CV Axle Shudder

[drewp29]

So I bought some Raxles to replace my stock CVs which were clicking after the AC lift (170k miles on what appear to be the stock CVs, so I can't blame them for complaining after the AC lift put them at a pretty extreme angle).

 

Overall, changing them wasn't that big a deal, in fact if I were only doing the CVs it would probably be about 1 hour per side. I changed the ball joints and sway bar links in the process, so it took a little bit longer.

 

After I finished I took it for a test drive with the manual hubs locked, and I do not have the clicking anymore. I do however, have a pretty wicked shudder when the RPMs are above 3k. It feels like it is coming from the passenger side. I confirmed it is probably one of the CVs by unlocking the hubs and driving it hard. There is no shudder with the hubs unlocked and it drives great.

 

So, my question is: If I lock one hub and drive around, will the opposite axle still spin? Or since it isn't coupled to the transfer case will it just sit there while the locked hub turns the locked axle?

 

I want to try to isolate which side to be certain before going about figuring out if the axle is bad or just needs to be pulled and reinstalled.

 

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

 

[ferrariowner123]

I would return the axles you bought and rebuild the Stock ones (if they were, in fact the stock ones) OEM are better built and as long as you dont mess up the balance during the rebuild, you shouldn't have this shudder issue.

 

Plus rebuilding them with Rockford thermoplastic CV Boots, is a much stronger option over the cheap rubber that you'll get from alot of aftermarket companies, its a thicker and stronger material.

 

I was hesitant at first to rebuild my CV's but its really easy. Just a greasy mess. So be ready.

 

I can provide the Rockford link along with a build thread from the man who discovered Rockford's work on our pathy's if you would like?

 

Plus, having a chilton manual as helps alot as well, because it has torque values on top of the fairly clear instructions, if you have some mechanical inclination. the book is your friend.

 

-Kyle

[projekz]

Link please. I might look into replacing my cv boots as well. Thank in advance.

[drewp29]

I did consider the rebuild option, but the Raxles are a solid product, every bit as good as the OEM, if not better.

 

What they do is take the OEM axle and add entirely new CV joints to it. Most reman axles have reground/rebuilt joints, which Raxles DOES NOT do.

 

At 190 an axle, plus shipping, they aren't the cheapest option, but they are WAY cheaper than OEM at $483 an axle.

 

Take a look at their website: www.raxles.com

 

They have a pretty low failure rate, but let's face it, nobody is perfect - I figure I probably got a bad joint or unbalanced shaft.

 

How much did it cost to rebuild your CVs?

[ferrariowner123]

DANG!!! you spent a lot dude,

 

after tools and parts it was like $100 to rebuild them. (little bit more than new or refurbs from the crap auto stores)

 

Link to boots

 

http://www.rockfordcv.com/Nissan_bootkits.htm

 

Link to walk through

 

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/26677-rockford-thermoplastic-cv-boot/?do=findComment&comment=492986

 

Clamp tool Fleury's recommended to me and used.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KD-TOOLS-CV-JOINT-BOOT-CLAMP-PLIERS-new-perma-quick-USA-/140923347213?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20cfafa10d

 

Raxles sound legit, but if you still have your old OEM's, i would combine them with these boots for a really KILLER bomb proof CV setup.

 

-Kyle

Edited March 6, 2013 by ferrariowner123

[drewp29]

after tools and parts it was like $100 to rebuild them. (little bit more than new or refurbs from the crap auto stores)

 

Is that $100 apiece?

[ferrariowner123]

$100 for all 4 boots and the tool, roughly

 

Prices are in the link i provided.

[drewp29]

I am fairly certain the old ones are the OEM axles, but not totally sure. There are no indicating marks on them that would seem to suggest otherwise. How can you tell if they are OEM?

[ferrariowner123]

I am fairly certain the old ones are the OEM axles, but not totally sure. There are no indicating marks on them that would seem to suggest otherwise. How can you tell if they are OEM?

 

Sorry buddy, don't have a clue.

[mel.d]

DANG!!! you spent a lot dude,

 

after tools and parts it was like $100 to rebuild them. (little bit more than new or refurbs from the crap auto stores)

 

Link to boots

 

http://www.rockfordcv.com/Nissan_bootkits.htm

 

Link to walk through

 

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/26677-rockford-thermoplastic-cv-boot/?do=findComment&comment=492986

 

Clamp tool Fleury's recommended to me and used.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KD-TOOLS-CV-JOINT-BOOT-CLAMP-PLIERS-new-perma-quick-USA-/140923347213?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20cfafa10d

 

Raxles sound legit, but if you still have your old OEM's, i would combine them with these boots for a really KILLER bomb proof CV setup.

 

-Kyle

You're not really rebuilding the axles, you are only replacing the boots. This is more of a preventive maintenance before the boot actually rips and loses all grease. It will not resolve the clicking of the axles that the OP is experiencing. In his case, the bearings in the CV cages are the cause of the clicking because of wear.

[ferrariowner123]

He's not experiencing clicking.

 

clicking and shuddering are different.

 

From the sounds of it, its an imbalance in the axle.

[mel.d]

After I finished I took it for a test drive with the manual hubs locked, and I do not have the clicking anymore. I do however, have a pretty wicked shudder when the RPMs are above 3k. It feels like it is coming from the passenger side. I confirmed it is probably one of the CVs by unlocking the hubs and driving it hard. There is no shudder with the hubs unlocked and it drives great.

 

So, my question is: If I lock one hub and drive around, will the opposite axle still spin? Or since it isn't coupled to the transfer case will it just sit there while the locked hub turns the locked axle?

The shudder is likely due to the axle not being balanced correctly from the factory. You best option is to replace it with another axle.

 

If one hub is locked the axle on the unlocked side will likely spin in the opposite direction since the front diff is open. It would be similar to lifting up the rear end and spinning one tire in one direction and the other side spinning in the opposite direction (assuming it doesn't have LSD).

[mel.d]

He's not experiencing clicking.

 

clicking and shuddering are different.

 

From the sounds of it, its an imbalance in the axle.

 

 

Go back and read the first sentence. The OP states he bought new axles to replace the original ones that were clicking. After replacing them, he is now experiencing a shudder.

[ferrariowner123]

Oh your talking about the old axles, my bad, i'm referring to the new ones shuddering.

 

My bad, my brain is all over the place right now.

[drewp29]

Go back and read the first sentence. The OP states he bought new axles to replace the original ones that were clicking. After replacing them, he is now experiencing a shudder.

 

Exactly. When he first mentioned a rebuild I figured he was talking about buying the CV joint parts, tearing the joint apart, and rebuilding the joints with new bearings and such. I suppose if you could figure out which joint on which side is problematic you could just replace the joint, but you'd probably end up replacing all of them in the end anyway.

 

Oh your talking about the old axles, my bad, i'm referring to the new ones shuddering.

 

My bad, my brain is all over the place right now.

 

 

No worries man!

Edited March 7, 2013 by drewp29

[ascdesigns]

Re: running one hub unlocked:

 

Just a thought on perhaps what killed my front diff on my "98 Pathy a couple years ago. One of my Warn hubs came stuck open while the other was locked. Something siezed in the diff to the point when I was able to lock both sides bad noises and vibrations, and literally elliptical oscillations of my diff happened. I don't know if the bearings inside the front open diff are meant to spin opposite for long periods of time.

 

Again, just a thought to consider. Front diff experts, please check my math on this one - I am speculating a bit.

 

- Al

[drewp29]

Al - Thanks for the heads up. I don't plan on running it locked/unlocked for more than probably a block or two just to get the feel for which side actually has the problem.

 

BUT - yes, front diff experts please chime in!

[XPLORx4]

I would not advise allowing one side of the differential to freewheel while the other is locked. The reason is that the differential gears will always be spinning and heating up the diff oil. Those gears weren't meant to spin at those speeds for prolonged periods of time.

[drewp29]

Hey XPLORx4 - I agree, do you think it would be alright to just do this as a test though? I am not gonna run it that way for more than a couple blocks just to see if the shudder is driver's or passenger's side.

 

Edit: I'm not planning on running it in 4wd, just in 2wd since the shudder only happens with the hubs locked.

Edited March 8, 2013 by drewp29

[XPLORx4]

For just a couple blocks it shouldn't be a problem. But I think your test may not give you the results you're expecting.

 

You see, if you lock both hubs, both front axles rotate together and the front driveshaft rotates, too. Only the transfer case is disconnected from the driveshaft.

 

If both hubs are unlocked, nothing rotates while the transfer case is in 2WD.

 

If one hub is locked, and the opposite unlocked, one CV rotates forward, but the other CV rotates backward at the same speed. Some torque might transfer through the side gears to the ring gear and cause the driveshaft to spin slowly.

 

So, since both CV axles would be rotating (just in opposite directions) you may still feel the vibrations.

 

I believe you said that you've already tried driving in 2WD with the hubs locked and have the vibrations. Can you try driving in 4WD with the hubs unlocked to see what happens?

Edited March 9, 2013 by XPLORx4

[mel.d]

I agree with XPLORx4. Having one side locked will still rotate the opposite axle. Therefore, you will not be able to isolate which of the two is the root cause of the shudder. You may have to remove one side and put back the old axle to determine which is the cause.

 

On a side note, at any point during the installation of the new axle, did you pull the axle outwards? The inner joint that mates to the diff is designed to slide in and out. If you pull on it too much or let it hang at an extreme angle, any one of the three bearings in the inner joint can slide off. Just one of those bearings can throw the balance off.

[drewp29]

Hmmm, I'll try to drive in 4wd with the hubs unlocked and see what happens.

 

I re-installed the axle and the shudder is still there, so I am pretty certain the axle is bad.

 

During the first installation I thought I was very careful with the axle and did not pull on the joints. I tried to get it in there with as little movement of the joints as possible.

 

I measured my CV angles and I'm sitting right about at 20 degrees with the tire on the ground and 25-26 degrees with the tire in the air, so I don't think it is an extreme angle issue. Besides, the driver's side is fine and the angles match the passenger's side.

 

If a bearing in the joint were to slide off would that also cause binding issues? The rotation is smooth throughout corners even at full lock pulling a u-turn.

 

The vibration is most prominent in 2nd gear at about 3000-3200 rpms. It is there in first and third, but much less prominent. My thoughts are that at the particular speed the wheel is turning at in 2nd gear and 3k rpm is where the imbalance is hitting it's resonance frequency which why it shudders.

 

I'll let you know what it does in 4wd with the hubs unlocked.

[adamzan]

If you gun it while in 2nd does the shudder get a whole lot worse? Maybe you have bad front driveshaft u-joints. I had this happen to me just so happened to notice it after I changed the cv axles.

[drewp29]

The issue doesn't seem to be associated with the amount of throttle, but I guess that is something to consider.

 

What were the symptoms when your u-joint was bad?

 

When the shudder happens it feels like hitting the ruts on the side of the highway, and it stops as soon as it gets above about 3200 rpm.

Edited March 10, 2013 by drewp29

[adamzan]

Basically the front end shuddered with the 4wd on (I have the stock auto hubs) and when you gunned it, it really shuddered! Enough that you could visibly see the steering wheel hop up and down.