spacers behind the wheel, no grinding of the wheel opening, and no replacement hub studs, etc... just straight swaps.

 

I haven't had time to compare the specs provided with me against the wheel opening on my SE wheels and the MM 435 hubs I have sitting in front of me. Heck, I can't even find a ruler or tape measure.

 

Anyways, here's the Rugged Ridge Manual Locking Hub Set; 90-04 Nissan Frontier/Pathfinder/Xterras

SKU: 15001.61 specs per their customer support:

 

 

 

The flange is .43" thick and the hub comes with new M8 - 1.25 x 30 mm mounting bolts. The outside diameter of the flange is 3.85", overall height 2.93" and the diameter of the cap is 3.25".

[LittleFR]

I put 1" spacers on my wheels. I have the tri-spokes. I didn't want to cut the center cap and 1" was perfect to clear them.

 

I used Chevy lug-centric spacers I had on the shelf for several years. I cleaned the mounting surfaces. Greased the back of the acorns so they wouldn't 'bite' used blue loctite and torqued to 100lbs. Haven't looked back. Well actually I have checked the torque on them a couple times but they haven't moved.

 

I wouldn't be scared to grind the lip down either though. Or take it to a machine shop and let them do it quick and easy. Our local machinists are starving since the mines closed here and they are thrilled to work on kids bicycles for ten bucks a pop.

[DanF.]

I will grind it myself. I just don't know the right bit to use. I assume I can run it in a regular 3/8" chuck electric drill, and pretend it's a giant Dremel. I've seen cutter bits, such as Slartibartfast's suggestion, but there's also those coarse grinder bits.

 

 

[hawairish]

Google "Titan wheel bore" and check some of the videos. Personally, I'd stick with a router, but yes you can probably grind them out too.

[DanF.]

Google "Titan wheel bore" and check some of the videos. Personally, I'd stick with a router, but yes you can probably grind them out too.

 

Thanks for the link. Those guys were removing a substantial amount of material compared to what I need to do.

[hawairish]

Yes, nearly an inch, but similar process. Should yield a smooth quick cut, though. Quicker probably better to minimize heat buildup, which can damage the finish behind the cut.

[Bigblockbird]

new member/PF owner researching this hub issue.if flange on mm/warm hub is the same dia. as lip on rotor,wheel should seat down to rotor face unless interfere nce somewhere else inside wheel. going by the pics. ?