Injector problems? Start simple..

[madhakish]

Hi All,

Long (long long) time lurker but never had much to contribute as these are 20 year old vehicles there aren't a lot of undiscovered tips and tricks left..

Some background. It's been cold here lately (MN - so, real, proper cold..) and the truck isn't usually my dd until winter. Went to get her ready for first snow fun times a couple weeks back, fired her up, and instantly she's running like it's a cylinder short.. I figure it's -10F ambient, so whatever, let things warm up and get moving and she'll sort herself out (always does).. Not this time. Needed to do the brake master cylinder anyways and don't have a good system for bleeding (did i mention it's cold?) so off to the mechanic she goes.

Few hours later, mechanic gives me a ring and says brakes are great, but you're throwing code 51.. Fack. Injectors. Double fack. I can either spend hours in the frigid cold doing the delicate work of disassembling my air/fuel to get at the injectors or I can have the mechanic do it to the tune of $700.. Ugh. I call him back and let him know I'll take it home and start diagnosing myself and if I just can't take it i'll bite the bullet and go back.

Fast forward to yesterday, finally got some time to work on it, but the cold is forcing a methodology upon me even though we are above zero again.. Start simple. Ohm meter. I did my required NPORA reading, Hanes manual, various youtube vids, etc.. Read up on all the people replacing passenger side injectors in 10 min and figure I've got a 50/50 shot that it's on the "easy" side. Pop the hood, pull the power connector for injector 1(?), closest to the fan, passenger side, touch the pins, and my ohm meter freaks out. It's jumping all over the place, 0, 200, 0, 100, 5, 35, 0.. Half the time I can't even get it to register unless I move the points around on the contact. And then I had an "AH HA!" moment.. The pins are 20 years old. They've *never* to my knowledge been unplugged. This beast has 230K on her, through every type of climate and environment this continent has to offer. I bet they have a coat of oxidation on them, which would explain why I can't get a consistent reading on the ohm meter without scraping the tips of the probes against the pins. Grabbed a Q-tip, soaked it in b10, wiped them down really good, and boom - nice steady mid-20's ohm reading. Move to cyl 3, and cyl 5, same same.. I put some dielectric grease inside the connector points of the wire harness and reassemble. Proceed through 3, and 5, cleaning the exact same way, and adding dialectric grease to the connectors.

Fire it up and it idles smooth as silk. In fact, I think this might be the best this engine has *ever* run. It sounds great, no misfires, strong consistent purr..

With my new found time in the day, I decided to finally install the new idler arm and calmini brace. Boy, Calmini, you guys make some jacked up parts. Did you even try to put one in? I mean really - there is an obvious 1/4" of steel preventing it from lining up to the bolt holes properly, and the bottom of the bracket isn't square to the sides! I had to grind a 1/4" of steel off that POS.. Not going with anything calmini, ever again. Geez.

 

TL;DR - Injector connectors were oxidized, cleaned and greased them, truck runs better than it has in 5 years. Also, Calmini can suck it.

[adamzan]

Nice post. I had a code 51 once and a while and never figured it out, went away on its own. Maybe I should look into this, when it is warmer of course.

 

And yes, calmini sucks, there are a couple other members here that had the same experience as you. I bought my idler brace from 4x4parts.com, cheaper, and fit perfect.

[MY1PATH]

20 ohm's seems really high, but then again you said it was really cold. Did you Ohm the injectors after the truck had warmed up? You should get 10~14 after they have run for a few minutes.

Crapmini has a reputation for $#!ty work and poor customer service, they pretty much wash their hands of you as soon as they pay the postage on your product.

There is a possibility that your IA is bent too. Walk into a parts store and ask too look at a new one, you shouldn't have to buy it just to lay a brace on it and see if its close...

Edited December 22, 2013 by MY1PATH

[madhakish]

20 ohm's seems really high, but then again you said it was really cold. Did you Ohm the injectors after the truck had warmed up? You should get 10~14 after they have run for a few minutes.

 

Crapmini has a reputation for $#!ty work and poor customer service, they pretty much wash their hands of you as soon as they pay the postage on your product.

There is a possibility that your IA is bent too. Walk into a parts store and ask too look at a new one, you shouldn't have to buy it just to lay a brace on it and see if its close...

 

Someone at some point had replaced the stock ia with a cheapo knock off, i picked up a new proper unit at napa for about $50. I had read about one other forum members experience only after the calmini unit arrived so I to some degree expected it but I was struck by just how off it actually was. That said, with a shave, it is installed, and appears to be completely bombproof so I'll go with it.

 

I haven't measured the resistance since I did it cold that day, once it started and fired up it was running so well i figured it was good, and I had seen a pretty steady reading, and a consistent level across the 3. The idle smoothness struck me at once, it was a surprising change from what the pre-code idle was like, and obviously a massive improvement from one injector simply not operating at all. At some point I'll need to take apart the intake and fuel rail anyways and I'll likely do injectors then.. Hoping this quick fix lasts until the weather warms up at least.

 

From what I understand the coils on these (same as the maxima) go after some time and all at around the same lifespan, so once one dies (really dies, not just bad connector) they're likely all going to start going out.. At 230k, I don't mind putting $300 and a day of labor into a brand new set of critical components like these, esp. after such a good, relatively service free 5 years of life since I bought her. I'd just rather it not be 0 degrees when doing so.

[FeelthePathos95]

Greetings from another Minnesotan.

Mine's a '95 and a godsend in the deep cold.

Glad to see you got yours sorted out with the $700 hole in your pocket.

[MY1PATH]

If you are going to replace them all you can try using the vg33E injectors (R50, wd22, quest, villager) they are the same flow rate and fit the same but the internal windings are insulated against ethanol exposure and the newer style connectors are less prone to corrosion.

[Precise1]

With my new found time in the day, I decided to finally install the new idler arm and calmini brace. Boy, Calmini, you guys make some jacked up parts. Did you even try to put one in? I mean really - there is an obvious 1/4" of steel preventing it from lining up to the bolt holes properly, and the bottom of the bracket isn't square to the sides! I had to grind a 1/4" of steel off that POS.. Not going with anything calmini, ever again. Geez.

Yep, amazing it even goes out the door like that...

 

 

I had read about one other forum members experience only after the calmini unit arrived so I to some degree expected it but I was struck by just how off it actually was. That said, with a shave, it is installed, and appears to be completely bombproof so I'll go with it.

 

From what I understand the coils on these (same as the maxima) go after some time and all at around the same lifespan, so once one dies (really dies, not just bad connector) they're likely all going to start going out.. At 230k, I don't mind putting $300 and a day of labor into a brand new set of critical components like these, esp. after such a good, relatively service free 5 years of life since I bought her. I'd just rather it not be 0 degrees when doing so.

Something tells me you mean me (see my signature). I'm sorry you had the same experience, it really is pathetic...

 

Good job figuring that out though, especially in that weather, but then $700 is a bit of motivation, eh? I too have learned to check connections before replacing parts.

 

I haven't heard of a lot of coil failures and probably wouldn't premptively replace. If it really concerns you about getting stuck, then buy a junkyard emergency replacement to carry...

 

B

[madhakish]

Yep, amazing it even goes out the door like that...

 

Something tells me you mean me (see my signature). I'm sorry you had the same experience, it really is pathetic...

 

Good job figuring that out though, especially in that weather, but then $700 is a bit of motivation, eh? I too have learned to check connections before replacing parts.

 

I haven't heard of a lot of coil failures and probably wouldn't premptively replace. If it really concerns you about getting stuck, then buy a junkyard emergency replacement to carry...

 

B

 

Indeed it was! Yeah, i'll be avoid them from now on. Lesson learned. I had honestly forgotten about the fitment issues until I pulled it off the shelf after the other idler arm finally was no longer tolerable.. Was looking at going all in on the calmini steering/suspension upgrades but I'm now i'm leaning towards OME or a rancho setup.. Not interested in lift so much as better components.

 

Speaking of cold, fix one problem, develop another. Out of nowhere, i'm now only getting a "click" out of the starter/solenoid. Had it all replaced about a year ago so it's all fairly new. No crank, just a click. Happened the other day and I hit the connections with some b10 to clean out the crap, and a little wd40 and then hit it with a hammer and cleaned the garage. One of those things worked and it started 40 minutes later. This AM it's -3 again and she won't start - click. I figure this time I'll try everything in order, so I hit it with b10 again and gave it some time and voila.. Starts right up.

 

So I'm gathering it's a poor connection at the solenoid. More fun on a cold day. Will keep some b10 in the back just in case.

[Kafike]

The click and no start seems to be pretty common on the Pathys. I installed a relay in the starting circuit a few years ago and never had an issue again. Used to click and not start several times before I could get it to fire up. Mr. Reverse has a schematic around here somewhere (or was it on 4x4parts forum?). It's been a while so don't really remember but it was really easy and cleared that issue up.