rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) O.K. here I go, my first entry. I've been kicking around the idea of strut inserts on my Mcphersons. I put the AC coils on 2 years ago and was just not happy at all. First of all, I read all the problems with them here at NPORA and what a B%#@H putting together and installing. The drive shaft angle and the top out issue was bugging me so bad that I machined some strut rod extentions #pics and /or drawings coming# that I put on the end of the rod in order to lengthen the rod. This was to remedy the top out issues. I now have decided to do a SFD to correct the drive shaft angle and to level out the vehicle due to the AC springs being too tall in the rear and creating excessive rake. The strut rod extensions were a great idea theoretically but one of them broke just recently. I didn't consider torsional stress on the attachment area and thought "incorrectly" that the rod would only receive vertical pressure. It snapped at the OE portion of the rod right at the top leaving the threaded portion in the extension. So back to the drawing board. I searched high and low for ideas and came across Koni Heavy Track strut inserts part # 86 2582. Basically, you cut the top off your strut housing, pull the guts out and insert the Koni shock and attach at the bottom. http://www.koni-na.c...f/boltstrut.pdf So, I'm going to put a 2" spacer in the bottom of the strut housing in order to lengthen the strut and prevent top out and/or centering the rod in the shock as well as aid in spring installation. The Koni's are rebound adjustable and definetly a superior part compared to the KYB's and anything else. Koni wants you to measure the top of the strut and cut it down according to a subtraction method in order to facilitate proper insertion depth. Therefore, leaving my housing long and putting a spacer at the bottom with a longer bolt should work out for me. I don't think that an acceptable portion of the of the insert sticking out above the strut housing will cause a failure. Photos as soon as I figure out how to download them. Edited November 1, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Be careful with the spacers on the bottom too. The inserts take all the side loadings on your front suspension, and while the spacers at the bottom are a better idea that at the top, they still take load. If possible, get someone to weld your spacers in place, or make a sleeve that is snug in the housing that the insert fits tightly into as well, so it takes all the side thrust. Basically you don't want the bolt to have any bending force applied to it, shear and tension load only. edit: duh, thinking about it....if you make the spacers to fit the id. of the strut it'll be fine..... Edited October 27, 2012 by andrewt6447 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Thanx for the info, can help me with downloading some pics? The insert is completely surrounded by the stock strut housing and will only protrude or stick up and out 1 or 2" Edited October 27, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Thanx for the info, can help me with downloading some pics? I use photobucket ( http://www.photobucket.com ) and link them from there... Edited October 27, 2012 by andrewt6447 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewt6447 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 The insert is completely surrounded by the stock strut housing and will only protrude or stick up and out 1 or 2" The bit sicking out at the top will be fine, but the insert usually isn't a tight fit into the housing, they usually supply a bushing that fits in the top to take up the space, then the bottom slots tightly into the bottom of the housing so it can't move either. Looking at the pics I found it has a little extension that spigots in... If it's a tight fit all the way down, then ignore everything I said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Strut housing with stock internal pulledThe broken threaded end of the stock strut rod because of the extension I put on.My SFD The top knuckle bolt hole drilled for more camber adj.My spacers that will be going in the bottom of the strut housing, spacing the new insert uo 2" Edited October 31, 2012 by rocky2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Exactly Andy The insert OD is a snug fit in the housing ID and usually has to be pulled down into the housing by tightening the bottom bolt or tapping it down. There are bumps or protusions on the outside of the insert that create an interference fit in the housing. If by spacing the insert up the housing dosen't engage the bumps on the insert I might weld an extension on the tube of the housing. But i don't see a problem as of yet because I cut the tube as long as possible and Koni instructs to shorten it. I will post more pics of the finished unit. Thanx for the help with the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hopefully the pics help explain my project. I'm going to use stainless 2x2 that are 1/4" thick for the SFD blocks. I slotted the top bolt hole on the strut housing to hopefully get more camber adjustment. The spacers are the same OD of the Koni insert bottom bolt attachment. I'm waiting on the Koni's and will get after it soon. Any suggestions or remarks appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) http://legacygt.com/.../...;&&&&&&&&&; http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-suspension/144248-koni-insert-installation.html Maybe this link will help explain what I'm up against. Edited October 27, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Just did a brake and clutch slave bleed by myself, what a work out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Strut insert in the housing with the collar installed. The other insert by the side for reference.Close up of the strut The bottom spacer and the collar again Edited October 31, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Wow, no comments. I really thought I was on to something here. Increasing the stroke, ie. no top out issues and a for superior adjustable strut cartridge. Cool machining of the collar and skinning the cat in a totally innovative way and no atta boys? Well, I'll post more when it all goes together and is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Wow, no comments. I really thought I was on to something here. Increasing the stroke, ie. no top out issues and a for superior adjustable strut cartridge. Cool machining of the collar and skinning the cat in a totally innovative way and no atta boys? Well, I'll post more when it all goes together and is installed. Its early in the day for the forum, wait till this evening, this thread will definitely have some more interest. I have been reading this, had to about 3 different times, trying to understand exactly what your doing. Let me check my understanding. Instead of fitting struct spacers, you are just replacing the sturt/shock. with a longer koni shock. to give a better ride? so that the spring isn't ALWAYS topped out? Is that correct? -Kyle EDIT: how much does this cost and would you be willing to either offer this service or give a VERY detailed how to? This looks like a great Fix to the AC lift, to anyone who does like the ride of the AC lift, i have yet to do the lift on my pathfinder, and hearing the ride issues and CV angle, this make me VERY interested to your idea. Edited October 31, 2012 by ferrariowner123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I too am a little confused on this project. I really have nothing to add other than I want to see how this pans out. As for the ride quality of the AC lift .. I like the way it feels more like a truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanx for the interest Let me try to explain the method of my madness. I was concerned about the top out of the strut rod in the strut assembly, the postive wheel camber and the cv angles. I am now convinced that in order to remedy the cv angle and the camber issue I will have to do a SFD. But the top out issue is due to the spring length. Don't get me wrong, I like the ride of a stiff vehicle. Once I put the KYB's and the AC coils together I knew something was up when I had to use extreme pressure to get the top strut bearing assembly on and the whole unit in the truck. My first attempt of lengthening the strut rod itself was a failure. That was my machined strut rod extension that basically screws on the end of the rod with threads above to attach the top bearing assembly. So I decided to space the strut itself at the bottom by doing a modified strut insert. I have Skunk2 pro S coilovers on another car and love them. They are idepenently spring preload adjustable as well as ride height, rebound and compression. Nobody makes that kind of system for our Pathfinders and all though possible, it would involve too much fab. So, I went hunting for a high performance fix to the stock strut length on a Pathfinder. As you all know, not alot options out there. So, I noticed that alot of guys, in the street scene, were modifying their struts with Koni inserts, checked Koni's web site and there they were for our Pathfinders. Koni Heavy Track part # 86 2582 . So, I bought some and decided to space the insert at the bottom of the stock housing and leave the rod alone. The interference fit of the inserts was not exactly what I liked due to the spacer putting the Koni 2" higher. The Koni's have little dimples on the upper portion of the insert shaft that should go down into the housing. Most guys cut the stock housing down further in order to lower the vehicle and not bottom out the shock. Now do you get where I'm going? So I machined what is basically a collar that goes over the stock strut housing and secures the Koni insert. If I did not space the insert, I would not have to make or use the collar but would be back to the top out issue. Got to work now and will be back in a few minutes Rocky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Spring preload should be attained by loading and /or compressing the coil or getting stiffer springs not by getting longer ones. Hence the threaded and adjustable spring perch on performance struts. Lift on an IFS should be by means of blocking and/or body lift ie. SFD. The idea of the AC springs as a lift mechanism is not really kosher in my opinion. Changes to the spring height causes severe CV angles and positive camber issues. For good handling on or offroad, negative camber is optimal. Just look at Trophy Trucks and sports cars. That being said, I slotted the top knuckle bolt hole like my Skunk2 set-up for camber adj. and will be doing a 2" SFD drop to counter the sprung front end. The Koni's are really cool and quality stuff. If you want to go down this road let me know and I will help you out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hey ferrariowner123 Go with the Kfabs SFD kit first unless your confident enough to make your own and get it over with, you will kick youself for not just doing it and then think about shock modifications. If you need to do the struts, the Koni insert deal is high quality and easily done and the spacer thing is not necessary unless you do the AC coils. Just follow the directions on the Koni website and drill the bottom and cut the top of the tube and your done. Looking back on it I would go the SFD route first and then maybe OME springs to stiffen up the ride but not alter the CV and camber angles. I got most of my ideas and mods from NPORA and I am very thankful for all the info. Back to the garage !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hey ferrariowner123 Go with the Kfabs SFD kit first unless your confident enough to make your own and get it over with, you will kick youself for not just doing it and then think about shock modifications. If you need to do the struts, the Koni insert deal is high quality and easily done and the spacer thing is not necessary unless you do the AC coils. Just follow the directions on the Koni website and drill the bottom and cut the top of the tube and your done. Looking back on it I would go the SFD route first and then maybe OME springs to stiffen up the ride but not alter the CV and camber angles. I got most of my ideas and mods from NPORA and I am very thankful for all the info. Back to the garage !!! I would, but its a daily driver, and if i got a 4" SFD, i'd need new brake lines, new tires (which i just bought) springs, yeah. Too much to be getting horrible mileage. Maybe one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Your Pathfinder looks great and is in great shape for a 96. I want a spare tire hanger. Just think how cool it would look with a 4" lift. The 31's are killing your gas mileage. Our 3.3L engines have 165hp and are geared for the tires stock. Raising the height of the vehicle could only create more air drag co-efficient but would marginally affect pushing the vehicle down the road thus minimally decreasing mileage. The only way to get your axles off the ground is tire size, once that is done it's fender clearance that comes into play ie.wheel articulation and rubbing, thus lifting the vehicle must be done. Your right though, it's expensive but anything worth doing is costly. I have 31's on mine but the gear ratio was affected and caused power and gas mileage decreases for me, thinking of going back to 30's and/or gearing it. Larger tires make you tall geared and make the engine work harder in order to get up to torque curve, like starting out in 2nd and never being able to get to 5th unless on a downhill with the wind at your back sort of feeling. I put steel braided brake lines on all my vehicles and love them for their performance attributes lifting any vehicle just requires longer lines and my brake lines were $90 for front and rear. Well worth the cost IMO Lifting your vehicle and running 30's gives you more articulation clearance in your fender well and dosen't affect your mileage and power very much, but sure dosen't look as cool as big tires. Let's say you were to run 37's on your Pathfinder without gearing properly, you probably couldn't get the thing rolling and would have no power and terrible gas mileage. Gear ratio and tire size 30's= 3.73 and stock 31's=4.10-4.11 33's= 4.56 35/37's=4.88 You get the picture now, if you get huge tires you need to gear accordingly or the motor can't push the tire circumference and negatively affects gas mileage and power band. Lifting the vehicle dosen't affect the mileage very much. It's all cool just keep improving on it is my game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrariowner123 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) I appreciate your input, but several members run 31's with no wear near as high of MPG loss as i have, plus i was suffering since june, well before i put the tires on. I think its the O2 sensors, and when my OBD2 reader finally arrives, i can hopefully get that cleared up. I agree that it would look sick, maybe when i making way more money than i am now and have a 240sx as a daily, i would jump to an SFD, but i describe my income as "Not enough to live on the streets" Im a bit spoiled though. -Kyle EDIT, where did you get Stainless brake lines? Edited November 1, 2012 by ferrariowner123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Got mine 4x4parts.com for $97, I was wrong about the $90 https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/extended-brake-lines-p-5323.html Is yours an automatic or stick? Mines a stick and the 31's really killed the power up hill on the highway, but in 4 low it was fine, so I'm figuring it;s gear ratio. It looks goofy with the 235x75x15's on it but it sure goes better. I did the MAF clean with the Q-tip and alcohol (found a write-up here on NPORA) and that really made a big difference, check engine light went off and perked her up. Really easy to do and you should do it, I felt like an idiot for not doing it sooner. My OBD was reading fuel vapor cannister error and I was just neglecting tearing that thing out and replacing.You can make a bracket that lowers the brake line attachment point in the fender well, might work, but the rear will need to be longer. Get the drawings for SFD blocks here and have someone cut and drill for you or just do it yourself Get strut spacers at http://www.nx4industries.com/r50susp.html with AC coils or get the guy who cuts and drills your blocks to make the 4" strut spacers, which any decent fab shop should be able to do for you, given the drawings and some pics Steering linkage can be blocked or purchased at Kfabs for $165 or salvaged from 1991 honda accord Pahhard drop $75 Brake lines $97 Rear just needs some spacers or perch, some drilling and attaching WJ springs (again salvaged) and shocks Or forget everything I said and get the whole kit from Kfabs but piecing it together would probably be cheaper IMO Wow, after doing the math https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/pathfinder-deluxe-suspension-package-p-1960.html $775 The Krfabs package deal $495 + $210 $1480 install yourself minimum. F%#@ it keep it the way it is and run it like you rented it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I'm confused. I understand that your goal was to prevent the banging sound caused when the factory struts hit the limit of their extension, but I can't figure out how installing strut inserts, which increases the length of the strut, will prevent the CV angles from being excessive when the tires are in the air. How are you able to limit the maximum downtravel to keep the CV angles within their operating range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01silvapathy Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Limiting straps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 You're right XPLORx4, I just wanted to get rid of the top out issue with stock length struts. And the Koni's are rebound adjustable and better all the way around as dampeners. I'm going to do a 2" SFD to get everything back to normal using the AC coils. Hopefully I get 4" total and level out the truck. I used Ac coils front and rear and now I'm raked. I like the pre-runner look so I might cut the rear coils if the SFD dosen't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Just getting in on this topic. Thanks for all the explanation & work you put into this Rocky2. I put the 1" spacers on my struts after the 2" AC lift & I just couldn't get rid of the horrible positive camber! It was ok some times but then other times it would be like 3-4 degrees positive. Because it was intermittent pos camber I'm thinking the camber adjustment bolts had some flaw or something as it wasn't positive all the time so something was moving. Everything was tight & I can't figure out what the problem was, others have fitted the spacer with no problems. I think an SFD is in the future for me although with the lift & the spacer installed the maximum CV angle with the wheel off the ground was about 25 degrees, so still within OEM specs (max CV angle 30 degrees I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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