Hello

[WenzelJ]

Hey there, I'm from Canada, B.C. I've come here for useful information etc, etc. Nice to meet you all.

 

[Precise1]

Welcome to NPORA.

 

There's a lot of stuff, as you can imagine so look around and search and such. Let us know if you get stuck or have any questions. Meanwhile, enjoy the pathy!

 

B

[WenzelJ]

Quick question for yourself. I've seen a lot of different ways to provide a suspension lift for WD21, what's the quickest and cheapest route to getting around a 3" lift?

[nunya]

Suspension: re-index if needed & crank your torsion bars, some upper control arms that will correct ball joint angle + alignment and some junkyard sourced coils for the rear (a couple options this route, JGC [Jeep Grand Cherokee] front v8 coils are most common/known). You'll need longer rear shocks once completed

 

Or you could get a 3" bodylift (or both! 3+3!)

There's plenty of threads around to help explain a little more in depth than my quick shotgun answer.

 

And welcome to NPORA

[WenzelJ]

Suspension: re-index if needed & crank your torsion bars, some upper control arms that will correct ball joint angle + alignment and some junkyard sourced coils for the rear (a couple options this route, JGC [Jeep Grand Cherokee] front v8 coils are most common/known). You'll need longer rear shocks once completed

 

Or you could get a 3" bodylift (or both! 3+3!)

There's plenty of threads around to help explain a little more in depth than my quick shotgun answer.

 

And welcome to NPORA

Thanks a lot thats pretty helpful actually. I'll stay away from bodylifts, I find them pretty useless IMO.

 

 

A lot of people are using backcountry control arms. These would be fine for me I would assume? adjust the torsion bars and source some rear spings from a Grand Cherokee?

 

 

Haha, thanks a bunch.

Edited February 6, 2013 by WenzelJ

[Precise1]

Bodylifts, IMHO, give you some room to work on things. Oh, and run bigger tires if you are like that...

 

B

[teixeira]

[WenzelJ]

Thanks for the welcomes

[Slartibartfast]

Now that's an intro pic.

[Tungsten]

I don't recommend running a body lift because it will increase your center of gravity and make it easier for the truck to fall off the frame in case of an accident. You can crank the factory torsion bar suspension in the front up to the maximum of the UCA being about 1/2" away from the lower bump stop. Look into bagging the rear springs to get a matching lift at the rear.

[Trogdor636]

Look into bagging the rear springs to get a matching lift at the rear.

Are you talking about the bags that go inside the springs? My friend has the Airlift ones, he is not a big fan. I think somebody else on this list had issues with them too. I think they might good for towing, but I wouldn't wheel with them. If its a different type, post a link I'd be interested to see which ones.

[nunya]

You will get a higher center of gravity from any lift really, and tires is how you gain clearance from your lowest point (think about into matte how much suspension and/or body lift you add the axle is still the same distance from the ground until you up your tire height). I do fail to see where the body is going to fall off the frame due to a (proper) body lift though, and I have seen a few trucks & SUVs in my time involved in different style street accidents with them installed and their bodies were still just as rigid to their frames as they would have been without said lift. (I have also seen some shaky homemade stuff fail pretty badly also though so a bad non-thought out one don't rule out bad thoughts of bodylifts as well. All in how it's looked at).

 

WenzelJ, do you have a planned tire size your looking to run? Is your truck going to be a multi purpose rig or primarily one thing with just some comforts "just incase" for others? We might be able to help a little more with some more info towards what the primary goal is too

oh, and I DO see (at least) white fenders and chrome in that pic, I think I like this guy already!

[WenzelJ]

WenzelJ, do you have a planned tire size your looking to run? Is your truck going to be a multi purpose rig or primarily one thing with just some comforts "just incase" for others? We might be able to help a little more with some more info towards what the primary goal is too

oh, and I DO see (at least) white fenders and chrome in that pic, I think I like this guy already!

 

 

I'd love to be able to fit some 35's under there, and I don't mind about hacking and sawing away at the fenders, though just replacing the front two that would probably bring a tear to my eyes. And I'm primarily using it as a bush vehicle but it's also my DD so. And eventually I'd like to do a solid axel swap.

[92Path_68CJ]

Welcome from sunny socal.

[Precise1]

I don't recommend running a body lift because it will increase your center of gravity and make it easier for the truck to fall off the frame in case of an accident. You can crank the factory torsion bar suspension in the front up to the maximum of the UCA being about 1/2" away from the lower bump stop. Look into bagging the rear springs to get a matching lift at the rear.

A body lift will affect the CG less than a suspension lift because all you are lifting is the body, not the motor, tranny, frame, etc. A suspension lift raises everything. The two achieve mostly different things for different costs, so application is what decides.

 

B

[Trogdor636]

-

 

A lot of people are using backcountry control arms.

 

Oh, I think you mean Rough Country. I've never heard of Backcountry suspension stuff.

[Tungsten]

This is all true. Just putting bigger tires will increase the COG. Bigger tires won't have a sketchy effect on the body though. If I was going to do a body lift, it would only be to clear larger tires. From what I know you can stuff up to 33x10.5 without running a body lift. There is no need for an extra increase in COG from the body lift either. The whole issue is the body lift mounts are fragile in a rollover or in a serious collision. You can literally tear the body off the frame. There are things you can do to sort of reinforce the body lift but they might need some fab work. For the sake of safety I do not recommend doing them if they are not necessary for the application. They do look cool but there is that safety trade-off.

 

The air bags that go inside the springs are actually pretty good. I know some people that actually wheel with them. They allow you to tune the spring rate and height to what you want. They also can help off-road by helping you lean into a hill and things like that. Lift coils are fine but their drawback is that they will throw off the alignment at the rear axle. A panhard rod drop bracket is necessary for a 3" lift coil. I remember GrandpaX was making those so you can contact him.

 

The factory UCAs at the front will crank up really high. You may only need aftermarket ones if you don't have enough shims for alignment. The aftermarket ones are basically just longer. The biggest issue with cranking the front suspension is the CV shafts going out of angle.

 

One more thing: Don't forget the idler arm brace. This has been covered multiple times around here.

 

Forgot to mention that all this was from my personal research. I was looking into a body + suspension lift myself but just decided that I did not need it based on what I do and where I live. Lifts add complexity and are harder on parts. Just think about if you really need it first.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tungsten

[Trogdor636]

I dont think a panhard drop is necessary. Lots of people roaming around here that dont have one. Good item to have yes, but it sounds like you are saying you cant lift it without one.

 

Its probably more common that people dont have one, than those that do.

[Tungsten]

You can lift without it but the rear axle will get shifted over to one side, which is not going to be fun in alignment. There is also going to be more sideways movement between the axle and body. Either the drop bracket or a longer panhard rod should be a good solution but it is better to keep the panhard rod as parallel to the axle as possible so the drop bracket is a nicer solution.

 

Something like this would be cool: http://www.sonoransteel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18

 

Too bad it's for a 4runner but I imagine it should not be hard to make your own.

 

You're right it's not absolutely necessary but I would run it for alignment purposes.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tungsten

[Tungsten]

Oh yeah here's a new bit of information right from that link too:

 

FYI: The reason we do not use/manufacture the drop bracket any more, we invented it for the 3rd Gen in 2001, is that it simply does not work. It is un-adjustable so most installers see no benefit as they have a different amount of lift than the fixed weld on bracket compensates for, basically is does not drop enough, the discontinued drop bracket also increases the roll center making the truck more tippy, the correct way to do this would be to raise the axle side, not lower the frame side and if it is welded on crooked, it negates itself.

 

As you can see those guys are even saying that you should not drop the frame side but raise the axle side.

Therefore the adjustable length panhard would be an easier method.

Of course you can always cut the rod in half and weld some extra tubing over. Ghetto but should work too.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Tungsten

[Tungsten]

Disregard that above post. They got it wrong. I asked around and here is what I found out: It's actually better to run the drop bracket on the frame side for street use because a drop bracket lowers the roll center. A riser on the axle side will increase the roll center and make the truck more flexy but tipsy. So if you run a drop bracket you will actually improve handling when the truck is lifted too.